Are there non-Thinkpad laptops that you REALLY like?

[pianowizard]

Have you come across any non-Thinkpad laptops that you really like?

The inspiration for starting this thread came from the Panasonic ToughBook CF-Y4 that I received several days ago. This is quite possibly the most perfect laptop I have ever owned, and I have owned many -- see this thread and this thread. In fact, considering the amazing specs of Panasonic's Y-series ToughBooks, I suspect they may even be the most ideal laptops ever made. My particular Y4 weighs only 3.38 lb, which is actually lighter than many X-series Thinkpads, but it has a 14.1" 1400x1050 screen and an internal optical drive just like the 4:3 T-series Thinkpads. To me, this is a better ultraportable laptop than an X6* Thinkpad with the SXGA+ mod.

Several other non-Thinkpad laptops have also impressed me a lot. I have already praised the HP Mini 5101 elsewhere, but after an accident that took place last week, I now appreciate it even more. I was on a plane and while I was working on a Powerpoint on the HP, I spilled half a can of orange juice onto half of its keyboard and the left edge of the screen, and it survived just fine! I also like the Sony Vaio PCG-Z1A very much, mainly for its amazingly sturdy chassis, good looks, and light weight. Not as light as as Panasonic Y series of course, but still about 0.5 lb lighter than a 14.1" SXGA+ Thinkpad T series.

[craigmontHunter]

My first laptop was one of my favourites - a toshiba portege 7020ct - it could survive anything - it blew components off the motherboard twice (lots of sparks and smoke - fun), the docking staion once, then it was vomited on, and it keep runing like when I first got it ($100 maxed out). It died out of my own stupidity, and I wish I still had it - it was great, it got 5+hrs battery life on a 10 year old battery, and ran 2k like a charm. I have not had a computer since that was as resilliant and dependable, but I am hoping my new T61 will be up to the task.

[Tasurinchi]

I like the black mac book pro! I've also seen some 12" Toughbooks models that I really liked, but forgot the model numbers. They were shiny and very thin!

[jdrou]

I really liked the Toshiba Portege 660CDT when it was my only laptop about 10 years ago (bought on ebay). 2 inches thick but with a footprint comparable to the Thinkpad X40/X60 and one of the earliest notebooks with 32-bit CardBus slots instead of 16-bit PCMCIA. No USB or integrated networking but you can them with the card slot. Also the modular bay could take a 2nd primary battery rather than a special modular battery.

I still have a soft spot for the Dell Inspiron 8200/Latitude C840/Precision M50 'desktop replacement'-class laptop. One of the last laptops to have both a fixed optical drive AND a modular bay. The modular bay used the same battery as primary just as the Portege did. Also had some powerful video options for its time (GeForce 4 and Radeon 9000). Some significant lacks are no USB 2.0 and no booting from USB.

[Unknown_K]

Wasn't Toshiba one of the companies that used to give IBM's Thinkpads a run for their money for features and innovation in the 90's?

I like the Apple Wallstreet G3 series (nice having a built in SCSI port), wouldn't mind the thinner Pismo either. Gateway had some decent laptops in the P2 era (Solo series).

Pretty much all new laptops seem like they won't last 5 years in moderate use.

[GomJabbar]

My daughter came home from work the other day with a new employer issued laptop. It was a HP EliteBook. Looked pretty decent. I was surprised to see it had a matte display and a TrackPoint mouse!

[automobus]

I also like the Sony Vaio PCG-Z1A very much, mainly for its amazingly sturdy chassis, good looks, and light weight. Not as light as as Panasonic Y series of course, but still about 0.5 lb lighter than a 14.1" SXGA+ Thinkpad T series.

I got to use a Z1 for a few days. Like you, I was impressed with its weight and screen. I like some of the design touches, but I am bothered by some others.

My biggest complaints concern its software. Sony's drivers come in restrictive packages that would not extract for me, because I was not using the Sony OEM installation of Windows . And unlike ThinkPads, the hardware control functions (brightness, volume, wireless) require software drivers; the very drivers that refused to install. It makes me really appreciate ThinkPad embedded controls.

But supposing all the proprietary software was functioning as it should, then I like the Z1. Are we including slate-tablets as "laptops"?

