Anyone here like Dell's????

[Miller88]

It's much easier to be a thinkpad fanboy than a Dell fanboy ... Dell has a billion models of laptops haha.

[Maccess]

Macs, the Powerbook G4 aluminums in particular! That would be the only other laptop brand I'd consider, but I think the engineering edge goes to IBM designed Thinkpads. I'd like to put together an X61 dual-boot XP, Mac OS X

[madkat]

just found this thread, and so it happens a Dell Inspiron 1501 is briefly (couple of weeks) on the same desk with my TR451
let's try a vs.
design: ibm's more serious, business-like design, dell a little childish, but not that bad
build quality: ibm - far better (i disassembled fully the 1501 just to see how its built), but has the flex issue, and the Dell is much more rigid (but almost twice as thick)
materials: dell - cheap plastic everywhere...
"ergonomy" - ibm: better keyboard, better touchpad, separate volume buttons
screen: - dell - much better screen although i hate glossy lcd's... but it has better colours, brightness and contrast
performance: - centrino vs. sempron... obvious results
graphics: dell's ati a little better than ibm's intel
upgradeability: dell - cheaper DDR2, cheaper S-ata drive, "normal" dvd drive (thick type)
I/0: ibm has s-video, LPT port and PCMCIA ... dell only has 2 more usb ports...
battery life: ibm - far better, and upgradeable battery...

overall - tempting to keep the Dell but... making a parallel to the world of automobiles - dell it's like a VW, does enough, does it right and reliably... but a Mercedes-Benz is still a Mercedes-Benz

[ArtShapiro]

A few years ago, I was upgrading from my first Thinkpad, the T20 (still have it!) to a T30. My wife was getting interested in having a laptop, so of course I gave her the T20.

She absolutely despised it. No particular reason; it just didn't seem like something she wanted to use. It wasn't "friendly" in her view.

I bought her a Dell C610 (from the better "Latitude" series) and she instantly took to it and enjoyed it for a few years. It was a little too heavy for her to drag all over creation, so just last year I got her back in the fold with an X61. For some reason, she seems to like the X61, unlike the T20, so everyone is happy. The Dell now sits in my living room for sporadic use. But I don't think anyone could complain about the solid build and usability of the Dell - it even has a trackpoint.

A lady in my hallway at work dropped her Dell (D800), necessitating on-site repair from the warranty. I watched the gentleman take it apart, replace a few parts, and get it back together. Nothing seemed remarkably cryptic - one couldn't say it had been designed to be unrepairable.

I use a Dell desktop here in the office, a Precision 650. Again, it seems decent - dead quiet, reliable, and quite OK for my needs. I miss the ease of updating that IBM/Lenovo provide, as updating both the desktop and the laptop takes a lot of manual searching and explicit user action. But as far as being "good" machines, I can't complain.

Art

[dr_st]

The thing is - DELL, like HP, like Fujitsu, Like Toshiba, etc... - all have consumer lines and business lines.

Most of the time people bash any of the aforementioned companies in terms of quality, durability, serviceability, etc, they refer to their consumer lines.

The quality and feature sets of the business lines (not surprisingly) is close to those of the Thinkpads. So is the price.

In the past, when Thinkpad were IBM, IBM only made business laptops. But nowadays, Lenovo has several cheaper "consumer-grade" series as well (the 3000, the Ideapad).

So when comparing Lenovo to DELL, or to any other manufacturer, you need to compare apples to apples, oranges to oranges. And you will find out that they are not so far apart. No sense of saying that the Thinkpad W500 is cooler than the DELL Inspiron 1525. Well, duh. Compare it to a Precision.

With that said, I still find certain features on Thinkpads better suited for me than on others.

For instance - trackpoint. DELL/HP have one on their business lines, but it is not as good. The HP Compaq 8510p for example, being the cool model it is, has sunken trackpoint cap which is hard to reach, and horrendously uncomfortable trackpoint buttons.

Also, the keyboard layout. HP moved away from the classic arrangement of the 6 navigation keys in 2 lines of 3, and now sticks them along the right edge of the keyboard. I don't like it.

