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When are they going to include an option for a Windows Key??

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mina
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When are they going to include an option for a Windows Key??

#1 Post by mina » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:34 am

PPllllleeeeeaaaasssseeee IBM.
Put a Windows key on those Thinkpads! Or at least give us an option.
Also, can you make the mouse drivers for the Ultranav etc. run in Driver mode plz!
Every time I get an application like IE or Lotus Notes deciding to Hang for a while, My mouse cursor freezes till that app comes back or till I kill that app. I suspect it's because the ultranav stuff runs in Usermode rather than as a driver. I've never had this prob with MSFT drivers etc.

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#2 Post by BillMorrow » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:45 am

try ctrl-esc

:)
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#3 Post by benplaut » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:13 am

try KeyTweak... it edits the registry so there isn't a program running in the background all the time. unfortunately, i can't remap "Access IBM"...

i use "Insert" (i really don't see any point to that button :? ) as my windows button, works like a charm.

i want to get some sticker paper and print out a windows logo to put on it... but havn't had the time :evil:
--<<(({{[[Ben Plaut]]}}))>>--

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mina
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None are good anough...

#4 Post by mina » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:29 am

I've used Remap Key to do the registry thinggy. It's a pain cos you lose the original button. I use all those buttons quite often!

Ctrl+esc is fine to bring up the task menu, but you can't do:
Win+E etc. Those user mode utilities are pretty crappy. i used the IBM one. It's average. You can't replace a real key. IBM, just put one in!
Worst thing is... I also have an A31p, which has 6 custom buttons down the left side which cannot be programmed usnig remap KEy as they're not part of the standard keys on the keyboard. They're next to useless (multimedia type keys etc.) as compared to keys I use very often.
The context menu key isn't a bit deal to miss out on, but the Windows Key is really annoying to do without!

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#5 Post by JaneL » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:35 am

Hopefully, never. The keyboard layout is perfect as is.
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#6 Post by Bob Collins » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:55 am

As I recall someone here also noted a Windows logo key costs each manufacturer to place one on each keyboard. They would have to pay a royalty of some amount to Micrisoft, so why do it. Use the key tweak or key mapping thing to remap the right Alternate key to be the 'windows' key.
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Re: When are they going to include an option for a Windows K

#7 Post by jeroenp » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:22 pm

mina wrote:PPllllleeeeeaaaasssseeee IBM.
Put a Windows key on those Thinkpads! Or at least give us an option.
Get remapkey from Microsoft.
I think it is in a couple of the Windows Resource Kits you can download from their site.

an url is here:
http://www.petri.co.il/download_free_reskit_tools.htm

With that, map your caps-lock to the Windows key, and you'll never want anythingt different.
--jeroen

ThinkPad T42p (2373Q1U): 2.1Ghz, 2Gb, 15" UXGA, ATi Mobile Fire GL T2 128Mb, 2x100Gb 7200rpm, IBM a/b/g
ThinkPad A21p (2629H2U): 850Mhz, 512MB, 15" UXGA, ATi Mobility M3 16, 80Gb 4200rpm, Thomson b/g

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#8 Post by benplaut » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:21 pm

sometimes i use my capslock... so i remapped my insert key... no use for it whatsoever... :)

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#9 Post by jerryci » Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:02 pm

Mina - you don't understand that there are many Thinkpad users that don't want the "Windows Key". One important reason I bought my TP was because it omitted junk like that useless key that made the adjacent keys smaller or the touchpad, which is slower and less precise than the trackpoint. When those features are added, the TP is closer to a Dell, HP, Toshiba, or other generic machine. As previously mentioned, the best solution is "Ctrl - Esc". It takes about 1 minute of practice to master, it is 100% reliable, and it won't mess up any of your software.

Jerry C.

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#10 Post by jeroenp » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:59 pm

jerryci wrote:As previously mentioned, the best solution is "Ctrl - Esc". It takes about 1 minute of practice to master, it is 100% reliable, and it won't mess up any of your software.
There is no best solution, as solutions differ for everyone and might even vary by usage.

Ctrl-Esc does not allow you to do everything you can do with the Windows-key in an easy way. For instance Windows-Pause (which brings up the system properties).