[dr_st]

The inspiration for starting this thread came from the Panasonic ToughBook CF-Y4 that I received several days ago. This is quite possibly the most perfect laptop I have ever owned, and I have owned many

I would sure like to own, even briefly, one of those ultralight 14" SXGA+ Panasonics. They caught my eye a long time ago - no other laptop offers this blend of large size, built-in optical drive, and low weight. The T400s series comes close, but not quite there.

However, since the functionality of a laptop cannot be summarized just by the single parameter of size/weight ratio, I probably would not find those Panasonics to be perfect. The T400s series would probably be better for me in some ways, since I refuse to live without a trackpoint, and the keyboard is probably better on the Thinkpads too (this is based on my short experience with a 12" Toughbook - did not like the keyboard at all).

[pianowizard]

I still have a soft spot for the Dell Inspiron 8200

My first laptop was an Inspiron 8200 and I hated its shoddy build quality and >8lb weight.

Pretty much all new laptops seem like they won't last 5 years in moderate use.

I feel the same way. The biggest problem is that laptop manufacturers are cutting corners to make their laptops cheaper, thinner and lighter, while the components are getting more powerful. Consequently, these machines overheat easily, and they can't withstand mechanical assaults as well as the 2-inch-thick laptops that IBM and Toshiba used to make back in the early 1990s.

My biggest complaints concern its software. Sony's drivers come in restrictive packages that would not extract for me, because I was not using the Sony OEM installation of Windows

Interesting. I didn't know about this restriction. I do have the original recovery CDs. If you still have this Sony Z1 and if it still has the Windows XP COA sticker, I can send ISO files of these discs to you electronically, for free.

Are we including slate-tablets as "laptops"?

No.

I would sure like to own, even briefly, one of those ultralight 14" SXGA+ Panasonics. They caught my eye a long time ago - no other laptop offers this blend of large size, built-in optical drive, and low weight. The T400s series comes close, but not quite there.

You have known me long enough to know that screen resolution is extremely important to me. In this regard, the CF-Y4's 1400x1050 is far superior to the T400s's 1440x900. Like you, the Panasonic Y series caught my attention long ago, but at that time their prices were prohibitive and so I gradually forgot about them. Several weeks ago, I started to look for a light-weight but high-res laptop and I was about to pull the trigger on a 3-lb Sony Z series with 13" 1600x900 screen and internal optical drive, but all of a sudden I remembered the Panasonic Y series. So I looked up the Y4, Y5 and Y7 on eBay (I had to rule out the Y2 because it uses 1.8" hard drives) and was delighted that they had become really affordable. The Y4 weighs about 0.35 lb more than the Sony Z series, but the Y4 is much cheaper, its overall resolution is slightly higher and the vertical resolution is MUCH better, and it allows me to reuse the 250GB IDE HDD pulled from the T42 Thinkpad that I had just sold. Replacing the HDD of the Y4 was a painfully complicated process though, during which I cracked the optical drive cover a little bit. *SIGH*

However, since the functionality of a laptop cannot be summarized just by the single parameter of size/weight ratio, I probably would not find those Panasonics to be perfect. The T400s series would probably be better for me in some ways, since I refuse to live without a trackpoint, and the keyboard is probably better on the Thinkpads too (this is based on my short experience with a 12" Toughbook - did not like the keyboard at all).

It's too bad that you still haven't weaned off the trackpoint. I agree the Y4's keyboard is not great, although it didn't take me long to adapt to it.

[wgg]

I do have a huge softspot for mac's but if it had to be a PC then my favourite is Alienware!

[dr_st]

You have known me long enough to know that screen resolution is extremely important to me. In this regard, the CF-Y4's 1400x1050 is far superior to the T400s's 1440x900.

Yes indeed , and I totally agree with you, although for most of my tasks it wouldn't be _far_ superior, but superior nonetheless. When it was time for me to upgrade my work laptop to a T410, I fought hard to keep my T60 too, in part because of the greater usability the resolution presents to me.

However, while a slightly lower res would inconvenience me, I would not feel it limits me in a significant way, in the way the lack of my preferred keyboard layout and pointing device would. Yes, I would be able to adapt. But I don't see why I should. As long as I can get what I want, why would I change my habits towards using something, which I personally find inferior (even though I would not be arrogant enough to claim it universally inferior ). Now, once it's no longer possible to get what I like, I'll do my analysis and get the next best thing. That's life.

