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Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

Older ThinkPads.. from the 600, the 7xx, the iSeries, 300, 500, the Transnote and, of course, the 701
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oeuvre
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Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#1 Post by oeuvre » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:19 pm

IBM ThinkPad 600E running MS-DOS 6.22 + Windows for Workgroups 3.11 and Windows 98SE... amazingly painless to setup with System Commander 7. Pictures https://imgur.com/a/YYUPF
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#2 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:31 pm

Not legit enough.

Everyone needs a Thinkpad 755** or 760** machine running Windows 95.

If you can cheat and easily plug in USB drives, it is too new.

I have a Magnavox Metalis 286 on the way. A copy of DOS on that thing and were flying. It happens to also use D-batteries as a power source. No dangerous rebuilding for me!
Probably should be Thinkpad16by10.

Looking For: 386 laptop, IBM or not.

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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#3 Post by oeuvre » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:04 pm

Please share pictures when the Magnavox arrives. Those were cool.

Also I am trying to eke out more conventional memory in MS-DOS 6.22... I got 540K free but it is the PCMCIA card services that are killing it. Tried memmaker and it actually made it worse so I went back to my configuration.
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#4 Post by dr_st » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:58 am

Well, you know how it is - go to VOGONs, post your config/autoexec files, and we can try to help you there. Or we can do it here, if you prefer. :)
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#5 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:29 am

Move that stuff to UMA or HMA, that's what config.sys is for.

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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#6 Post by MikalE » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:00 am

I haven't seen a config or autoexec file in over a decade.
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#7 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:15 am

AFAIK those files were last USED in W2K.
XP had them with extension .NT, but they were usually empty, just there to help older programs run.

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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#8 Post by oeuvre » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:49 pm

Here they are

AUTOEXEC.BAT

Code: Select all

@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\CDROM
SET MTCPCFG=C:\NET\TCP.CFG
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
LH /L:0;2,272 /S C:\DOS\ENVIMAX N+
LH /L:0;1,16400 /S C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
LH C:\CRYSTAL\CWDMIX /C=13 /L=13
LH /L:1,6144 DOSKEY
LH /L:0;1,3328 /S MOUSE
LH /L:0;3,42432 /S C:\WINDOWS\net start
LH /L:0;3,6352 /S C:\CDROM\SHCDX33F.COM /D:MSCD000
SET PS2MSG=C:\THINKPAD\PS2.MSG
SET PATH=C:\CRYSTAL;C:\THINKPAD;%PATH%;C:\CARDWIZ
CONFIG.SYS

Code: Select all

SWITCHES /F
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS /Q /TESTMEM:OFF /NUMHANDLES=128
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM I=B000-B7FF X=D000-D7FF AUTO NOTR
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=11,0
FILES=50
LASTDRIVE=G
FCBS=1,0
STACKS=0,0
DEVICEHIGH /L:0;2,8112 /S =C:\DOS\POWER.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\CRYSTAL\CWDINIT.EXE
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,12048 =C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICEHIGH /L:2,11264 =C:\CDROM\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:MSCD000
DEVICEHIGH /L:2,4560 =C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS

rem SystemSoft CardSoft/16(TM) PCMCIA Drivers
devicehigh=C:\CARDWIZ\CARDXTND.SYS
devicehigh=C:\CARDWIZ\SSCBTI.SYS /NUMADA:2 /ADA1SKTS:1 /ADA2SKTS:1
devicehigh=C:\CARDWIZ\CS.SYS /POLL:1
devicehigh=C:\CARDWIZ\CSALLOC.EXE
devicehigh=C:\CARDWIZ\CARDID.SYS
installhigh=C:\CARDWIZ\CS_APM.EXE
Output of mem /c

Code: Select all

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

  Name           Total       =   Conventional   +   Upper Memory
  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
  MSDOS       14,125   (14K)     14,125   (14K)          0    (0K)
  HIMEM        1,120    (1K)      1,120    (1K)          0    (0K)
  EMM386       3,120    (3K)      3,120    (3K)          0    (0K)
  POWER           80    (0K)         80    (0K)          0    (0K)
  CARDXTND    24,928   (24K)     24,928   (24K)          0    (0K)
  CS          12,544   (12K)     12,544   (12K)          0    (0K)
  CARDID       2,480    (2K)      2,480    (2K)          0    (0K)
  CS_APM       1,888    (2K)      1,888    (2K)          0    (0K)
  COMMAND      2,928    (3K)      2,656    (3K)        272    (0K)
  SMARTDRV    29,040   (28K)     12,640   (12K)     16,400   (16K)
  PROTMAN        400    (0K)        400    (0K)          0    (0K)
  XCEMNDIS    22,480   (22K)     22,480   (22K)          0    (0K)
  NDISHLP      1,440    (1K)      1,440    (1K)          0    (0K)
  SETVER         448    (0K)          0    (0K)        448    (0K)
  --------        80    (0K)          0    (0K)         80    (0K
  DOSKEY       3,968    (4K)          0    (0K)      3,968    (4K)
  MOUSE        3,328    (3K)          0    (0K)      3,328    (3K)
  POWER        4,672    (5K)          0    (0K)      4,672    (5K
  VIDE-CDD     5,056    (5K)          0    (0K)      5,056    (5K)
  IFSHLP       3,904    (4K)          0    (0K)      3,904    (4K)
  SSCBTI         416    (0K)          0    (0K)        416    (0K)
  SHCDX33F     6,352    (6K)          0    (0K)      6,352    (6K)
  
