What do you think of Apple's new iPad?

[pianowizard]

I finally had a chance to play with an iPad, and found myself liking it more than I had expected. I still don't find it a goundbreaking invention, but for its intended uses (especially tasks that don't involve much typing), it works quite well. Its light weight makes it especially valuable for people who need to be constantly holding up a computer -- this thing is much lighter than any tablet PC out there. In fact, even the 1.4-lb iPad felt a little heavy after I held it for about 5 minutes, so if I ever needed to hold a computer up for an extended time period, the iPad would be the only feasible option.

I also had a chance to play with an Apple Magic Mouse ($70!). It's by far the best pointing device I've ever used! I must admit it's getting increasingly difficult to avoid becoming an Apple fanboy!

[craigmontHunter]

I also had a chance to play with an Apple Magic Mouse ($70!). It's by far the best pointing device I've ever used! I must admit it's getting increasingly difficult to avoid becoming an Apple fanboy!

I have a friend with a Macbook Pro 13', and while the mouse is neat, I find that it is too small, like the laptop mice that are 1/8 the size of a real mouse. I carry a full size mouse around with me when i take a mouse.

The Ipad looks neat, but IMHO, it is like the ipod touch, you can do everything, but you pay a premium. I have a cheap (less than half the cost of a Ipod touch) sansa fuze, and I like it more, it is smaller, and i can do everything that i want with it.

[Navck]

The iPad seems closer related to a (crippled, no flash, Apple lockdown) UMPC type formfactor device than tablet if you want to compare by category. It is still going to cost close to a tablet once all the accessories (Because many people will buy them) are included.

[Puppy]

iPad has display

[Navck]

iPad has display

...UMPCs have displays... Too?

[pianowizard]

I have a friend with a Macbook Pro 13', and while the mouse is neat, I find that it is too small, like the laptop mice that are 1/8 the size of a real mouse. I carry a full size mouse around with me when i take a mouse.

The Apple Magic Mouse *is* a full-sized external mouse. If you haven't seen photos of it, google it up.

The Ipad looks neat, but IMHO, it is like the ipod touch, you can do everything, but you pay a premium. I have a cheap (less than half the cost of a Ipod touch) sansa fuze, and I like it more, it is smaller, and i can do everything that i want with it.

My HTC Touch Pro2 smartphone is more versatile than the iPad too, but the iPad has a nicer screen and is faster.

The iPad seems closer related to a (crippled, no flash, Apple lockdown) UMPC type formfactor device than tablet if you want to compare by category.

It may be classified as a UMPC, but for people looking for a mobile device with a large touchscreen, they will be choosing mainly between a tablet PC versus the iPad, not the iPad versus other UMPCs.

[Navck]

Apple's Magic Mouse will pale in comparison to a real mouse with a right button in terms of practical ergonomics. At 70 dollars I will go buy the fanciest gamer mouse with proper ergonomics, high resolution and high refresh laser.

I can say that the old Logitechs will make my wrist hurt like hell too.

[ThinkRob]

Apple's Magic Mouse will pale in comparison to a real mouse with a right button in terms of practical ergonomics. At 70 dollars I will go buy the fanciest gamer mouse with proper ergonomics, high resolution and high refresh laser.

I can say that the old Logitechs will make my wrist hurt like hell too.

Yes, but most average users don't buy their computing hardware based on practical ergonomics. They buy it based on whether they like how it looks, whether it's cheap enough (for them), and whether it works (for them.) For a lot of those users, the Magic Mouse fits the bill.

[pianowizard]

Apple's Magic Mouse will pale in comparison to a real mouse with a right button in terms of practical ergonomics. At 70 dollars I will go buy the fanciest gamer mouse with proper ergonomics

As far as scrolling is concerned, the Magic Mouse has much better ergonomics than all other mice because it doesn't use a scroll wheel. I had always been bothered by scroll wheels and so the Magic Mouse felt like a godsend. If you haven't actually tried it, you should.

BTW, it has a right button.

[Navck]

I'd rather buy a functional mouse then, because 70 dollars for looks is 70 dollars I can buy in auto detailing supplies to make my car look beautiful. Then again, I think I stare at the car more than I stare at my mouse (And especially my keyboard, which I touch type on more often.)

