Thinkpads Forum

http://www.netbooknews.de/11105/lenovo- ... d-details/

So... single-core Athlon Neo. Interesting choice. Not what I would've picked, although admittedly you do get a better GPU than Intel's CULV platform (basically what's in the current X200s, just with slower CPUs) that way. CPU TDP is 15 W, I believe 18 W for a Neo X2 (hopefully they can offer that,) versus 5.5 for a single-core CULV, 10 for a dual.

And Acer can do a dual CULV for $400. This is $450, and it's not built like a ThinkPad. Is a faster GPU, a TrackPoint, and a possibly decent (but not ThinkPad layout, and chiclet, although there are quite good chiclet boards out there) keyboard worth a slower, more power hungry CPU and $50?

Although not as horrible as I had originally expected, I still can't get over that keyboard... What are they thinking? I swear, if they start throwing that keyboard on the T or X series, I'll spontaneously combust, and soon after convert to Mac.

I really hope they dont bring over the styling to the next-gen X and T series. White or red colored Thinkpad is not a Thinkpad no matter what they call it

The ugliest keyboard I've ever seen on Thinkpad design... Gosh...

I'm in a wait and see mode on the keyboard. A good chiclet board can be cheaper to make and still offer 99% of the benefits of the keycaps that Lenovo currently uses, without compromising feel - and structural rigidity of the laptop can be better (although it is harder to remove the keyboard for maintenance, then again, it wouldn't be any harder than a T60.) The MacBook keyboards, for instance, are just scissor switch underneath, and feel pretty decent.

Maybe it is just me but I can't see what you dislike about the keyboard ... it looks fairly standard.

It's not the traditional 7-row layout that most ThinkPads use, but people are also complaining that it's a chiclet. I personally don't have a problem with chiclets if they're done well.

Why not regular classic X series model with 11.1" 1366x768 display ? The X100e is not a total fail but the biggest mistake is the misusing of the ThinkPad brand name ! Lenovo, this is not ThinkPad.

Unfortunately, looks like we're going to have to, when recommending ThinkPads, say "T, W, or X2xx or greater" from here on out.

(A leaked roadmap I read implied that the R series was getting dropped, the SL being positioned where R is now (ugh,) and presumably the ThinkPad Edge and X100e now fit below SL.)

Granted, a T series on sale is usually pretty cheap, but I still don't like it.

That said, I'm in a wait and see mode on how good this model is. It's no ThinkPad, but it might be a good machine for some uses.

bhtooefr wrote:It's not the traditional 7-row layout that most ThinkPads use, but people are also complaining that it's a chiclet. I personally don't have a problem with chiclets if they're done well.

It is not a chicklet. You can find a chicklet on a Casio calculator or Sinclair ZX81.

The X100e keyboard ist pretty much like the regular Thinkpad keyboard, with typical scissor mechanics. Just the shape of the plastic top is different, which also keeps bread crumps away from falling into the keyboard frame.

Trackpoint, WWAN, a usable (not 600 vertical pixel rubbish) small display... I'm watching this X100e with guarded optimism. And the hope there'll be a dual-core version sooner rather than later

Either that, or keeping close tabs on the X60 SXGA+ thread for a breakthrough in the cabling department...

beeblebrox wrote:Just the shape of the plastic top is different, which also keeps bread crumps away from falling into the keyboard frame.

no problem with bread crumps, i don't eat when i work. and the keyboard looks exactly like a macbook pro keyboard - unusable.

mattbiernat wrote:a macbook pro keyboard - unusable.

I'm typing this on a Apple desktop keyboard, the same kind they've got in all of their laptops now. It's a markedly different feel than the Thinkpads', but definitely usable.

The Apple desktop boards, from what I hear, actually do feel rather different from what they put in the laptops, even though they look the same.

I actually don't mind a *good* chiclet (i.e. flat-top, non-angled keycaps) keyboard. I've used the Apple desktop keyboards, and second to the older compact-footprint IBM keyboards they're actually some of my favorite.

My beef with the new "ThinkPad" models is more what they represent: they represent the use of the ThinkPad brand to promote what is definitely not a business-targeted machine. To me that just reeks of bad, or at least mis-guided management. It seems that Lenovo thinks that the ThinkPad brand is valuable due to its recognition rather than the quality it stood for. They seem to ignore, or at least under-value the importance of the enterprise-level quality that IBM gained fame for. I'm afraid that this trend will continue until ThinkPads are little more than business-ish machines (i.e. the same cheap consumer components, but marketed towards businesses.)