[Temetka]

Well I still have a huge soft spot for my very first laptop even though it was stolen from me. It was a Toshiba Satellite 720CDT. P75. 16MB Of RAM, CD Drive and I think a 200MB HD.

After that my next favorite is the Powerbook G3 Pismo. Man what a machine. 500MHz G3, 1GB of RAM, 8MB AGP ATI Rage128 video card, dual batteries and a 2nd hot swap bay. I could run for 9 hours on that thing. Built in wireless made all the much better.

I have a minor love affair with the T23 machines. My old one which I loved to death before I sold it had a 1.13GHz CPU, 1GB of RAM, the T30 battery and ultrabay battery, and the high res screen with built in wifi.

There is also the Compaq Armada M300. 500MHz P3, 4MB ATI Rage128, 10.4" LCD that OMG super bright. The battery fold behind the machine to lift it up about an inch and makes typing an absolute joy. I will own one of these again.

How about love for and entire series? I <3 the T4x line of machines. Always have and always will.

[AMATX]

My daughter came home from work the other day with a new employer issued laptop. It was a HP EliteBook. Looked pretty decent. I was surprised to see it had a matte display and a TrackPoint mouse!

By now, the original patent(s) on the trackpoint should have expired, so maybe we'll see more manufacturers incorporate this little gem into their laptops.

[pianowizard]

There is also the Compaq Armada M300. 500MHz P3, 4MB ATI Rage128, 10.4" LCD that OMG super bright.

I had an M300 for a short while. The LCD is 12.1" not 10.4", but I agree it's extremely bright, even though it was already 8 or 9 years old!

By now, the original patent(s) on the trackpoint should have expired, so maybe we'll see more manufacturers incorporate this little gem into their laptops.

Actually, there used to be many more laptops with trackpoints than there are today. Now we see them almost only on Lenovo's, HP's and Dell's "business" laptops, but in the old days even "consumer" laptops had trackpoints.

[mediasponge]

My current company issued Dell Precision M2400 is pretty nice. Looks like that model has already been replaced by the M4500. The M2400 does have a trackpoint. I mostly use it on a dock with the lid closed, tho. Light enough to travel with, but fast enough to run anything I need.

[jdrou]

My current company issued Dell Precision M2400 is pretty nice. Looks like that model has already been replaced by the M4500. The M2400 does have a trackpoint. I mostly use it on a dock with the lid closed, tho. Light enough to travel with, but fast enough to run anything I need.

The M4500 replaces the M4400; there doesn't seem to be any replacement for the M2400 at this point.

[mediasponge]

The M4500 replaces the M4400; there doesn't seem to be any replacement for the M2400 at this point.

True. The M2400 is 14", the M4500 is 15". At my previous company, I had a Fujitsu S6240 that was 14" and 4:3 that was smaller and lighter than the M2400, but a little underpowered compared to the M2400. That was a nice unit to travel with.

[cogitordi]

I don't see how anyone cannot be impressed by the build quality of the aluminum Apple notebooks. Apple is innovating hardware design like no one else. (Lenovo is chasing market trends so feverishly that it takes me a day of effort every time I want to understand all the models and variants of Thinkpads that are currently available. Without Bill's site and Thinkwiki.org, I'd be lost.)

The problem with Apple's portables for me is... I think they are ugly. Apart from their exceptional build quality, the other attraction that they offer is that they use OS X, which is an excellent OS for a programmer. (It's 2010 and you still don't get a compiler with M-Windows.)

Corporations and products come and go, so I concentrate on what works for me. I continue to be impressed by the Dell Mini 10v because of its ability to use OS X without causing me pain. The 10v was discontinued earlier this year (2010) but it's still easy to find used. And *all* the hardware works with OS X.

The build quality of the 10v is adequate, the construction being all plastic. The Atom CPU runs hot -- I use a simple Targus PA243U stand (folded in half) that I bought cheap from a surplus store to improve the air-flow.

A 10.1" 1024x600 screen is agony with any other operating system. But it is in fact a pleasure to use when the OS scales its dialogs and other contents beautifully and does anti-aliasing right. OS X is rendered in PDF and the usability of OS X on a small screen is superlative. The user can configure Spaces (virtual desktops) and Exposé (application switching) to make it easy to use mouse gestures to navigate among applications and desktops.

