Experiences with any of these phones?

[Norway Pad]

The time has now come for the good old Blackberry 8310 to retire, and I am looking for a new phone. This time I am planning to move into the touch screen field, but I am not sure what to go with yet. Notice that the iPhone is out of the question, since I don't like Apple products, and it also needs to be GSM so I can use it back in Norway. And where can I find people that are likely to give me advice on this? On the Thinkpad Forum.

So I have basically narrowed it down to 3 options, listed below with their pros and cons:

- Samsung Captivate - Runs Android, really good WVGA 800x480 touchscreen, but lacks a physical keyboard. The closest you get to the iPhone, without actually buying the iPhone.. Worried about my long term satisfaction with having *only* a touchscreen and no physical keyboard available when I do a lot of typing.

- LG Quantum - Runs Windows Mobile, which is probably nowhere as developed and as good as the Andriod OS. Smaller screen than the other two, but on the other hand it's got one of the best physical keyboards I have ever tried.

- Motorola Droid Milestone - Runs Android, and have the combination of a big nice screen and a physical keyboard. The keyboard is not as good as the LG's, and the screen is the same spec as the Samsung but smaller. However, these are by far good enough for me. Since AT&T don't offer this phone, I will have to buy one full price, which is a slight disadvantage, but no real problem.

If anyone has any experience with any of these phones, and even compared some of them, I would be interested in hearing what you think, and what conclusions you drew out of it. Especially if anyone have experiences with the Windows Mobile OS. And if any of my above pro and cons are wrong, I would like to hear that too.

Thanks!

[underclocker]

Since you are coming from BlackBerry, what about the BlackBerry Torch?

[Norway Pad]

I am very satisfied with the Blackberry, and I have looked at the Torch. The problem is that my norwegian service provider doesn't support the Blackberry data protocol. So the only data access I had while I was on vacation there was through the Opera browser. But after I was stupid enough to update the software, that didn't work anymore either, so the only thing the I could use the Blackberry for entire last summer was to make phone calls and receive/send text messages.

I am so old fashioned, that I am tempted to say that's what a phone is supposed to do, but..

[underclocker]

The problem is that my norwegian service provider doesn't support the Blackberry data protocol.

Shocking, I've been to several developing countries and they all support BlackBerry. Shocking!

I'm a long time BB user myself. I've been using the BB Pearl since it came out (January 2007). I've been thinking about an upgrade to the BB Pearl 3G (9100), but I do like the functionality you get with iPhone and Android phones. I just don't like the size, weight and lack of keyboard. At least my Pearl is still working!

[Norway Pad]

Shocking, I've been to several developing countries and they all support BlackBerry. Shocking!

I've been using the BB Pearl since it came out (January 2007). I've been thinking about an upgrade to the BB Pearl 3G (9100), but I do like the functionality you get with iPhone and Android phones. I just don't like the size, weight and lack of keyboard.

Norway has been in the forefront when it comes to mobile phones and use, but for some reason Blackberry isn't big there. The two major service providers, Telenor and NetCom don't support BB at all. But since the BB also uses Egde, you have some limited data access through Edge. There is a small provider, Trigcom, that offers BB phones and services, but they are more pointed towards business use, and I found them too expensive compared to what I got.

Edit: I have never tried with my AT&T card in any of them, just my norwegian sim card. That might work differently. The phone and text message part will work anyway.

I have two BBs, an old 8300 and the 8310, and I they are great phones. I would probably have stayed with BB, hadn't it been for the compatibility issue. I share your opinion on the Android/iPhones, so at this point, I am leaning towards the Motorola Droid. So far the best combination of a "developed" OS, and an actual keyboard.

[j-dawg]

As you mentioned, the Droid's keyboard isn't very good, or at least not the original's. I don't know if the new one improved on it any. I'd still much rather use that than a touchscreen keyboard, though, and the screen is fantastic. The Droid would be my choice.

It looks like all the phones you're looking at are good phones, so you won't be interested in my Nokia fanboy recommendations. I'm perfectly happy with my Nokias, but I think at least a small part of that is knowing that nobody else would be happy with them.