[TheRedFox]

I came really close to buying a dell Latitude as a used laptop (D400, I think. I wanted an ultraportable). However, after research, I realized that Dells (at least the older ones) don't get particularly good battery life, and I liked the idea that I could theoretically get 8h w/ the X31 (assuming that I later bought an extended life battery), I suppose more realistically it'd be 6 or 7, but that'd still be pretty amazing. currently get about 4.5 w/ the default 6 cell battery (a little tweaking necessary), but that's still plenty good. there were other reasons to get the thinkpad, too. it's a solidly build notebook
on the other hand, I would love a Panasonic R or T series, but compared to used thinkpads, they are much expensive.

[pianowizard]

So when comparing Lenovo to DELL, or to any other manufacturer, you need to compare apples to apples, oranges to oranges. And you will find out that they are not so far apart. No sense of saying that the Thinkpad W500 is cooler than the DELL Inspiron 1525. Well, duh.

I made the most shocking discovery yesterday at my university's computer store. They sell both Thinkpads and Dell laptops and I go there every now and then to play with them. On display yesterday were three Thinkpads: a T400, a T500, and an X200 tablet. Several feet away were two Dells: an Inspiron 1420, and a Latitude D620. I was already familiar with the excellent Latitude, so I only played with the other four laptops, which were all new to me. One of them was far more solidly built than the rest: the Dell Inspiron 1420! I had expected the T400 and T500 to be as well made as the previous generation of Thinkpads (i.e. the T6* and the R6*), but I was dead wrong. I found lots of flex all over the place, whereas the Inspiron 1420 felt like a tank. Think about it, the cheapest consumer-grade Dell laptop is higher quality than Lenovo's flagship T-series Thinkpads! The X200 tablet did feel sturdier than the T400 and T500, but I was put off by how big it is. It's supposed to be a 12.1" ultraportable, but it looked and felt as big as my 14.1" T42. Like I've said at least five times in other threads, this is *not* because of the widescreen per se -- a 16:10 12.1" screen actually has a smaller surface area than a 4:3 12.1" screen -- but because Lenovo made the display bezel so disgustingly large. There is only one good thing about this bizarre trend of bezels getting thicker: it makes my 240Z (which has a thick bezel) look modern!

Even before this experience, I was already leaning toward switching from Thinkpads to Dells and HPs because it's good to buy American products in these tough economic times, even though I still believed that Thinkpads were slightly better in quality. But now, I have completely made up my mind. Too bad there aren't Dell and HP forums as fun as this one!

(BTW, the computer store also had a Dell Mini 9 on display and I played with it for a really long time, but I didn't mention it above since it's a netbook rather than a laptop. The Mini 9 is sooooo cute! But I'm not interested in buying one because I'm waiting for the HP Mini 2140 netbook with 10.1" 1366x768.)

[Rich.Carpenter]

My wife is using a Dell Inspiron 6000D that I bought about 3.5 years ago. It's still working fine. For her needs, I would consider buying Dell again. Personally, I find them a bit heavier and bulkier than they need to be and a bit lesser-featured than they could be. Maybe the Latitude line would be better, but little things like their decision to design their expansion bay to accept hard drives of only the 1.8" variety still just makes me scratch my head. Even the Latitude line appears to be trying to cater too much to the mainstream user, and don't get me started on the scalloped lid design of the new Precisions.

I've always preferred ThinkPads though, largely due to their classic styling and unsurpassed keyboard and TrackPoint.

[dr_st]

One of them was far more solidly built than the rest: the Dell Inspiron 1420! I had expected the T400 and T500 to be as well made as the previous generation of Thinkpads (i.e. the T6* and the R6*), but I was dead wrong. I found lots of flex all over the place, whereas the Inspiron 1420 felt like a tank. Think about it, the cheapest consumer-grade Dell laptop is higher quality than Lenovo's flagship T-series Thinkpads!

Just because something is made out of thick unbending plastic, does not make it higher quality. Let's see how it survives a drop first.

The X200 tablet did feel sturdier than the T400 and T500, but I was put off by how big it is. It's supposed to be a 12.1" ultraportable, but it looked and felt as big as my 14.1" T42. Like I've said at least five times in other threads, this is *not* because of the widescreen per se -- a 16:10 12.1" screen actually has a smaller surface area than a 4:3 12.1" screen -- but because Lenovo made the display bezel so disgustingly large.

Totally. I just can't find any good excuses for this weird design. Things like "it's better for the wireless antenna", "it's better for your LCD", "it's better for your mental health", etc I don't find good enough excuses.