Although using OS X on anything but Apple hardware is (*ahem*) a personal experiment only (*ahem*), I'm greatly pleased by the stability and the usability of this combination of software and hardware. I've been using a 10v-OSX portable for over a year now and I must say that having a Thinkpad at home and a 10v hackintosh in my backpack has done something for me that I didn't foresee happening so soon: I don't need a desktop computer anymore.

[Maliha]

it takes me a day of effort every time I want to understand all the models and variants of Thinkpads that are currently available. Without Bill's site and Thinkwiki.org, I'd be lost.)

Hi,

You can bookmark this site:- http://www.lenovo.com/psref/, it contains information about all variants of thinkpads except CTO models.

[j-dawg]

The Powerbook G4 12" has always been my favorite Mac laptop. I got a chance to buy one with a broken screen very cheaply some time in April. It's been my school computer ever since I repaired it. It's a nice little machine: powerful enough to run OS X Tiger and Youtube videos, small and light, looks good, and the only Apple product ever given a decent keyboard.

It does have its flaws: thin aluminum skin, poor build quality, an excessive number of screws, miserable to work on, poorly-designed cooling system, terribly-designed power adapter, the list goes on. But it's small and cute and it runs OS X which, while not my preferred operating system, is a breath of fresh air. My particular example was poorly treated by its former owner, but it still gets compliments from those with fond memories of the model.

On the whole, for about $50 invested I'm happy with it. At the prices they go for on the market, though, I'd just buy a netbook instead. I am really enamored of the Nokia Booklet 3G: having briefly played with one, I've never used another netbook that felt so substantial and well-built. At its current used/fleaBay market prices, I probably wouldn't put up with the subpar performance, but if it dropped to $200 or $250 and I needed a computer, I'd be tempted.

[asiafish]

I was always a fan of ThinkPads and of Macs, but since late 2008 have been Mac-only.

My newest one is the 11.6" MacBook Air, and I also own the top-end 15" MacBook Pro with high-res matte display, 2.66GHz Core i7 and the 512MB GPU loaded with a 500 GB HD at 7200 RPM and 8 GB of RAM. Despite all of that massive 15" power, the little Air with its paltry 2 GB of RAM and tiny 128 GB SSD is now my primary computer, with the big one only really used for gaming (in Windows) and editing photos and videos for fun. The Air is my only work machine, and performs brilliantly. In fact, even the 2 GB isn't a weakness as virtual memory is so fast on the SSD as to be almost indistinguishable from the real thing.

[Bookworm]

I have always wanted a Tandy model 200, Bondwell Model 2, and an Apple IIc+.

[rek]

I very recently (today!) received an HP Elitebook 2540p for work, which unintentionally replaces my personal X60s. This is HP's equivalent to the X201. In general it's a very nice laptop: being part of their high end laptop range, it has many features ThinkPads have, just implemented differently. Some comparison notes;

- screen - it's alright, but wouldn't go out of my way to say it's great - it's no Macbook Pro or FlexView. I assume it's similar to a modern Lenovo panel in viewing angles etc. It's 12.1" 1280x800, I kind of wish it was 1440x900 like an X201s

- keyboard - it feels very different to a ThinkPad keyboard; not better, not worse, just different. The keys feel softer and quieter, but still a positive feeling to them and in general very good. Typing is as quick and accurate as it is my T60 (and was my X60s). Editing keys are in a 1x6 row rather than a 2x3 block, but at least they're still dedicated keys.

- pointing stick/trackpad - pointing stick motion is fluid and natural like a real TrackPoint. The tip is rubbery and concave, and the proper IBM 'cat tongue' tips don't fit. There is no middle scroll button for the pointing stick which is a shame. Trackpad is excellent and supports multitouch gestures; as good as an Apple one, though smaller.

- lights & feature buttons - the lights are brighter and more obtrusive than the green ThinkPad LEDs. The feature buttons (volume, wifi on/off, etc.) are capacitive rather than tactile buttons, which I'm not a fan of.