I've always been one for customization of my machines though, so this doesn't bother me that much. I've already got plans and have sourced materials for my next build: an X200 base, AFFS+ screen, WWAN, dual SSDs, and additional carbon-fiber reinforcement of the top and bottom casing. If the new CollegePads become commonplace, I'll just move on to my other love: reconditioning older ThinkPads. I have no problem using a low-power machine (most of my work is text editing, a bit of web design, and a lot of C/Java coding) -- heck, I use my rebuilt X40 for a ton of stuff, and that's not exactly a speed demon.

My primary machine is covered until the end of 2012 with both accidental damage coverage and on-site repair, so I've got quite a while before I have to worry about replacing my main laptop. Still... Sigh. Guess it means more DIY (and fewer warranties) in my future.

ThinkRob wrote:what is definitely not a business-targeted machine.

Business continues to evolve, if the events of the last decade have shown anything, it is that business practices and models from the 1990s are no longer viable.

There are numerous classes of businesses that literally run off PDAs as their front end devices today, that simply didn't exist even 5 years ago.

Cheers,

Bill B.

bill bolton wrote: Business continues to evolve, if the events of the last decade have shown anything, it is that business practices and models from the 1990s are no longer viable.

There are numerous classes of businesses that literally run off PDAs as their front end devices today, that simply didn't exist even 5 years ago.

That's a fair point.

I suppose I was referring more to things like build quality and post-sale support rather than the actual capabilities of the device.

Businesses, as far as I've seen, want hardware that is reliable and that is backed by a dependable vendor. They don't want hardware that is built as cheaply as possible, and thus is more prone to failure (as failure costs time and thus money). I get the impression that Lenovo is very much participating in a "race to the bottom" price-wise, which (barring miracles in material sciences) will result in the use of cheaper and cheaper parts, less stringent QA (since test samples aren't sold, the more spot-checks you do the more it affects your bottom line), and a more... "tolerant" manufacturing process. I think that the issues with the first-run T400/T500 models and the introduction of the SL "ThinkPads" have indicated that this is already happening. I see the X100e as a continuation of this.

I will, however, reserve final judgement until I actually see the unit in person. I hope that I'm wrong, and that the unit is cheap because of the decreased cost of low-end tech. I'd love to have a subnotebook that was as durable as the ThinkPad name would imply -- I just am skeptical, given the last couple years of the Lenovo's handling of the brand.

qviri wrote: I'm typing this on a Apple desktop keyboard, the same kind they've got in all of their laptops now. It's a markedly different feel than the Thinkpads', but definitely usable.

well it depends on a person and the apple keyboard that you have. the older macbooks had not bad keyboard, in fact probably better than most manufacturers at that time (besides thinkpads of course).
as for the new macbook pro key board, in my case it would be probably usable for the first 5 minutes, after which I would throw the entire laptop out of the window.

ThinkRob wrote:They don't want hardware that is built as cheaply as possible....

That depends entirely on the business case at hand. If the device is likely to get lost - or damaged by force majruer incidents - cheap as possible may well be a very desirable business attribute.

Cheers,

Bill B.

bill bolton wrote: That depends entirely on the business case at hand. If the device is likely to get lost - or damaged by force majruer incidents - cheap as possible may well be a very desirable business attribute.

I see your point, but I'm still not sure that doing this to the ThinkPad line is the way to go. If a business wants the cheapest notebook possible, there's no reason not for them to order, say, IdeaPads in bulk. ThinkPads were aimed squarely at the businesses that *did* want solidly-made hardware. I'm not sure what Lenovo hopes to accomplish by changing this. It really does seem that the only reason that they're releasing this sort of thing under the ThinkPad label rather than the IdeaPad or "house brand" labels is to milk the brand name -- "ThinkPad" carries connotations of reliable, top-end gear, and while the use of the label on laptops such as this may serve to get some businesses to buy machines that they otherwise wouldn't, it further depletes what many are already seeing as a "stretched" brand.

ThinkRob wrote:If a business wants the cheapest notebook possible, there's no reason not for them to order, say, IdeaPads in bulk.