Even before this experience, I was already leaning toward switching from Thinkpads to Dells and HPs because it's good to buy American products in these tough economic times, even though I still believed that Thinkpads were slightly better in quality. But now, I have completely made up my mind. Too bad there aren't Dell and HP forums as fun as this one!

"American" products still assembled in Malaysia, China, Mexico, anywhere but the US... Just because the profits are flowing to a US-based company, does not mean it's actually helping the economy, since this company still ships most of its jobs overseas. That's not the reason to buy a DELL/HP, IMO. I can find plenty of other reasons, though, and I too start to like their latest offerings more and more, and the latest Lenovo offerings less and less. Basically only the keyboard/trackpoint (the ones I played with on DELL/HP did not quite compare) are what still keeping me from proclaiming "the king is dead, long live the king"...

[KristianJ]

(BTW, the computer store also had a Dell Mini 9 on display and I played with it for a really long time, but I didn't mention it above since it's a netbook rather than a laptop. The Mini 9 is sooooo cute! But I'm not interested in buying one because I'm waiting for the HP Mini 2140 netbook with 10.1" 1366x768.)

My sister's thinking of buying a Mini 9 for her university studies. I haven't really had the chance to play with netbooks since my 2 weeks with the original EEE, but if she does decide to purchase one, it will be interesting to see how well they work and whether or not I'd be able to cope with a 1024x600 resolution. As for the Mini 2140, I've read that Australia will get that higher res model later in the year - the only one for sale at the moment here has a 1024x576 LCD.

EDIT: Kwoon, I've read that the forthcoming Mini 10 will eventually have a 1366x768 LCD (at least in Australia...):

http://www.cnet.com.au/laptops/laptops/ ... 209,00.htm

[pianowizard]

Just because something is made out of thick unbending plastic, does not make it higher quality. Let's see how it survives a drop first.

I agree that under certain circumstances, a Thinkpad might still be more resilient than an Inspiron, e.g. when the laptop is dropped several feet, or when the laptop is smashed with a hammer. But I never do these things to my computers, so I am more concerned about other, less extreme circumstances, such as how the laptop feels when I rest my writsts on the palmrest, or when I put the laptop into a carrying bag. The Inspiron that I tested felt much better in these situations.

"American" products still assembled in Malaysia, China, Mexico, anywhere but the US... Just because the profits are flowing to a US-based company, does not mean it's actually helping the economy, since this company still ships most of its jobs overseas.

True, it doesn't only help the U.S., but it has to help the U.S. economy more than if I buy Lenovo Thinkpads. It certainly helps the Chinese government (which owns close to one third of Lenovo's stocks) less, which alone is a good reason to buy Dell/HP. But like you said, there are many other reasons to buy these brands nowadays.

As for the Mini 2140, I've read that Australia will get that higher res model later in the year - the only one for sale at the moment here has a 1024x576 LCD.

It's the same in the States.

EDIT: Kwoon, I've read that the forthcoming Mini 10 will eventually have a 1366x768 LCD (at least in Australia...):

Wow, that's exciting news! That means I'll have two models to choose from. I bet Lenovo, Acer etc. will also have netbooks with 1366x768, but I'm not interested in those brands.

[Marin85]

It certainly helps the Chinese government (which owns close to one third of Lenovo's stocks) less, which alone is a good reason to buy Dell/HP.

Excuse me for going off topic, but may I ask what is all that about the Chinese government? Many parts of the dozens of the laptops you seem to have possessed are probably produced in factories of which the "Chinese government" owns certain share. Even if the government changes, those stocks will, with high probability, remain in possession of the next government, in other words, it´s not the government that owns Lenovo shares (in fact, that would be illegal), but the state, PRC. I can understand that you don´t like the new design or build quality of ThinkPads, but I fail to understand the whole logic behind *not supporting China* Don´t buy a Bentley because it´s owned by VW Group, of which Lower Saxony (state in Germany) possesses significant share... If you don´t like the Chinese government for political reasons, buying or not buying Lenovo laptops doesn´t concern the government even to the smallest degree, it concerns the state...

On a second thought, without the *Chinese government* there would have been probably no Lenovo, no T60, no X200t, no W700, no one to buy the ThinkPad line from IBM and the ThinkPad brand would have been shut down...

[JaneL]

Both of you knock it off.

[TheRedFox]

apparently quite a few of the newer model thinkpads pass military standards or something. I saw it in another thread.