[Norway Pad]

It's funny that you mention Nokia. In the early days of mobile phones back in Norway, Nokia and Ericsson were the two big ones. The last phone I bought there was a Nokia N73, which is still working today, in my daughter's possession. Some of it's features are even today "cooler" than most of her friends' phones, but it's over all a bit too complex. At least for a kid. But I loved it.

So far it seems like the Droid is the winner in my contest. And today I found that Verizon sells a Droid that's both GSM and CDMA capable. It is $599 for a non-contract phone, and by buying it in a store, I can make sure it accepts both my Norwegian and my AT&T sim cards before I buy it. I don't see why they should put any restrictions at all on a non-contracted phone, but you never know..

Edit: No, you apparently never know. So far, reviews online seem to indicate that the firmware blocks the AT&T sim cards in the Verizon Droid phones. I will have to check out if that's really the case even for an non-contract phone. I won't be surprised if it is, and then the Droid Milestone will be my alternative after all. Btw, anyone have any experiences with where to buy/not to buy? On Amazon I find the Milestone as low as $384, but I am sure there is a catch there.

[loyukfai]

Wait a minute. Are you sure your Norwegian operator and AT&T use the same GSM frequency...?

[Norway Pad]

The Droid supports the GSM frequencies 850/900/1800/1900, so I am good to go with both Telenor and AT&T here. I am not quite sure about the 3G, though. Telenor is using 3G 2100, while AT&T is using 850 and 1900. So far it seems like the Droid supports only 3G 2100. And that probably explains what one of the resellers says about the Milestone:

Important Note: This model is not the Verizon Motorola Droid. This phone will not work for Verizon or any other CDMA service. This is the GSM version of the Droid name Motorola Milestone. Keyboard on this phone is QWERTZ. We do not guarantee that Google Nav will work in US. In replace of the Google Nav you can use Moto Nav. The biggest advantage you will find Multi-Touch on this phone where the Droid do not have. Pinch in out for zooming works on photos and the web browser. 3G Data service will not work with U.S. carriers. On the other hand, GPRS, GPS Signal, and EDGE will work with any GSM carrier in US.

So probably slightly slower than 3G, but at least data connection. I will have to look more into this, so thanks for bringing it up.

[loyukfai]

Welcome.

According to the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Droid), the Milestone has 2 versions, one is N.A. (3G @ 850/1900MHz) and the other is European (3G @ 900/2100MHz).

They both do quad-band GSM so at worst, there're still GPRS/EDGE.

BTW, as you may already know, the DROID 2 Global (CDMA/GSM) has been released, but I suspect that it may also have the AT&T SIM lock like the DROID PRO.

P.S. For the original DROID, the CDMA version is called DROID and the GSM versions are called Milestone.

Cheers.

[Norway Pad]

Good to know, this supports what I found.

I found the Wikipedia entry too, and I assumed that the N.A meant Not Available, but I am not sure. In case the 850/1900Mhz does exist, I will have to make sure that I buy the 900/2100Mhz. Here in the US, I can worst case still use the Blackberry for any special needs, while I want my new phone to work 100% in Norway, as that will be the only phone I have available there.

I do believe that the guy I talked to in the Verizon store today was actually referring to the Droid he showed me as the Droid 2, but I won't be surprised if it's locked for AT&T still. And this phone will most likely not support the European standards for 3G anyway. It wouldn't make sense to sell a phone here in the US that doesn't support our 3G network.. Some good input to keep in the back of my mind while looking for one.

[loyukfai]

I guess the "N.A." in the entry stands for North America, where some GSM operators use the frequency band 850/1900MHz for their 3G networks, instead of 900/2100MHz as the rest of the world. Besides, AFAIK, "Not Available" is usually abbreviated as "N/A".

This is also mentioned in the article under the section "Motorola Milestone".

So much for compatibility...

• Motorola DROID = CDMA
  Motorola DROID 2 = CDMA
  Motorola Milestone = Motorola DROID in GSM (2 versions)
  Motorola DROID 2 Global = DROID 2 with GSM/CDMA compatibility (with possible SIM restrictions even after unlocked)

BTW, the DROID PRO (which is altogether a different model from the above mentioned DROIDs) is one neat phone, if you like the Blackberry form factor, it may very well be a good choice.