There's no point if the Ideapad does not have the configuration attributes a business needs.... such as a trackpoint for instance. Its already starting to become clear that the business market for netbooks running against a specific corporate SOE cloud is somewhat different to the consumer market for them running against public clouds.

ThinkRob wrote:ThinkPads were aimed squarely at the businesses that *did* want solidly-made hardware.

Firstly, businesses generally aren't prepared to pay the premium prices for solidly-made hardware that they once were. That has been increasingly the case since the Y2K issue shot IT budgets to pieces nearly a decade ago, and the whole market has responded to it in the style of offerings. More recently the GFC has put increased pressure on both capital and operational costs, so the trend towards cheaper technology is not going to change any time soon.

I do a lot of work with large national and multi-national corporations......they used to supply their staff with a Desktop PC and a Laptop, now the staff get a laptop (typically on a 2-4 year replacement cycle) and a PDA (typically on a 1-2 year replacment cycle). I am see that changing again, and before too long before a netbook is going to be in the mix..... the interesting question is going to be which device will fall away? Will it be the laptop or the PDA?

Secondly, Lenovo still supplies ThinkPad models targeted squarely at the current business demand for laptop systems.... so what is the problem?

ThinkRob wrote:I'm not sure what Lenovo hopes to accomplish by changing this.

Most likely its looking to establish a position in a new business market sectors that aren't like the existing ones.... just like IBM did when the PC was introduced, and Compaq did when they enterted the market with (not very) portable PCs, etc etc!

Cheers,

Bill B.

I don't understand people's complaints. This is the Thinkpad netbook that so many people were asking for. You knew it was going to come with a number of compromises to keep the cost down and appeal to a broader audience. Being a Thinkpad everyone knew it was going to come at a premium to other netbooks. At $450 I think it hits the target at the "premium" netbook lines. Wait for a sale or the outlet and it will drop to the $350-400 range.

Official information on the X100e is here: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/landing_pages ... 2010/X100e
They don't show the white model, but its an option shown in the video. I think the black/red option looks nice. I feel a burgundy color has been long accepted as a premium business color (makes me think of expensive leather seats). I've been waiting for an 11" Thinkpad to play with. I've been tempted by the U110 but its glossy keyboard/screen and lack of trackpoint has kept me away.

The only real problem here that I see is that they didn't keep the 7th row on the keyboard.

bhtooefr wrote:(A leaked roadmap I read implied that the R series was getting dropped, the SL being positioned where R is now (ugh,) and presumably the ThinkPad Edge and X100e now fit below SL.).

The differences between the R-series and the T-series have been quickly disappearing such that the lines and the price points have become almost indistinguishable. It makes since for Lenovo to separate their flagship model from the budget model.

I think this looks terrific. All of the portability of a MacBook Air or an X301 at a third the price.

I think Lenovo will sell a ton of these. Many people (myself included) are willing to spend a lot more to get an ergonomic package. A netbook would be totally adequate for my courtroom use, but the tiny touchpad and keyboard, not to mention the cheap appearance make it a non-starter. When it comes time to replace my 2nd gen MacBook Air at the end of the year I'll give the X100e a serious look.

I think this thing looks great too. For what it is..... Not everyone needs a "real" computer in a size this small. For me its a secondary device to my T500. I just bought a X200 for my on the go laptop and this thing would have done the trick almost as good for half the money. I looked at other "netbooks", but the ATOM just blows and no WWAN is a killer. Bravo Lenovo!

Nubulin wrote:I think this thing looks great too. For what it is..... Not everyone needs a "real" computer in a size this small. For me its a secondary device to my T500. I just bought a X200 for my on the go laptop and this thing would have done the trick almost as good for half the money. I looked at other "netbooks", but the ATOM just blows and no WWAN is a killer. Bravo Lenovo!

I think that the "ThinkPad" X100e is one heck of a good netbook. I just don't think it's a ThinkPad -- at least I don't think it's in the same league as most of the machines that share that name.

Specs-wise, and based on the (limited) reviews, it looks like it's the best netbook on the market at the moment. Specs-wise, and based on the (limited) reviews, it also looks like it's the cheapest (in all senses of the word) ThinkPad on the market.