[jplock]

My T61 is my first Thinkpad. I also own a Dell Inspiron 8200 and I have used Dell Latitude D620 and D630 at work. I Think the quality on the D620 and D630 is comparable to the T61. Also The Inspiron 8200 is easy to disassemble and repair. I hope the T61 is that way too, it is still uder warranty so I don't dare take it apart.
jplock

[dr_st]

I agree that under certain circumstances, a Thinkpad might still be more resilient than an Inspiron, e.g. when the laptop is dropped several feet, or when the laptop is smashed with a hammer. But I never do these things to my computers, so I am more concerned about other, less extreme circumstances, such as how the laptop feels when I rest my writsts on the palmrest, or when I put the laptop into a carrying bag. The Inspiron that I tested felt much better in these situations.

I would happily test one myself.

These "consumer" laptops often feel like they are solid, because of the thick bases and unbending palmrests, but will not necessarily fair better over time, in a bag or outside of it... Typically the base is strong, but the LCD lid is thin and flimsy, so if squeezed in a backpack, the LCD, which is the most delicate component of the exterior, still gets most of the punishment.

The latest Thinkpads have rollcages in the LCD lid and the base which make them "strong where it matters", as they say. The LCD rollcage seems to make a difference for 14" models, less or none at all for 15", since their lids have already been super thick even in the T4x era.

Just some thoughts...

[TheRedFox]

also if a computer is provided with less than sufficient cooling, it probably won't last as long as one that is provided with very sufficient cooling.

[i-SnipeZ]

My history of computers is as follows:

Compaq Persario (1997)
IBM Thinkpad 385cd (1999)
IBM Thinkpad T22 (2002)
IBM Thinkpad T23 (2003)
Dell Diminsion 4600 (2003)
Dell Inspiron 1300 (2005)
Dell Dimension XPS 410 (2006)
IBM Thinkpad T43 (2006)
Apple Powerbook G4 (2006)
Lenovo Thinkpad T61 (2009)

Of all these the only ones alive are all the Thinkpads, the XPS, and the Powerbook which is just now starting to die, and the XPS is wearing down quikly with hardware failures about every week or so now. The Thinkpads are still all nice and sturdy and even after years and years of use the 385 still clicks along like new, but the CD drive is busted, so I need to get a new one. In all, ill probably never buy anything but IBM/Lenovo anymore, but I did enjoy the Inspiron 1300/B130, it was fast, light, sturdy, but giant and the screen was pretty bleck.

[pianowizard]

As for the Mini 2140, I've read that Australia will get that higher res model later in the year - the only one for sale at the moment here has a 1024x576 LCD.

Kristian, the 1366x768 option just appeared on hp.com for the Mini 2140. The good news is it costs only $25US more than the lousy 1024x576 LCD!

EDIT: Kwoon, I've read that the forthcoming Mini 10 will eventually have a 1366x768 LCD (at least in Australia...):

I compared the specs of the Dell Mini 10 with the HP 2140. Looks like the Mini 10 only has 1GB of RAM that is not upgradeable; it's 0.24 lb heavier; its footprint is larger; and it's slightly thicker. So, I've made up my mind to get the HP 2140, to replace my Thinkpad 240Z. It's simply the best netbook out there. On the other hand, in the 17" laptop category, Dell's Vostro 1720 is better than HP's offerings, so Dell will get my business too!

[archer6]

The biggest surprise in owning a Dell is how expensive they are.

While cheap to buy, they break down so much and are built with only average grade components, therefore they require an ongoing investment of money to keep them functioning. I've owned several of the different laptop models from Dell, as I have of other manufacturers, along with my ThinkPads. In the end (say 2 or 3 years) the overall cost is far greater than a ThinkPad. If falls into the "you get what you pay for " category. In addition, over the last few years as Lenovo has offered less expensive models in the form of the R series and SL series there is absolutely no reason to buy a Dell, only to have to continually spend money to keep it alive.

Cheers...

[pianowizard]

While cheap to buy, they break down so much and are built with only average grade components, therefore they require an ongoing investment of money to keep them functioning.

I don't know how you use your laptops or which models of Dell laptops you've owned. I've owned only two Dell laptops, both of them Inspirons, so they were supposed to be crappy. I kept the first (Inspiron 8200) for 3.5 years and the second (Inspiron 700m) for 2 years, during which I used them almost everyday. Neither had any issues, not even the hinges. I've owned >>40 Thinkpads and have kept only one of them (a 600E) for a comparable duration (3 years), which gives you an idea of how well these Inspirons performed and how much I liked them. When I sold these Inspirons, both still looked mint.

