Would YOU be p***** off if this happened to you?

Message

tselling · #31 Post by **tselling** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:22 pm

Call the seller again and tell them you want the item you won in the auction or a refund for the full purchase price. You may be able to refuse shipment which saves on return shipping prices. Be very firm with the seller but polite. Tell them you will file a complaint with Ebay for suspicious activity since they are sending a significantly misrepresented item: http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/i ... ction.html

You can also open a SquareTrade complaint as that sometimes gets their attention. And your communication is documented thru an external party.

csv96 · #32 Post by **csv96** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:56 pm

Not that there's any excuse, but my guess is that the customer service representative who performed the bait-and-switch just assumed that all T40's are the same. There's probably only a small percentage of the population (e.g. those of us on this forum) that know that there are a 100 different T40 series models ranging in price from $1000 to $4500.

XCoalMiner · #33 Post by **XCoalMiner** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:17 pm

lilserenity wrote:Except I am one of the minority who has got taken for a ride.

I'll concede that you are in the minority. But, to be cynical, that merely means the rate of fradulent activity hasn't reached 50%, yet.

The website fatwallet.com has forums that cover personal finance, consumerism, kind of a consumer reports but more hard nosed and edgier. It's accepted as common knowledge on there that eBay is full of scams and scam artists. A recent eye-opening posting talked about a website where the scammers buy and sell their tools of the trade. Take a look: http://forum.carderplanet.cc/index.php?showforum=44, it's an eye opening read.

Some recent posts (in the past week) on there are for:

- Someone wanting to buy UPS or FedEX uniforms
- Someone selling perfect AMEX Green Cards (blanks)
- pinhead magstripe card reader for sale,
- Paypal accounts for sale, Verified, inactive / Verified, active, with email access...
- Need a Drivers License Number???
- How to crack Hotmail passwords.
- need to get a ebay sellers acct Canadian (prefered) but blah blah blah ... Someone's Reply: If the items you are selling were Illegally obtained, then I would NOT use a PayPal account that had myREAL info on it

And if this doesn't cause you to think twice, go to the russian language forums (the majority of the forums there), run theM through a translator, and see what you think.

Using eBay is like going to a casino to gamble. When you combine eBay, a foreign country, and a third-party pay service (PayPal, Western Union), it's almost guaranteed to be a scam.

#34 Post by **JaneL** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:33 pm

>When you combine eBay, a foreign country, and a third-party pay service (PayPal, Western Union), it's almost guaranteed to be a scam.
>

Ahh... doesn't eBay own PayPal?

G-Man · #35 Post by **G-Man** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:47 pm

Yep, Ebay has bought PayPal for $1.5 billion nearly two years ago.

Regards,
G-Man

lilserenity · #36 Post by **lilserenity** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:21 am

nonny wrote:>When you combine eBay, a foreign country, and a third-party pay service (PayPal, Western Union), it's almost guaranteed to be a scam.
>

Ahh... doesn't eBay own PayPal?

I concede that I will never use eBay again for larger purchases and stick to the UK next time, too much hassle.

Overall my eBay experience has been a good one, but this negates that completely.

Vicky

XCoalMiner · #37 Post by **XCoalMiner** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:10 am

nonny wrote:Ahh... doesn't eBay own PayPal?

Yes, they do.

It's a huge scam that eBay let's these things go on, ... or maybe it's in their financial interest to let these things go on.

DrGrafix · #38 Post by **DrGrafix** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:50 am

Wow...

I've been reading the three pages of Vicky's rant and I was about to say "Bait & Switch" but James beat me to it. Vicky, there's a lot of good advice in these three pages, but the one thing you have to do is be strong, and refuse that shipment. Once it's in your hands and you've opened that package, they could exploit that and say that you accepted the replacement unit.

I'm a trusting soul too. I've sold all kinds of merchandise (values from dollars to several thousand) over the past few years on eBay and I've never tricked anyone, and it paid off with a 100% positive feedback. Now that I'm hearing this story, I'm losing faith in supposed "power sellers" and places that might have IBM Partner associated with their names.