Also, one thing I don't like about mice is a glossy finish (Logitech, that means the G7.) All sorts of "hand crud" builds up on it (Read: Sweat, skin) and it needs to be cleaned off often. Rubberized/texturized plastic finishes tend to stay nice and are low maintance.

I still don't like the Magic Mouse, it doesn't have very good ergonomics at all, moreso of design student idealizations. Then again, Apple likes design that appeals to a specific audience and through a placebo like effect of paying for 70 dollars, they won't get RSI. (While on the other hand, as I focus pure hatred toward Logitech, I will feel the pain nice and early as horrible as the mouse really is.)

[GomJabbar]

I finally had a chance to play with an iPad, and found myself liking it more than I had expected. I still don't find it a goundbreaking invention, but for its intended uses (especially tasks that don't involve much typing), it works quite well. Its light weight makes it especially valuable for people who need to be constantly holding up a computer -- this thing is much lighter than any tablet PC out there.

Maybe Bill Gates was right all along about tablet computing.

Seven and a half years ago, the Microsoft founder tried to forecast the future of the company's new "Tablet PC" technology. He boldly predicted that displays, batteries and storage would see such improvements that "virtually every PC user" would want one of these touch-screen devices.

But the company that finally put those ingredients together in a way that excited the mass market was not Microsoft, but Apple.

Five weeks ago, that Cupertino, Calif., firm introduced the iPad (perhaps you've heard of it?). And in the first 28 days after its April 2 launch, Apple sold 1 million of the things.

For most of that time, I've had a loaner model from Apple's public relations department at home, and it's been interesting to see how often that iPad winds up being used instead of a laptop. Between a standby battery life measured in weeks and a wakeup time measured in tenths of a second, it's just easier to grab the iPad first -- to check the weather, look up a recipe or pluck some other random factoid off the Web.

As a result, the iPad's glossy screen now bears a dense accumulation of fingerprints...

The New York Times: Fast Forward: There shouldn't be just one template for tablet success

[pianowizard]

GomJabbar, that' an excellent excerpt. I especially agree with this:

...it's been interesting to see how often that iPad winds up being used instead of a laptop. Between a standby battery life measured in weeks and a wakeup time measured in tenths of a second, it's just easier to grab the iPad first -- to check the weather, look up a recipe or pluck some other random factoid off the Web.

I feel the same about smartphones, which I've been using since 2007. For the reasons this guy listed, I often find myself accessing the internet through my smartphone even when I am sitting right in front of a computer. And I used to almost always travel with a laptop (plus a separate cell phone), but since 2007 I have been traveling usually with just a smartphone. True, laptops would be more powerful and versatile, but smartphones are sooooooo much more convenient.

BTW, as I've explained in several other threads such as this one (the 8th post), I also find desktops more convenient than laptops and so I rarely use laptops any more. Had I not put so much money into upgrading my T43p and T42, I would have sold them already.

[craigmontHunter]

I have used a magic mouse, but I find that it is too flat, and while, yes, it is full sized, it is shorter than a normal mouse. the scrolling is neat, but I personally like the Microsoft mouse design, which I use on most of my computers.

Jack

[rkawakami]

Here's an interesting iPad story (well, actually TWO iPads): http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_15352918

[Harryc]

Off topic: I wonder if there is a similar app for late model Thinkpads with GPS. If not, it would be a good idea to create one.

[pianowizard]

If there's ever an iPad-like device that runs Windows, has at least one USB port, has an external VGA port, weighs a little less than the iPad, has a slide-out keyboard, and has a sub-$400 price tag, then I would be very interested in buying one. In fact, with something like that, I probably won't be needing a laptop any more.

[asiafish]

I've had my iPad for about two weeks now, and just took it on its first overnight business trip.

The iPad is an outstanding laptop replacement when you are very busy, not so great when you have a lot of free time. Here is why.

When you are busy, this is one extremely handy device. Instant-on, forever battery life (still had 70% after about 4 hours of continuous use and constant on-off for calendar), far easier to manipulate than a laptop or stylus-driven tablet.

The games, readers and browser are wonderful for casual use, like waiting at the airport, and again is far more useful than a full laptop in that situation.