There are things you can't do with the Windows-key in an easy way too, like Ctrl-Esc-Shift, that bring up the task manager.

I do agree with you that large keys are important, that's why I like the thinkpad keyboards so much. To my impression, the 15-inch models have larger keyboards than the 14-inch models, so that is what I like most.

Since I never use the caps-lock key, that is why I remapped it. Other people I know have remapped PrtSc or ScrLk or other keys they never use.
--jeroen

ThinkPad T42p (2373Q1U): 2.1Ghz, 2Gb, 15" UXGA, ATi Mobile Fire GL T2 128Mb, 2x100Gb 7200rpm, IBM a/b/g
ThinkPad A21p (2629H2U): 850Mhz, 512MB, 15" UXGA, ATi Mobility M3 16, 80Gb 4200rpm, Thomson b/g

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#11 Post by jerryci » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:59 pm

Jeroen, actually I NEVER use "ctrl-esc". AFAIK there is absolutely no reason for the "windows key" because it's function can be so easily duplicated many other ways. It was merely a marketing gimmick that MS came up with to put their icon on the keys. You mentioned the Task Manager function. I constantly use that function and I bring it up with "ctrl-alt-del". To repeat: Anything done with the "windows key" is easily and simply done another way. MS, however, does love the fact that so many people have been brainwashed into thinking that a special MS key is important. I hope I don't sound too cynical, but on this issue, I guess I am. If IBM ever did go to the keyboards and pointers that others use, I would then have little reason to choose IBM over E-machines, Fujitsu, or Toshiba. :wink: I would guess that you and I agree for the most part, but Mina probably isn't aware of the advantages of the TP design.

BTW, I hope a tsunami never hits the Netherlands. That must be a worst case secenario. :shock:

Jerry C.

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#12 Post by jjackson02 » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:45 pm

nonny wrote:Hopefully, never. The keyboard layout is perfect as is.
I agree... I'm very happy with the key layout.
Slán

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#13 Post by Elhabash » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:24 pm

Use of Win key:

from http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=301583
Microsoft Natural Keyboard Shortcuts
• Windows Logo (Display or hide the Start menu)
• Windows Logo+BREAK (Display the System Properties dialog box)
• Windows Logo+D (Display the desktop)
• Windows Logo+M (Minimize all of the windows)
• Windows Logo+SHIFT+M (Restore the minimized windows)
• Windows Logo+E (Open My Computer)
• Windows Logo+F (Search for a file or a folder)
• CTRL+Windows Logo+F (Search for computers)
• Windows Logo+F1 (Display Windows Help)
• Windows Logo+ L (Lock the keyboard)
• Windows Logo+R (Open the Run dialog box)
• Windows Logo+U (Open Utility Manager)
Can you do all this as conveniently otherwise? BUT you can for instance remap the Access IBM key. I forgot the link for the utility, but it's called the "ThinkPad Button Customiser". Sure, not as conveniently located as the WIN key, but it should work.

My problem is now that when I use other computers, I keep hitting the Win key when I need Ctrl...
T61p, Win7

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#14 Post by jeroenp » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:38 am

Elhabash wrote:Use of Win key:
from http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=301583
Finally someone who understands the real use of the Windows keys :-)
Elhabash wrote: My problem is now that when I use other computers, I keep hitting the Win key when I need Ctrl...
Keyboards will change, and always depend on form factors.
Keyboard layouts distinctions, even within form factors, will make different groups of people happy or sad.
Changing from one layout to the other takes some time to get adjusted to.
That's how it has been, and how it always will be.
Same for mice, and mice equivalents like touch-pads, track-points, etc.