Cheers.

[Norway Pad]

I guess the "N.A." in the entry stands for North America, where some GSM operators use the frequency band 850/1900MHz for their 3G networks, instead of 900/2100MHz as the rest of the world. Besides, AFAIK, "Not Available" is usually abbreviated as "N/A".

I am being stupid here, you are right about N.A vs. N/A.

Motorola Milestone = Motorola DROID in GSM (2 versions)

Cheers.

This seems to be the final confirmation that there are two Milestone versions, and that I need to really pay attention to which one I am getting. It did pay off to make this posting on this forum after all. Otherwise there is actually a chance I could have bought a Milestone without being aware that there are different 3G options.

Cheers!

[loyukfai]

BTW, are you aware that the Milestone 2 (GSM version of DROID 2) has recently been released...?

An improved keyboard, a faster processor, more RAM, and a higher price.

Cheers.

[ThinkRob]

Avoid Windows Mobile like the plague.

Personally, I'd go with a Nexus One. I got one recently for a family member, and I absolutely love it. It's got an excellent screen, great design and (with CyanogenMod) excellent battery life. Furthermore, you can get one with an unlocked bootloader that gives you complete control over the operating system.

[Norway Pad]

I didn't find any Milestone 2s for sale just by doing a quick search. But I found the specs for it, which are interesting:

• 2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
  3G Network HSDPA 1900 / 2100

If this is the case, it seems to be support both kinds of 3G, so 3G (in)compatibility won't be an issue if I go with the Milestone 2. So maybe it will pay off to wait and look around for one of these.

Avoid Windows Mobile like the plague.

My intuition whispered that to me when I saw it, thanks for the confirmation.

[loyukfai]

http://www.expansys.com/motorola-milest ... ne-203426/ GBP380

Don't think it got a quad-band 3G/HSDPA radio through.

http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/XW-EN ... -XW-EN.alt

NETWORKS
WCDMA 900/2100, HSDPA, GSM/EDGE 850/900/1800/1900

[TTY]

Of the three original alternatives, i just looked at what Motorola has to offer. This is what i found:

Motorola Droid: this phone doesn't work in Telenor's Norwegian network. No GSM and no 3G in Norway. And in the US, it doesn't seem to work in the AT&T network.

Motorola Droid2: same as Droid.

Motorola Droid2 Global: Works in Telenor's Norwegian GSM and 3G networks. Does also work in AT&T's US GSM and 3G networks. Has EDGE.

Motorola Droid Pro: Works in Telenor's Norwegian GSM and 3G networks. Also works in AT&T's GSM and 3G networks. Has EDGE.

North American Motorola Milestone: This model doesn't seem to marketed in the US. It is being marketed in Canada. Doesn't work in Telenor's Norwegian GSM network, because it seems to have merely dual band GSM at 850/1900. Most probably doesn't work in Telenor's 3G network. Doesn't have EDGE.

European Motorola Milestone: Works with Telnor's GSM and 3G network. Works with AT&T's GSM network, but not with AT&T's 3G network. Doesn't have EDGE.

Motorola Milestone 2: same as European Motorola Milestone but has EDGE.

So if you want GSM (including EDGE) and 3G with Telenor in Norway and with AT&T in the US, your choices are the Droid 2 Global and the Droid Pro.

If you want GSM (including EDGE) and 3G with Telenor in Norway and GSM (including EDGE) with AT&T in the US but no 3G with AT&T in the US, you could buy the Milestone 2.

If you want GSM and 3G (without EDGE) with Telenor in Norway, and GSM with AT&T in the US, but no 3G with AT&T in the US, you could buy the European Milestone.

What i wrote above is valid only for phones that aren't locked to a specific wireless network.

EDIT: Please see loyukfai's next post. It seems as if Verizon Wireless locks Droid 2 Global and Droid Pro phones which they sell in such a way, that they can't be used in AT&T's network.

[Norway Pad]

Wow, thanks for a fill in on the Motorola Droid/Milestones.