Where the iPad fails is when you have a lot of time and want to get serious work done. It is great for taking notes, but the word processing and spreadsheet options are very limited for anything that involves complex formatting or functions. I use Word docs for client notes, for example, and using Documents to Go Premium and my DropBox account, they are very easy to work with on the iPad. Legal pleadings, however, would have their formatting destroyed if they imported at all.

Also, I enjoy PC games, and the iPad, while great for casual games, is no replacement for a real PC.

Of course, the iPad was never meant to replace your laptop, but rather to supplement it. When I go to court in the morning, the iPad is the perfect companion. Light, fast, handy and with the most intuitive calendar access (syncs to my Exchange account) of any device available today. Short trips like the one I just returned from are also wonderful with the iPad. Anything longer than a few days, and I'll probably bring my MacBook Pro either instead of or in addition to the iPad.

[ThinkRob]

If there's ever an iPad-like device that runs Windows, has at least one USB port, has an external VGA port, weighs a little less than the iPad, has a slide-out keyboard, and has a sub-$400 price tag, then I would be very interested in buying one. In fact, with something like that, I probably won't be needing a laptop any more.

I think the term you're looking for is "netbook"...

[asiafish]

I think the term you're looking for is "netbook"...

And how is a net book an "iPad-like device"? Is a net book 1.5lbs? Do netbooks have instant-on? Are they slates that can be easily used standing up? Do netbooks "weigh a little less and have a slide-out keyboard"?

I think Pianowizard knows what a NetBook is, and that a NetBook is not an "iPad-like device".

I sold a MacBook Air after getting my iPad. The MacBook Air is a much better laptop than any NetBook, but it is not in any way "iPad-Like" except for sharing the same support network.

[ThinkRob]

And how is a net book an "iPad-like device"? Is a net book 1.5lbs? Do netbooks have instant-on? Are they slates that can be easily used standing up? Do netbooks "weigh a little less and have a slide-out keyboard"?

I was mostly kidding, but now that you bring it up:

Is a net book 1.5lbs?

Some are, yes. 1.5 lb is pretty rare, but some do exist. If you're willing to up that to 2.0 lb, you can find a lot more.

Do netbooks have instant-on?

Yes, pretty much all of them support suspend just like the iPad.

The last two points are AFAIK un-touched by any device on the market. (The N900 is close to what pianowizard is after, but it runs Linux and lacks a VGA port.)

[asiafish]

Some are, yes. 1.5 lb is pretty rare, but some do exist. If you're willing to up that to 2.0 lb, you can find a lot more.


Yes, pretty much all of them support suspend just like the iPad.

The last two points are AFAIK un-touched by any device on the market. (The N900 is close to what pianowizard is after, but it runs Linux and lacks a VGA port.)

No, not like the iPad, they use Windows suspend, which is notoriously unreliable. Hibernate is dead reliable, but slow. Linux? Works for some, not for others, depends on what you want to connect to, but again you are using a clamshell device that weighs 2lbs plus, and with Linux you will usually have poor battery life.

Apple lists the iPad at 10 hours, and that is a VERY CONSERVATIVE estimate. I tested my iPad with wifi off and the screen and 50% (nice and bright) and with wifi on and the screen at max bright (uncomfortably bright). Running a high-def .MP4 movie ripped from DVD it ran for 11:47 with wifi off and screen at 50%, and for 10:07 with wifi on and the screen at full. No netbook can do that, unless you attach all sorts of heavy batteries.

[ThinkRob]

No, not like the iPad, they use Windows suspend, which is notoriously unreliable. Hibernate is dead reliable, but slow. Linux? Works for some, not for others, depends on what you want to connect to, but again you are using a clamshell device that weighs 2lbs plus, and with Linux you will usually have poor battery life.

Netbooks and the iPad are certainly different, and I'm not disputing most of your points, but it seems like you may have some bad info on Linux.

1) Linux is supported by the manufacturers of many netbooks. Heck, Dell even ships netbooks with Ubuntu pre-configured. Linux used to be in the realm of hobbyists -- even five years ago, sure -- but it's 2010, and things have changed.

2) Saying "with Linux you will usually have poor battery life" is every bit as accurate as saying "with Windows you will usually have blue screens"; it's a gross mis-representation of the status quo based on a problem that (although once frequent) is not really a major issue any more.