Some history:
MF II keyboard layouts
XT keyboard layouts
AT versus PS/2 or MF keyboards
general keyboard info
some keyboard history

What people in general do not like about laptop keyboards:
  1. mechanics
  2. placement of the Fn-key
  3. keys are too tiny
  4. placement of navigation keys
  5. placement (if any) of the windows keys
Personally, I think the thinkpads have a good mix between mechanics, layout and mice equivalents.
I have replaced the casp-lock behaviour with the Windows key behaviour, though I can imagine others opt for a different solution or no solution at all.
--jeroen

ThinkPad T42p (2373Q1U): 2.1Ghz, 2Gb, 15" UXGA, ATi Mobile Fire GL T2 128Mb, 2x100Gb 7200rpm, IBM a/b/g
ThinkPad A21p (2629H2U): 850Mhz, 512MB, 15" UXGA, ATi Mobility M3 16, 80Gb 4200rpm, Thomson b/g

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#15 Post by Kenn » Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:10 am

When I was a gamer back in the Win95 days, hitting the windows key would freeze or crash the game as it tried to switch back into Windows...so I took a screwdriver and removed the key.

Nowadays, I've grown to love the Windows key. It's useless by itself, but having Win-R to run commands, Win-L to lock, and Win, U to shut down saves me a trip to the mouse, which is great. IMO, every function should have a hotkey assigned to it :)

I mapped my Windows key using Keytweak - it changes the key mapping in the registry, and doesn't hog system resources in the background. I first mapped the Windows key to right-ctrl, but found out I need it for Photoshop. Then I mapped it to Right-Alt, but I used that in PS as well. Then I tried right-Shift, but I use that occasionally as well (and sometimes brush it when hitting Enter)!! So in desparation, I finally moved it to Web-Forward, where it has a perfect balance of unobtrusiveness and accessibility.
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T42 (2374-3VU): 1.7GHz/512MB, 14.1"SXGA+, DVD-RW, 80GB, 2200b/g.

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#16 Post by sugo » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:00 am

Keytweak is fantastic. Caps lock is also a good candidate for remap if you don't use it.

I remapped Right Alt as Windows key, Web backward as Home and Web forward as End. If you are a programmer you can probably tell how it can be *very* handy.

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#17 Post by jeroenp » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:26 am

sugo wrote:Keytweak is fantastic.
I just tried this, and it really is much better than ReMapKey that I used before, especially because it allows you to remap those 'multi-media' keys in addition to regular keys.

You can download Keytweak here: http://webpages.charter.net/krumsick/
--jeroen

ThinkPad T42p (2373Q1U): 2.1Ghz, 2Gb, 15" UXGA, ATi Mobile Fire GL T2 128Mb, 2x100Gb 7200rpm, IBM a/b/g
ThinkPad A21p (2629H2U): 850Mhz, 512MB, 15" UXGA, ATi Mobility M3 16, 80Gb 4200rpm, Thomson b/g

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#18 Post by stgreek » Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:18 am

Let's not forget the fact that a significant percentage of Thinkpad users are NOT Windows users, but Linux/Unix or OS/2 users....To us, the Win key is a nuisance and since you can replicate it but we cant get rid of it, I believe it is better as it is...

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#19 Post by jeroenp » Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:56 pm

stgreek wrote:Let's not forget the fact that a significant percentage of Thinkpad users are NOT Windows users, but Linux/Unix or OS/2 users....To us, the Win key is a nuisance and since you can replicate it but we cant get rid of it, I believe it is better as it is...
You probably won't believe it, but I have been running OS/2 and am still running Linux on various types of boxes.
With those, it is often *easier* to do fancy stuff with keyboard scan-codes than with Windows!
--jeroen

ThinkPad T42p (2373Q1U): 2.1Ghz, 2Gb, 15" UXGA, ATi Mobile Fire GL T2 128Mb, 2x100Gb 7200rpm, IBM a/b/g
ThinkPad A21p (2629H2U): 850Mhz, 512MB, 15" UXGA, ATi Mobility M3 16, 80Gb 4200rpm, Thomson b/g

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#20 Post by benz » Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:11 pm

I think that the Thinkpad keyboard layout is one step short of perfect - if only they would move that Fn key inwards a little, like between the Alt and Space Bar, and shift the Ctrl key out there.....that's the standard for external keyboards, and honestly, how often do you use the Fn key as compared to the Ctrl key? For me, it is cramping to use the left Ctrl, since I have pretty big hands.

For the record, I used the keyboard customizer to map right Alt to the Windows key....and a small utility called WinKey to customize Win+__ combinations. This has been flawless.
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