Ironically, I'm in the market for a new T-something which would be a minimum of a T30 and could be a T4x so I'm not jumping on just anything and figured I'd just keep my eyes and ears tuned to eBay and even here to see what units are available. Having had a T21 with SXGA+ I could never go back to 1024 X 768 because I too am imersed in graphics.

Somehow, refuse that machine. I think you have a legitimate beef.

Mike

lilserenity · #39 Post by **lilserenity** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:48 am

DrGrafix wrote:Wow...

I've been reading the three pages of Vicky's rant and I was about to say "Bait & Switch" but James beat me to it. Vicky, there's a lot of good advice in these three pages, but the one thing you have to do is be strong, and refuse that shipment. Once it's in your hands and you've opened that package, they could exploit that and say that you accepted the replacement unit.

The package will not even be opened, and may even get my friend Lorre to reject it, depends on the response I get from PM tonight. (or afternoon in the USA) I have given them till 6.30pm GMT that's 12.30pm in NYC; 2 and a half hours afer they open to reply to the email to give me a satisfactory explanation, response and plan of action.

Failing this I shall be phoning again in some disgust (but remaining calm and rational). I think two and half hours is enough for an organisation which on its about me page claims:

"We guarantee that this item will arrive as described in this auction."

Bull [censored] [censored]. They've sent me a lesser refurb. Strike One.

"All buyers must provide us with a method of payment within 3 days of the ended auction"

Yep I did. 6 days to pay, 3 of which were either a weekend day or a national holiday, quite tricky to pay.... 3 working days and I paid. Not bad for arranging all this over some thousand miles.

Strike Two.

Just need my Third Strike now

DrGrafix wrote:I'm a trusting soul too. I've sold all kinds of merchandise (values from dollars to several thousand) over the past few years on eBay and I've never tricked anyone, and it paid off with a 100% positive feedback. Now that I'm hearing this story, I'm losing faith in supposed "power sellers" and places that might have IBM Partner associated with their names.

Precisely, I looked at the feedback, it looked glowing. Power Seller, IBM partner, couldn't go wrong... HAHAHAHAHA.

Though feedback has been left for this item:

"IBM admits bad spec error; pmnyc001 can't deliver as advertised; but they tried."

I'm not sure about the bad spec bit but this is just one example of someone buying goods that weren't as they were described.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3479710156 - thats the item related to that feedback, almost identical to the one I should of been getting.

DrGrafix wrote:Ironically, I'm in the market for a new T-something which would be a minimum of a T30 and could be a T4x so I'm not jumping on just anything and figured I'd just keep my eyes and ears tuned to eBay and even here to see what units are available. Having had a T21 with SXGA+ I could never go back to 1024 X 768 because I too am imersed in graphics.

Indeed, you know what what I mean then when I say that XGA is fine for photoshop but hardly optimal, SXGA makes working on large images (6000x6000 or more) a lot easier with less panning around and better zoom control. I can evidently work with XGA but it's not an optimal situation.

DrGrafix wrote:Somehow, refuse that machine. I think you have a legitimate beef.

I shall know where I stand on this around 6.30pm GMT.

It will be most interesting.

Vicky

#40 Post by **JaneL** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:57 am

Vicky,

I know you're upset, but please stop cursing in this forum. Many of us follow the forum from work, and foul language can get us into trouble as quickly as the pictures from last week.

Thanks!

lilserenity · #41 Post by **lilserenity** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:14 am

I do apologise, I did not mean to cause offence, or create problems. Just get carried away with myself and angry.

I'll go eat some soap.

Vicky

tyipengr · #42 Post by **tyipengr** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 pm

I have seen these guys on Ebay. They are much like alot of the other unscrupulous Thinkpad sellers who like to hide the word "Remanufactured" in the HUGE blob of text they attach at the bottom of the page and stick the word "IBM sealed box" in the the place of refurb.

Like everyone else has said reject the package. If you accept it you open up a whole new can of worms with them.

They can..
1. Refuse to take it back.
2. Claim that you broke it then shipped it back and charge you for repairs.
3. Something worse that I can't think of because I am just not wicked enough to contemplate these things...

lilserenity · #43 Post by **lilserenity** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:33 pm

tyipengr wrote:I have seen these guys on Ebay. They are much like alot of the other unscrupulous Thinkpad sellers who like to hide the word "Remanufactured" in the HUGE blob of text they attach at the bottom of the page and stick the word "IBM sealed box" in the the place of refurb.