- build quality - brilliant. It feels very solid and has a "built strong out of a hunk of metal" feel. Nothing flexes at all. Closest thing I can compare it to is a Motorola Droid smartphone, there's simply no way this is going to rattle or fall apart on you. The screen hinges and latches are great and feel very secure. I'd consider it equal and possibly exceeding the standard you'd expect of T/X series ThinkPads.

- aesthetics - the brushed metal and black plastic go pretty well together. The screen bezel is kinda ugly with rubber pads and what not, but every manufacturer seems to have ugly bezels nowadays.

- the fingerprint scanner is much better than the ones in any ThinkPad I've ever used

- the pop-out ThinkLight equivalent is neat.

- speed & battery - being an i5-M580 with the latest Intel SSD, for anything not involving graphics it's about as fast as the HP Z400 workstation on my office desk Haven't had it long enough to gauge battery life but I hope it doesn't suffer from the fast CPU; it's got a small flush-fitting battery so I don't expect more than 2-2.5 hours of general use out of it.

In general I like it a lot, once getting over the fact it's not a ThinkPad so expect things to be a little different. Unlike a MacBook Pro (which drove me insane after working with it for a month) there's nothing I can point to and say, "I really dislike using this laptop because of X".

[AMATX]

I'm partial to the Commodore 64, myself. However, software upgrades are a bit hard to come by these days. Screen resolution could be better, too.

[pianowizard]

Earlier this week, I bought a Dell Precision M90 with 17.0" WUXGA and I am sooooooo happy with this purchase. It's a very good laptop, although I am even more excited about the format factor in general. Before this M90, the largest laptops I had owned were 15.0" and 15.4", but I had played with three or four 17.0" WUXGA laptops in computer stores and liked them all. Some people dislike such humongous laptops because it's a pain to carry them even for just several minutes -- even the AC adapter is HUGE! But this M90 will only be moved over very short distances, so weight isn't an issue.

1920x1200 is perfect for 17.0". The pixel density is 133.19 DPI, about the same as 1600x1200 on 15.0" (133.33 DPI). Things are large enough for comfortable viewing, and the real estate is reasonably high so that I can do some semi-serious work on this laptop. The screen is obviously a TN panel but it's one of the better ones I have seen. The build quality is quite good as well. But surprisingly, the keyboard doesn't have a trackpoint. That doesn't bother me much since I prefer the touchpad, but I do like having both.

After getting this M90, I decided I no longer needed the Sony Vaio Z1A and so I sold it on Craigslist.

But my all-time favorite laptop is still the Panasonic Toughbook CF-Y4 that I raved about in my opening post. And I am editing this post on this Toughbook.

[A31]

Some of the Sony Vaio laptops and Dell XPS laptops I quite like, and the Alienware laptops.

[ajkula66]

A31 wrote:

Some of the Sony Vaio laptops and Dell XPS laptops I quite like, and the Alienware laptops.

I'll pass on Sony and Dell any day of the week, but have always considered Alienware to be the notebook equivalent of Monty Python's "...and now for something completely different..."...

Many moons ago someone brought me a corpse that they bought on feebay, an older P4 unit, in hopes that I could resurrect it. Although I wasn't able to fix it (got it to boot, but it kept on shutting down shortly afterwards) I was pretty impressed with build quality and the design of its innards...if I had money to burn I'd buy one of these older monstrous-looking units to play with for a while...

[ZaZ]

The notebook I've been jonesing for of late is the Asus EP121. It's a slate with touch and pen input. It's kind of an ipad turbocharged. It's got an i3 ULV, a 64GB SSD, which is more than enough for me, and an IPS screen. I'm just not sure how I'd do without a keyboard and whether it would run too hot, being so thin. If you want to talk pie in the sky notebooks, if Fujitsu ever put a WXGA+ LCD and a LV or ULV CPU into the T900, I'd consider dumping my X200t.

[automobus]

Are we including slate-tablets as "laptops"?

No.

the Asus EP121. It's a slate with touch and pen input.

If I may break the rule for just a minute: I like Motion Computing slates. They have a good selection of docks and other accessories. I just wish Motion would provide service manuals: ThinkPads have spoiled me with their repairability. They are made by Compal and ASUS. Both are well built.

[ex0dus]

Fujitsu T2020 - beautiful IPS display, but horrible bouncy keyboard