As far as the netbook vs. iPad thing goes: go with the one that makes you happy. A lot of consumers are choosing the more affordable, more capable option of a netbook, but I don't doubt there is a market for something like the iPad. It seems like quite a solid device for someone with the cash to spend on entertainment gear.

[asiafish]

Linux will usually have poor battery life because the device maker, be it Dell, Apple, Lenovo or whoever, probably don't spend much time or effort optimizing power management drivers for Linux. The drivers make a huge difference, which is why battery life tends to get better with an new OS rather than worse.

Linux is still in the realm of hobbyists. Yes, you CAN buy a computer pre-configured with Linux, but very few do, and those who do are most likely NOT mainstream users. Linux still has significant limitations that keep it from the mainstream.

Also, not all iPad buyers are looking for entertainment. Some buy it as a handy web browser/email machine. Some as an ereader with more functions. I bought mine more for the calendar than anything else. Yes, it can play games, but I have yet to install a single one, and so far haven't moved any music on to it either. I do move movies to it before I fly, I'll confess, but that hardly changes what I bought as a work tool into an entertainment device.

A netbook of course supports an MS Exchange calendar through Outlook just as well or better than the iPad does, but what would a netbook give me that I didn't already have with the MacBook Air? I sold the Air when I started using the iPad and realized that it had become redundant.

[ThinkRob]

Linux will usually have poor battery life because the device maker, be it Dell, Apple, Lenovo or whoever, probably don't spend much time or effort optimizing power management drivers for Linux. The drivers make a huge difference, which is why battery life tends to get better with an new OS rather than worse.

Linux is still in the realm of hobbyists. Yes, you CAN buy a computer pre-configured with Linux, but very few do, and those who do are most likely NOT mainstream users. Linux still has significant limitations that keep it from the mainstream.

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with that.

I've run both Linux and Windows on my two most recent ThinkPads (a T500 and an X200), and there just isn't any significant difference in battery life.

Yes, several years ago, back before the tickless kernel, before Intel started pushing hard for power management, before USB suspend worked properly, etc. this used to be a problem, but it's really not much of an issue any more.

As far as being ready for mainstream: it's already there. This past week I installed Linux on my X61s and gave it to my mother.

She, like most of the folks in her generation, is *not* a technical person. She had previously used a "mainstream" OS known for its simplicity (Mac OS X), so I was naturally a little anxious about the transition. She's had absolutely no problems with it though: all the applications are neatly categorized and easy-to-find, her iPod is supported just fine by Rhythmbox, and every piece of software on the machine is updated automatically -- all she has to do is click a single icon in the task bar and type in her password. She hasn't had to turn the machine off since she got it either, since suspend and hibernate work perfectly out of the box. She was a little nervous about the idea of tethering her phone to the machine (so that she can access the internet without hunting for a hotspot), but when she did so she was greeted with a click-through wizard -- she selected our cellphone carrier, pressed next, and was online.

What significant limitations (other than "not being Windows") have you encountered?

Also, not all iPad buyers are looking for entertainment. Some buy it as a handy web browser/email machine. Some as an ereader with more functions. I bought mine more for the calendar than anything else. Yes, it can play games, but I have yet to install a single one, and so far haven't moved any music on to it either. I do move movies to it before I fly, I'll confess, but that hardly changes what I bought as a work tool into an entertainment device.

Fair enough. Personally I've found that e-readers with e-ink screens are a lot less fatiguing -- I dislike staring at a large bright surface for hours at a time -- but I suppose it's a decent device for that.

I don't think it's a bad device, I just think it's exceptionally expensive for what it does. If it were hackable (or if it were as flexible as most Android/Linux-powered devices) I would have gotten one the day it was released, but given Apple's rather anti-consumer attitude I couldn't justify the price.

[j-dawg]

Another vote for Linux netbooks. I have not noticed any difference with battery life in Ubuntu vs Windows, and I have TV Power Manager installed on my Windows partition.

Linux is not out of range of the average user for the reasons which will follow in a meandering, incoherent ramble which vacillates between tales of my personal experience and assumptions about end users that simply aren't true. Most computer usage today (BLANKET GENERALIZATION AHEAD) is internet surfing, document typing - stuff that can all be accomplished with the default applications in nearly every consumer-oriented Linux distribution. Yes, it's a new operating system to get used to. That said, so is the iPad OS. And an iPad is similarly useful in that it can accomplish all those tasks with the built-in application set. Adding extra applications, widgets, doodads, gimmicks, etc. is easy on each system - on the iPad, you go to the App Store, in Linux, you fire up your package manager GUI. If you're not interested in extensive customization of your experience - on the iPad, you can't really do it, in Linux you are liable to mess it up if you try - then the iPad and a Linux-equipped netbook are more similar than you would like to think.