  Free       584,992  (571K)    553,264  (540K)     31,728   (31K)

Memory Summary:

  Type of Memory       Total   =    Used    +    Free
  ----------------  ----------   ----------   ----------
  Conventional         653,312      100,048      553,264
  Upper                 76,624       44,896       31,728
  Reserved                   0            0            0
  Extended (XMS)*   67,031,216    3,450,032   63,581,184
  ----------------  ----------   ----------   ----------
  Total memory      67,761,152    3,594,976   64,166,17
  Total under 1 MB     729,936      144,944      584,992
  Total Expanded (EMS)                33,947,648 (33,152K
  Free Expanded (EMS)*                33,538,048 (32,752K

  * EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
    Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.

  Largest executable program size        553,136   (540K)
  Largest free upper memory block         25,984    (25K)
  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.
Output of mem /f /p

Code: Select all

Free Conventional Memory:

  Segment         Total
  -------   -----------------
   00EE2          224    (0K)
   00EF0           32    (0K)
   017F8       88,992   (87K)
   02DB2      466,128  (455K)
   
  Total Free: 555,376  (542K)

Free Upper Memory:

  Region   Largest Free     Total Free      Total Size
  ------  --------------  --------------  --------------
      1     3,456   (3K)    3,632   (4K)   27,456  (27K)
      2     2,480   (2K)    2,480   (2K)   16,384  (16K)
      3    24,144  (24K)   24,160  (24K)   32,768  (32K)
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#9 Post by dr_st » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:59 pm

Surprised that it says "largest free upper memory block = 25kb", yet still loads a whole lot of smaller stuff into conventional memory. I guess maybe the PCMCIA drivers themselves do not support being loaded into high memory?

What if you try the DEVICEHIGH and LOADHIGH without /L and /S switches?

Do you really need the PCMCIA drivers in DOS? If you need them sometimes, and in other cases you want more conventional memory, you can create different boot options.
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#10 Post by oeuvre » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:52 pm

Removing the /L and /S makes it worse. The best I can get is 542K. I think for now I'll leave it as is since everything works fine but if I need more than 600K for a game or program I can just use another config.sys I configured without the drivers.
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#11 Post by Cooler22 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:41 pm

Some bias from my part, but the 701c is a real adventure. IBM made it so different compared to the rest of the 7XX series (except for the T's). Its the only machine with real FM synthesis, it also did not have the typical bento box system making it different from the rest of the other systems. There are also many hidden upgrades such as possible native EDO support, Cardbus and even a graphics card upgrade. Its truly a system that is painful but is so fascinating. It was as if it had a completely different design aspect such the removable CPU seen in the 755 series and can even be considered to be downgraded. Furthermore the plastic on these laptops are fragile and the paint is very sticky, making them look a bit wonky. But the image of running one in its final form is what motivates me to work with Thinkpads in general.

Sorry for the long rant, I just love Thinkpads! :lol:

PS: Nice 600E, one of the last iteration of the classic bento box design before being somewhat modernized.

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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#12 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:19 pm

I have to disagree. The 770 was the last bento box unit. It still was a box. No rounded front, a THICK optical drive, the LCD display that screamed 1996, and the last rear facing dock port. The 600E looks too much like the T2x, which was modernized.

The 701C an interesting piece of kit. I still would take my 755CDV anyday of the week. While the 701C was massively innovative, it lacked on some really basic levels. What is a FM modulator without the ability to copy software to it because everyone misplaces the Floppy Drive. It also has less ports with the replicator on than my 755CDV does with no replicator. Now I'm not saying the 701C is a bad machine, quite far from it. I was one of those things to say "I MADE IT!" and then forget about it. That is exactly the butterfly keyboard. Same with the ultraport, and the Ultrabay TV Tuner, among others. 755CDV/CV also falls in that category.
Probably should be Thinkpad16by10.

Looking For: 386 laptop, IBM or not.

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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#13 Post by oeuvre » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:12 pm

Thanks for the compliments.

The 600/E/X have rear docking ports too. I'd call it a stepping stone between the 770 and the T20 in terms of IBM design. I believe the 600 series was the last ThinkPad to have a slider for brightness.

Speaking of 770s, I took a risk on this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/152717333136
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#14 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:18 pm

It is an IBM Thinkpad. You should be good to go with an AC adapter. I wish you the best of luck with that machine.
Probably should be Thinkpad16by10.