Like everyone else has said reject the package. If you accept it you open up a whole new can of worms with them.

They can..
1. Refuse to take it back.
2. Claim that you broke it then shipped it back and charge you for repairs.
3. Something worse that I can't think of because I am just not wicked enough to contemplate these things...

As you say; a lot of the items offered are refurbished/remanufactured, however the one I purchased was explicitly stated be be NEW! Brand New sealed in IBM Box, 3 years IBM Warranty. This is why I bought this particular one which is now sitting in somebody else's hands and it is legally mine!

The one they have sent out it a reman/refurb.

I am due to talk to them anytime now, and express I shall be rejecting the package.

Vicky

hausman · #44 Post by **hausman** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:53 pm

lilserenity wrote:the one I purchased was explicitly stated be be NEW! Brand New sealed in IBM Box, 3 years IBM Warranty. This is why I bought this particular one which is now sitting in somebody else's hands and it is legally mine! The one they have sent out it a reman/refurb.

Another reason to enlist IBM's assistance. Selling used/refurb merchandise under the guise of "new" should be more than enough for IBM to terminate their BP relationship with this vendor.

Moreover, there are statutes in most jurisdictions that prohibit the sale of used/refurb merchandise that' advertised as "new." That's another infraction that the NY AG's office will want to investigate.

lilserenity · #45 Post by **lilserenity** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:34 pm

hausman wrote:Another reason to enlist IBM's assistance. Selling used/refurb merchandise under the guise of "new" should be more than enough for IBM to terminate their BP relationship with this vendor.

It is worth me pointing out the one that I purchased as per the eBay description was indeed brand new and nothing to suggest it was remanufactured or refurbished.

The one they sent out instead *was* a refurb/reman' unit and this fact was not hidden.

You will notice the word 'was'... See the next post.

hausman wrote:Moreover, there are statutes in most jurisdictions that prohibit the sale of used/refurb merchandise that' advertised as "new." That's another infraction that the NY AG's office will want to investigate.

Indeed it is, however I shall now update the situation having spoke to PM Distributors, and most amicably as well I must say.

Vicky[/b]

lilserenity · #46 Post by **lilserenity** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:43 pm

Hello,

I have spoke to PM Distributors Inc. and here is where I stand.

I sent in a second email as an addendum that I expected a response by 6.30pm GMT, there was no email however a message was left on my phone, from PM. Impressive; they actually got back to me!

However the message was very crackly so I phoned back to get the info.

Basically they apologise completely for cocking up. The representative (the guy who I spoke to first time, pleasant chap) I spoke to, was most helpful, he said he did not want to pass the buck and said this mess was THEIR fault, a miscommunication between the sales and inventory department. There was not a whiff of them using the 3 day rule, evidently I have more than enough evidence to show I did my best. (And excl. weeekend and national holiday, I did pay in 3 days).

He also said they have stopped the shipping of the 2374-XXG as they realise that it is not what I want, and apologised for appearing to sound as if they were forcing me into having that one. This chap said that they completely agree with me, and they messed up, big time on this one.

He said that his job this afternoon was to check their inventory for SXGA based T40s, then IBM themselves being a Business Partner, and further to that their own contacts.

He said if it costs them more to buy one in than what I paid, that is their problem as the cock should not have occurred. He said they could even possibly build one using brand new components, again he said if the cost of this was more (likely he said), again thats their problem, not mine - he re-iterated that my customer satisfaction is of utmost importance.

He then said that the manager will call me first thing when they open at 10am (3pm GMT) on my mobile phone to tell me whether they have sourced a suitable T40 exacting to what I purchased, or how long it will take if one is not immediately available and to authorise a total refund, as he did not have the authority to do the latter and the manager was in a meeting that afternoon (though it was the manager who phoned me and left the message when I was at work).

Overall this has been something of a relief to me, as they found nothing to disagree with me on, and know that this was their goof and I am innocent in all this and did all I was told of me.