The thing is, for what I say to be relevant, users have to approach a Linux netbook with the mindset with which they approach the iPad - a device that is preconfigured by the manufacturer to work along certain lines. Truth be told, this is not difficult. I don't know that much about Linux but Ubuntu works better out of the box than does Windows. I just make it look pretty by choosing one of the built-in wallpapers and moving the window control buttons back to the right side and I'm done. So this is basically the iPad mentality. I use my browser and occasionally word processing (I installed MS Office via WINE, which is I suppose out of reach of the average user, but they can suffer through OO.o if they aren't inclined to google how to install Office on Ubuntu.)

But the average user will not approach a Linux-equipped netbook with the iPad mentality. The average user will look at a netbook and say, "Ah - a small laptop." They will try to tweak it like they do a Windows-equipped laptop, somehow screw things up royally, and return the device in a huff.

In other words, they will fail to see the point of a netbook, which is what has been happening for hte last two years, much to my chagrin. When the Eee 701 came out I thought it was hot [censored]. A little laptop-shaped device with a flash-based hard drive that lets me check my e-mail on Wi-Fi and maybe browse Facebook? Awesome! This, I thought, is the future of computing. Lightweight, browser-oriented, cheap. This will de-localize the computing experience and move us towards the omnipresent Cloud of Knowledge. Sick.

Consumers did not agree with me. As smartphones became smarter and smarter, they began to want netbooks to be more like little laptops, and that's what they got. So the iPad is growing to take the netbook's intended place. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's ironic that, when introducing the 'Pad, Steve was railing against netbooks. He wasn't entirely wrong, but there's nothing with the original concept of the netbook that's inherently different from that of the iPad. They've just strayed from their course because consumers are stupid.

One of my roommates has an iPad and I don't really see the point. Everywhere he's taken it, he's also had a real computer with him, or access to a real computer. It's too big and flashy to use on a subway, and when he's at home he has a real laptop to use. It's a neat toy but I can't see a use for it that isn't contrived as a use for an iPad. One exception is old people; for example, my uncle finds it easier to use than a real computer. I am thinking of buying one for my mother for the same reason.

[asiafish]

What significant limitations (other than "not being Windows") have you encountered?

Lack of MS Exchange support. It probably does exist, but its certainly a simple default setup and requires some geek-knowledge to make work.

Lack of commercial codecs. Again, you can make it work to play commercial DVDs, but you need some geek-knowledge to do it.

Lack of "real" applications. Yes, I know all about OpenOffice and The GIMP, but those are only a good option if you do not need to collaborate with others on complex documents/files. The iPad, of course, fails here too, but as a 1.5lb travel device, I wouldn't think of using it to write legal briefs. Linux in the legal field is a non-starter, and I would imagine that the same limitation keeps it out of other industries as well.

I stand by my view that Linux is a hobby OS. You can make it do almost everything and it is very reliable, but you either need some decent geek cred, or to know someone who does.

[ThinkRob]

Lack of MS Exchange support. It probably does exist, but its certainly a simple default setup and requires some geek-knowledge to make work.

It exists and works quite well. The "geek-knowledge" I needed to set it up for my last job was this:

1) Launch Evolution (helpfully labeled as "Evolution Mail" with a picture of an envelope, categorized under "Internet" in my applications menu.)

2) A wizard appears to guide me through setting up my account. First, type in my name and e-mail address. Click "Forward".

3) Select "Microsoft Exchange" as my account type. Complete the wizard (again, using the information provided by the IT dept.)

4) Use Evolution to send/receive mail, etc.

Lack of commercial codecs. Again, you can make it work to play commercial DVDs, but you need some geek-knowledge to do it.

I'm pretty sure that VLC handles this out of the box -- or at least that's what I used when last I had a DVD player (some 3 years ago.)