Had Lenovo offered this under the IdeaPad moniker instead of trying to milk the ThinkPad brand even more, I'd be doing nothing but singing their praises. Unfortunately, they didn't -- and that choice reflects (in my opinion) a misguided understanding of the value of the ThinkPad brand. IBM built the brand by making high-quality notebooks and by backing them with the world's best support and service. Lenovo seems to think that the value of the ThinkPad brand is its ability to move machines and seems to have far less interest in carrying on IBM's traditions of indestructable build quality and exceptional service.

Oh well. All things are change, I suppose...

Everyone always claims that this or that product is "not what business users want." As an enterprise IT veteran, I can tell you that the x100e looks fairly nice, but has one major problem: the AMD CPU. It's well-known that current AMD mobile CPUs run hotter and perform poorer than equivalent Intel CPUs, and there is little reason to put them in a business laptop except cost. The GPU may be nice, but who cares? VERY few people use 3D apps in a business environment, and fullscreen teleconference/video/youtube/whatever is CPU-limited, not GPU-limited.

So, in buying an x100e, you are essentially cheaping out on the CPU while paying extra for a GPU that is unnecessarily powerful, and also sacrificing battery life (which is actually important for small mobile devices like this, where people will use them on planes). You are also risking potential heat/fan noise issues.

Overall, were I an IT purchaser looking to standardize on a netbook, there is no way I would recommend an x100e without extensive testing, and I don't think that the stats are good enough to even warrant that testing. It has nothing to do with the keyboard (which, I can guarantee, most users won't give half a crap about), and absolutely nothing to do with the color.

That said, I already ordered one for myself, as it is the first netbook I've seen with a trackpoint .

AER wrote:It's well-known that current AMD mobile CPUs run hotter and perform poorer than equivalent Intel CPUs, and there is little reason to put them in a business laptop except cost. The GPU may be nice, but who cares? VERY few people use 3D apps in a business environment, and fullscreen teleconference/video/youtube/whatever is CPU-limited, not GPU-limited.

The X100e uses a new platform from AMD (the CPU is being released now), and while I agree on previous AMD offerings being lacklustre, I haven't seen much in terms of reviews of power/performance of the Athlon Neo.

Additionally, video can be very effectively GPU-accelerated, and I think Adobe is supposed to get GPU acceleration for Flash video Real Soon Now.

Nubulin wrote:I think this thing looks great too. For what it is..... Not everyone needs a "real" computer in a size this small. For me its a secondary device to my T500. I just bought a X200 for my on the go laptop and this thing would have done the trick almost as good for half the money. I looked at other "netbooks", but the ATOM just blows and no WWAN is a killer. Bravo Lenovo!

Neo = Atom


I wouldn't touch a neo if my life depended on it. 15w for a single core is horrible. My p8600 (2.4ghz dualcore) is 25w, so only 10w more for a hell of a lot of processing power. The atom is 2w. Even though the neo is 64bit, lenovo is only offering a 32bit version of win 7 for it. I don't see the purpose in that.... I would really hate to see how this processor runs win 7 in general. I know using an atom with it is a chore.

It's also a heck of a lot of money for a "netbook". I saw a $570 x200 (only celeron, but that would cut it) on the lenovo outlet a month ago. That would be a much better choice over this "netbook."

The x200 has a lot of nice features, including even longer battery life (almost 9.5 hours w/ a 9 cell battery), channels to divert water through the laptop in case you spill water on it.

I can't really figure out how lenovo can justify the $450 cost and call this a business thinkpad.

Interesting info, Synthetickiller. I agree that the X100e is really just a netbook. For people who need a truly powerful 11.6" laptop, Dell's Alienware M11x is a much better choice:

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-31045_1-10428491-269.html

I've been a huge fan of thinkpads since the 700c days.

This venture by lenovo worries me about the direction they are taking the thinkpad brand. It was always known as a serious business machine. Not flashy, not pulling any gimmics. Thats why I own an x200 and not the x100e or edge.

Personally, I think this smartbook & netbook fad will die off once the economy gets better. If you need ultra portable, there's the x200 and x300 series. Anything else, just get a regular notebook, T,SL, or W series depending on your needs.

Netbook processors are garabge if you want to do any true multitasking. Forget about data crunching. In a world of dualcore and quad core mobile processors, the neo is just not enough for a business user. If you surf the web, check email, use just a spread sheet (not all at once), and don't mind sticking with xp, then a netbook will work, but if you want a current OS like WIN 7 and any sort of power, these are not the processors for you.