Looking For: 386 laptop, IBM or not.

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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#15 Post by shawross » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:33 pm

oeuvre wrote:Speaking of 770s, I took a risk on this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/152717333136
The Ebayer said it was never tested and to give him the benefit of the doubt he might not have a power pack.

But the suspense would kill me and secondhand power packs can normally be picked up cheaply for old thinkpads.
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#16 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:37 pm

Well, at least he is buying a laptop that he can easily obtain a powerbrick for. My Magnavox has NO power brick and isnt easily obtained. It does use D cells though. Really, my Magnavox shouldnt be apart of this thread, ill put all the little nitty gritty in a new thread when it arrives on Friday.

Again, its an IBM Thinkpad. Ive never seen an IBM Thinkpad that hasn't showed any signs of life when plugged in except one T42, and those are known to have the leadfree solder problem. There is a 1/770 that it is a dead brick.
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#17 Post by shawross » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:07 pm

The Ebayer is also selling a T40 so you would think a $5 brick would be potentially worth the expense.
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#18 Post by oeuvre » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:25 am

Especially when it can power both machines
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#19 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:46 am

Well, he probably has no idea. Can you tell me if a Dell Latitude LM and a Latitude C640 use the same power brick? I dont know.
Probably should be Thinkpad16by10.

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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#20 Post by ctg_s » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:54 pm

oeuvre wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:12 pm
Thanks for the compliments.

The 600/E/X have rear docking ports too. I'd call it a stepping stone between the 770 and the T20 in terms of IBM design. I believe the 600 series was the last ThinkPad to have a slider for brightness.

Speaking of 770s, I took a risk on this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/152717333136
Ha! I was looking at that ebay listing on the 8th. I guess that explains why it disappeared (I messaged the seller to confirm the HDD caddy and memory cover were there, but got no response).
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#21 Post by oeuvre » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:16 pm

Good news/bad news/good news!

The 770 came today! Seems like a complete unit. Hard drive intact, tested it and it works. 6.4GB hard drive in that weird IBM Altoids enclosure, 96MB RAM, 9548-40U. Needs a proper cleanup which I will do tomorrow. Fired it up... no beep or video. Tore it down, reseat everything. Works fine now, just needed a new CMOS battery. Installing Windows 95 on it right now.

Attached is a very NSFW picture of it. https://i.imgur.com/fw5tkqV.jpg
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#22 Post by Annecy » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:33 pm

Reading this thread made/makes me wonder ...
if anyone (else) remembers the IBM XT/AT
(and whatever the most basic PC was called :?: :?: :?:
~ the PC ... maybe :lol:
)

I remember ...
in the mid/late 1980s ... when I was @University ...
(before my stint in the early/mid 1990s with a Dot.Com/StartUp ...
before my "millennial" stint with a European bank ... in Europe ~
after my PostGrad studies in Europe ...
)
"Dad" (who did a 20year "stint" with IBM)
explaining to me that ...
someone must have "installed" "DOS"
on the 5¼" Lotus 1-2-3 FDD I used to boot my PC-XT
"on the job" as a University Student-Professional employee

"Installing DOS" on a FDD actually meant
formatting the FDD as a "boot disc" ...
if I remember correctly :beer:


a Google Magnavox Metalis 286 search result: a(nother) TPF MM286 thread
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:50 pm
"This is a Magnavox Metalis 286. It is a crappy computer from 1990.
..., and it still is. It still is an interesting machine none the less ...
"

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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#23 Post by fultontech » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:49 pm

I started in the early 80's with the Tandy TRS-80 model III running TRS-DOS on floppy. No hard disk drives.
I remember making lots of bootable disks for other programs so I didn't have to swap diskettes so often just to reread command.com

I do recall a law office I went to once having an original IBM PC with floppies only running WordPerfect and TimeSlips.
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Re: Everyone needs a classic IBM ThinkPad running MS-DOS + Windows 3.11

#24 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:27 pm

Annecy wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:33 pm
Reading this thread made/makes me wonder ...
if anyone (else) remembers the IBM XT/AT
(and whatever the most basic PC was called :?: :?: :?:
~ the PC ... maybe :lol:
)

Yeah, it is called the PC, or the 5150. Either one. I got one of those, they are one hell of a machine, and a joy to use.
Annecy wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:33 pm
a Google Magnavox Metalis 286 search result: a(nother) TPF MM286 thread
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:50 pm
"This is a Magnavox Metalis 286. It is a crappy computer from 1990.
..., and it still is. It still is an interesting machine none the less ...
"

That machine is long dead and done for. I killed it. It had so many issues, trying to fix them made it worse. The display went crazy all the time, the batteries got stuck, the charging circuit hated those batteries, the motherboard was dying and I tried to fix the CMOS battery and the motherboard quit working all together. I stand by that quote, "It is a crappy machine from 1990, and it still is."
Probably should be Thinkpad16by10.

Looking For: 386 laptop, IBM or not.

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