Lack of "real" applications. Yes, I know all about OpenOffice and The GIMP, but those are only a good option if you do not need to collaborate with others on complex documents/files.

I'm sorry that OpenOffice doesn't meet your needs. It handles Microsoft Office documents quite well, but it is indeed not perfect. That said, my last job did require collaboration with MS Office users, and I never had a problem.

Of course, since both Office and Photoshop work just fine on *nix via Wine...

I stand by my view that Linux is a hobby OS. You can make it do almost everything and it is very reliable, but you either need some decent geek cred, or to know someone who does.

I think the main problem here is one of expectations. You, like many users, seem to think that because a given OS is different than what you're used to it must be bad. As alien, unfriendly, and unsuitable as Linux seems to you, Windows seems to me -- I can't run any of my shell scripts, I don't have a decent C toolchain, and my ability to use my computer remotely is severely hampered. Now that doesn't mean that Windows is a "hobby" OS -- it just means that it works differently than I'm accustomed to. It's not inferior for most things or unsuitable for most people just because it doesn't do everything the way that I've come to expect.

Linux is, indeed, very different than Windows. It's far from a "hobby" OS, however, and the fact that organizations such as Google and IBM use it internally (on the desktop no less!) supports that claim.

[dr_st]

I think the main problem here is one of expectations. You, like many users, seem to think that because a given OS is different than what you're used to it must be bad. As alien, unfriendly, and unsuitable as Linux seems to you, Windows seems to me -- I can't run any of my shell scripts, I don't have a decent C toolchain, and my ability to use my computer remotely is severely hampered. Now that doesn't mean that Windows is a "hobby" OS -- it just means that it works differently than I'm accustomed to. It's not inferior for most things or unsuitable for most people just because it doesn't do everything the way that I've come to expect.

I like your analysis. It is a refreshing sight - A person that clearly prefers Linux, yet at the same time does not bash Windows (or vice versa).

One remark though: about "my ability to use my computer remotely is severely hampered". I found that it's actually quite easy to set up secure remote access for Windows PCs. All it requires is an SFTP server (I use TitanFTP) and a VNC server which supports encryption (I use RealVNC Corporate).

Remote Desktop also works very well at least for local area networks.

[j-dawg]

I stand by my view that Linux is a hobby OS. You can make it do almost everything and it is very reliable, but you either need some decent geek cred, or to know someone who does.

As an OS for a computer, yes, that can be argued. But as a comparison to the iPad? I would say Linux is a better base for such a device.

[crashnburn]

I've had my iPad for about two weeks now, and just took it on its first overnight business trip.

The iPad is an outstanding laptop replacement when you are very busy, not so great when you have a lot of free time. Here is why.

When you are busy, this is one extremely handy device. Instant-on, forever battery life (still had 70% after about 4 hours of continuous use and constant on-off for calendar), far easier to manipulate than a laptop or stylus-driven tablet.

The games, readers and browser are wonderful for casual use, like waiting at the airport, and again is far more useful than a full laptop in that situation.

Where the iPad fails is when you have a lot of time and want to get serious work done. It is great for taking notes, but the word processing and spreadsheet options are very limited for anything that involves complex formatting or functions. I use Word docs for client notes, for example, and using Documents to Go Premium and my DropBox account, they are very easy to work with on the iPad. Legal pleadings, however, would have their formatting destroyed if they imported at all.

Also, I enjoy PC games, and the iPad, while great for casual games, is no replacement for a real PC.

Of course, the iPad was never meant to replace your laptop, but rather to supplement it. When I go to court in the morning, the iPad is the perfect companion. Light, fast, handy and with the most intuitive calendar access (syncs to my Exchange account) of any device available today. Short trips like the one I just returned from are also wonderful with the iPad. Anything longer than a few days, and I'll probably bring my MacBook Pro either instead of or in addition to the iPad.

I used it for a bit.. a friend got it from the UK. I liked it.

I think its a near perfect solution for non-techies & casual computing users. For those that do not need full blown multi tasking OS / Systems its a great way to get SIMPLE things done SIMPLY.

For most of us POWER USERS.. its under powered.

But, I could not help the user friendliness of just lying on the bed and playing with it. The FORM factor (size, weight) and the touch usability and UI has its unique appeal. It would not replace a laptop for me at this point.. but I FEEL for a lot of people it could be just right.