Of course if I am given the run around, the AG department will be having a field day...

A slightly more pleased Vicky[/quote]

G-Man · #47 Post by **G-Man** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:14 pm

YEAH!!!! Good job!

Regards,
G-Man

lilserenity · #48 Post by **lilserenity** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:22 pm

G-Man wrote:YEAH!!!! Good

Well I can be very stern, firm, and forceful when need be. But then so can any Domme...

I'll keep matters posted here as to the progress.

Vicky

Txiasaeia · #49 Post by **Txiasaeia** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:32 pm

That's absolutely fantastic, Victoria. I'm glad you got through to them! (perhaps they read this thread

) Anyway, keep us updated!

DrGrafix · #50 Post by **DrGrafix** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:41 pm

Vicky...

I don't recall that you listed the actual link to the item you "won" and I was wondering if you could/would do that. If these folks turn out to be jerks and string you along... it'd be good to know who they are. If they make amends and satisfy you 110%, then I think we should know who they are and give them a pass

Mike

G-Man · #51 Post by **G-Man** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:44 pm

She did, on the first page of this thread.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1085646325

Regards,
G-Man

Conmee · #52 Post by **Conmee** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:51 pm

Vic,

That's great news. Not everyday that justice prevails in online purchase disputes. Maybe Bill should change the title of this thread to.... "Would you believe of LUCKY I am!!!" lol

Daniel.

csv96 · #53 Post by **csv96** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:55 pm

Glad it worked out. Just make sure they give you an SXGA+ unit! A good one that's commonly available is the 2379DJU (T41, 1.6/256/40/COMBO/SXGA+/802.11b/3-year). I have seen several on ebay close for not too more than what you paid so maybe you could ask PM Distributors for one of these.

lilserenity · #54 Post by **lilserenity** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:00 pm

csv96 wrote:Glad it worked out. Just make sure they give you an SXGA+ unit! A good one that's commonly available is the 2379DJU (T41, 1.6/256/40/COMBO/SXGA+/802.11b/3-year). I have seen several on ebay close for not too more than what you paid so maybe you could ask PM Distributors for one of these.

Indeed, but I shan't interfere until I hear from them tomorrow, then I will see what they have to say for themselves and what the options are. I have noticed several T40/T41 specs I'd be happy with, and the one you mention is one of them!

(a 256mb PC2700 stick for the T41 is hardly bank breaking stuff

)

Vicky

lilserenity · #55 Post by **lilserenity** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:02 pm

Conmee wrote:Vic,

That's great news. Not everyday that justice prevails in online purchase disputes. Maybe Bill should change the title of this thread to.... "Would you believe of LUCKY I am!!!" lol

Daniel.

Well maybe, I'm not holding my breath, it still could end up like a chase akin to Benny Hill, but hey, looks good now but the deal is not done till I get the T40 I want, or my money back.

We shall soon see...

I'm sure all will work out though and I will have prevailed again.

Maybe my friend Lorre IS right about the brit accent having its virtues on Americans

Vicky

lilserenity · #56 Post by **lilserenity** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:03 pm

G-Man wrote:She did, on the first page of this thread.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1085646325

Regards,
G-Man

Yep I did indeed, and you can also witness my erm, purchasing habit, ahem

Vicky

G-Man · #57 Post by **G-Man** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:16 pm

Vicky,

Don't worry, I won't check your previously purchased items. I think it's too personal, and not our business at all.

Regards,
G-Man

JHEM · #58 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:24 pm

G-Man wrote:Don't worry, I won't check your previously purchased items. I think it's too personal, and not our business at all.

Not to worry G, Vicky has already promised to bring the Sassy Serving Maid outfit to chicago with her!

Regards,

James

G-Man · #59 Post by **G-Man** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:54 pm

I definitely wanna see that! Bring a camera with you Vicky.

Regards,
G-Man

jkirch · #60 Post by **jkirch** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:32 pm

Vicky,

when they call you with the info about the possible new maschine you should ask them for the serial number, so you can check online with IBM how much warranty is given to/left on that maschine.

check available here: http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... arranty.vm

Chers
Jens

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