Motorola Droid2 Global: Works in Telenor's Norwegian GSM and 3G networks. Does also work in AT&T's US GSM and 3G networks. Has EDGE.

This is probably the one I was looking at in the Verizon store yesterday. So this one works with both 1900 and 2100 3G then. That makes sense, since the Milestone 2 does (according to link further down), and I would think the Global is based on this one. This is the "easiest" path for me, as I can just go to the store and buy it. But I was under the impression that particularly AT&T is blocked on this phone. I will have to ask about that before I buy. You wouldn't think Verizon did that to a non-contract phone, but obviously service providers puts a lot of effort into discouraging people from use their competitor's services.. (If you're having a Droid, you better stay with us. And if not, we're gonna make d**n sure you're not using AT&T )

European Motorola Milestone: Works with Telenor's GSM and 3G network. Works with AT&T's GSM network, but not with AT&T's 3G network. Doesn't have EDGE.

Motorola Milestone 2: same as European Motorola Milestone but has EDGE.

If you want GSM (including EDGE) and 3G with Telenor in Norway and GSM (including EDGE) with AT&T in the US but no 3G with AT&T in the US, you could buy the Milestone 2.

The lack of EDGE is a drawback for the Milestone, so I will probably avoid that. 3G coverage isn't perfect where I live in Norway (At least it wasn't before) so I would like EDGE.

So after eating Thanksgiving dinner today, I searched online, and found this one: http://welectronics.com/gsm/Motorola/Mo ... gwodo3XTZA This one is actually listed with 3G Network HSDPA 1900/2100, so the 1900 should make it work with AT&T, since they are listed with 3G 850/1900.

This is the favorite so far, but I should probably check out the Global 2 as well. The advantage of the Milestone 2 over the Global 2 is that the Milestone don't have any CDMA support and related components. In my eyes that's just unnecessary functionality, even though it probably won't do any harm. Thank you once again for making investigating this for me.

[loyukfai]

Motorola Droid2 Global: Works in Telenor's Norwegian GSM and 3G networks. Does also work in AT&T's US GSM and 3G networks. Has EDGE.

Doubtful. See http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/17/droi ... d-to-case/

Motorola Droid Pro: Works in Telenor's Norwegian GSM and 3G networks. Also works in AT&T's GSM and 3G networks. Has EDGE.

Again. See also http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=838259

Technically these so called "world phones" are capable of handling AT&T's 3G network, but Verizon has locked the firmware so that they won't work with an AT&T SIM. Maybe someone will hack and make it happen later, I don't know. But currently the lock is still there.

European Motorola Milestone: Works with Telnor's GSM and 3G network. Works with AT&T's GSM network, but not with AT&T's 3G network. Doesn't have EDGE.

EDGE is 2G technology (some call it 2.5G, 2.75G...). The Milestone, if I'm not mistaken, supports AT&T's EDGE services. See http://www.droidforums.net/forum/motoro ... ble-w.html

HSDPA is 3G.

So after eating Thanksgiving dinner today, I searched online, and found this one: http://welectronics.com/gsm/Motorola/Mo ... gwodo3XTZA This one is actually listed with 3G Network HSDPA 1900/2100, so the 1900 should make it work with AT&T, since they are listed with 3G 850/1900.

It would be nice but I afraid that the seller has just got the wrong specifications posted.

Or he made himself something Motorola never made.

Cheers.

[TTY]

So after eating Thanksgiving dinner today, I searched online, and found this one: http://welectronics.com/gsm/Motorola/Mo ... gwodo3XTZA This one is actually listed with 3G Network HSDPA 1900/2100, so the 1900 should make it work with AT&T, since they are listed with 3G 850/1900.

I only checked Motorola's US, Canadian and a Western European (German) Motorola site. On these sites, i didn't find any phone called Motorola Milestone 2 Droid 2, as the online shop, that you linked to, seems to call it. Maybe they have it from another market. They might also have confused it with the Milestone 2, which is marketed in Europe but not in the US. If they mean the Milestone 2, they've got the specs wrong. In that case, they're right by claiming it has quad band GSM, but they're wrong by claiming it has 3G 1900/2100. The Milestone 2 has 3G (W-CDMA) 900/2100. So it should not be capable of 3G in the US.