EDIT: I just found PCMag's latest laptop survey. For newer models, Dell and Sony actually get higher scores than Lenovo, though the difference isn't huge.

[archer6]

I don't know how you use your laptops or which models of Dell laptops you've owned.

I use them to play basketball.
Just kidding....

And I'm not bashing Dell or being critical I'm truly not, simply reporting my experiences. If I disliked them I would not have purchased the ones that I did (Inspiron 1521, XPS 1330, Latitude D630 & E6400). I'm very open minded when it comes to laptops as I'm a mobile computing enthusiast, and while I've used ThinkPads as my main laptop for years, I also buy many other brands and models just to keep up on what the competition is doing, and frankly for the fun of it. Having owned several HP's, a mix of models which is similar to the Dells, I've simply had much better service from them. And I'm not talking about durability as I'm really careful with all my high tech equipment. Yet I would not choose either over a ThinkPad. That of course is nothing more than my personal opinion.

Cheers...

[KristianJ]

Kristian, the 1366x768 option just appeared on hp.com for the Mini 2140. The good news is it costs only $25US more than the lousy 1024x576 LCD!

I'll have to check that out. My sister's rather keen on an artsy version of the Mini 1000 (which I think looks awful aesthetically), so if I can find when the 1366x768 version of the 2140 gets here, I'll try and persuade her onto that. I think she should do fine with the higher res, since she used my old UXGA equipped T42p for several months without hassles.

[Elwyn]

Well, I've recently had a Dell GX280 to use for about a year as a desktop machine. It was surprisingly quiet and a pretty fast computer. Could manage most things I did and in a way I still miss the speed. But I did have 2Gb of Ram and 1TB Hdd space

That machine went to my sister who needed it more than I did and it's doing a sterling job. The other friends I know who use them (as I got a bunch together) found them excellent too, apart from one who really should have bought a gaming machine from the off...

For Dell Laptop's I've found they are prone to crashing in XP and requiring reinstallations....

[fuscob]

I can't vouch for the laptops or the consumer machines (don't have much experience with them), but all of the business desktops since the GX270 have been pretty rock solid. I especially like the newest models, and I actually own two myself (OptiPlex 755 and OptiPlex 760).

[Performa636CD]

No, and I've always acted all snooty to those who would buy them. But after reading some opinions here maybe Dell's aren't so bad after all.

[Performa636CD]

Some good points on this thread.....Keep them coming.

But since were compairing laptops , it brings me to a very good question to as here....

What do you think is a better laptop then a Thinkpad??

Say if you had a $4000.00 budget for a laptop.
You wanted a nice , fast,long battery life,about 6lbs,good video card,ect.What would you get?

I believe that only the Panasonic ToughBooks are better than the ThinkPads. I think the Apple Macbooks and Macbooks Pros are on par with ThinkPads...and no, they don't get much credit for looking nicer than ThinkPads, as I believe in function over form.

[dr_st]

The Toughbooks are nicer than Thinkpads in some ways, but not in all... Looks aside (since it's opinion mostly), I would really miss the trackpoint on a Toughbook, and the keyboard is not up to par with the Thinkpad keyboard too, both layout and feel. The same things would bother me on a Mac, and the Mac loses even more points due to not being as modular and easy for parts replacement/upgrade.

[Performa636CD]

The Toughbooks are nicer than Thinkpads in some ways, but not in all... Looks aside (since it's opinion mostly), I would really miss the trackpoint on a Toughbook, and the keyboard is not up to par with the Thinkpad keyboard too, both layout and feel. The same things would bother me on a Mac, and the Mac loses even more points due to not being as modular and easy for parts replacement/upgrade.

Reliability is the most important characteristic I look for a in a laptop, with longevity (being able to handle future applications, operating systems, etc.) being a close second.

[TTY]

Toughbooks versus ThinkPads - last time i looked into this, which was approximately 1.5 years ago, one difference between them was: on ThinkPads, you can set charge level thresholds any way you want to. Toughbooks have only very limited freedom here, you could choose whether the battery shall start charging at 95% and stop at 100% or start charging at 75% and stop at 80%. Also in this respect, ThinkPads are superior.