[TTY]

Doubtful. See http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/17/droi ... d-to-case/

Again. See also http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=838259

Technically these so called "world phones" are capable of handling AT&T's 3G network, but Verizon has locked the firmware so that they won't work with an AT&T SIM. Maybe someone will hack and make it happen later, I don't know. But currently the lock is still there.

Thank you, good to know.

EDGE is 2G technology (some call it 2.5G, 2.75G...). The Milestone, if I'm not mistaken, supports AT&T's EDGE services. See http://www.droidforums.net/forum/motoro ... ble-w.html

I got my information from Motorola's German and UK sites. If it's capable of EDGE, maybe they just forgot to mention it.

[loyukfai]

Avoid Windows Mobile like the plague.

Personally, I'd go with a Nexus One. I got one recently for a family member, and I absolutely love it. It's got an excellent screen, great design and (with CyanogenMod) excellent battery life. Furthermore, you can get one with an unlocked bootloader that gives you complete control over the operating system.

The Nexus One is one brilliant device. A year has almost gone by and it's still by no means "outdated".

However, the Nexus S (or whatever it will be called) is probably just around the corner so I wouldn't suggest getting the Nexus One now.

Besides, some people prefer having a physical keyboard.

I still think the DROID PRO is a good device if you can do with Motorola locking down the bootloader. Otherwise the HTC Desire Z/G2 can be modded with custom ROMs.

[ThinkRob]

The Nexus One is one brilliant device. A year has almost gone by and it's still by no means "outdated".

However, the Nexus S (or whatever it will be called) is probably just around the corner so I wouldn't suggest getting the Nexus One now.

There's always a new phone, computer, media player, TV, etc. "just around the corner" that will totally blow away the current generation. Such is the world of tech.

If you need a phone *now*, my advice would be to get the Nexus One. If you need a phone later... well... don't bother comparison shopping now.

[loyukfai]

Yes. But the OP doesn't seem to be THAT hurry in getting a new phone so, unless there's an gorgeously attractive deal for a Nexus One, I would suggest waiting for 2-3 weeks.

Cheers.

[Norway Pad]

The Milestone 2 has 3G (W-CDMA) 900/2100. So it should not be capable of 3G in the US.

Ok, so the site I found probably has the specifications wrong. But in my case the Norwegian 3G support is the most important thing, so as long as we are sure that it supports 2100, and can be used in Norway, I am good. Some people on a forum discussed that some markets are using two 3G frequencies, one for uploading and one for downloading. But Telenor is only listed with 2100, so I hope that the spec "3G 2100" really makes it work there. The Milestone 2 is still my #1 choice, I just have to find a decent/reliable looking source to buy it from.

There's always a new phone, computer, media player, TV, etc. "just around the corner" that will totally blow away the current generation. Such is the world of tech.

Right. One day you need to draw the line, buy your phone, computer, FS tv, whatever and just accept the possibility that there will be a newer device out next week or next month that is far better. I was thinking of buying my phone sometime between now and Christmas time, so I am in no hurry right now.

The Nexus One seems nice, but I have chosen to go with a phone with a keyboard. I have briefly tried touch screen keyboards, and they are good enough, but I am not sure about my long term satisfaction with using them if I do a lot of typing. And I will type much. The big screen, Wi-Fi and all, makes it so easy to access and read websites and email that this phone will be used a lot more for this purpose than any phone I have had before. That's my suspicion.

Thanks one more time for all the input I have gotten on this issue.

[Norway Pad]

FIY, I stopped by the Verizon Store today and asked around about the Global. And apparently even the full priced, non-contract Droid Global is locked from using AT&T. So the Milestone 2 is definitely my option in the Droid market.

[loyukfai]

Then currently your best option is probably EXPANSYS (http://www.expansys-usa.com/motorola-dr ... ed-203511/) or eBay (http://cell-phones.shop.ebay.com/Cell-P ... 86.c0.m282).

Cheers.