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Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

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Thinkpad4by3
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Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#1 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:58 pm

When I plugged my 755C's drive into my IDE to USB converter from about 2001?? It recognized the drive as an unallocated 531GB space when it is a partitioned 340MB drive. What is going on and do I need a different adapter? How can I get the data on to a backup IMG file?

Once I can get the IMG files off the drives I will upload a factory preload for the 755C and 755CD/V
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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#2 Post by rheacox » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:59 pm

Two older drives that I have (540MB out of a 360something and an 810MB out of a 365XD) don't work well with a USB to IDE converter. Not sure what the issue is but my guess is it's some sort of problem with the adapter not being fully compatible with the ATA version of the drives.

I've run into issues trying to use early IDE drives on later desktop motherboards, might be a similar problem.

Not sure what Thinkpads/PCs you have but I was able to stick the old drives in the Ultrabay HDD adapter in my 770X and copy the data off of them using Windows XP.

Might also have better luck getting a 2.5 to 3.5 IDE converter and putting them in a desktop.
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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#3 Post by fultontech » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:20 pm

IF I recall correctly, the pin out on the older IDE drives was different by one or two pins from the EIDE standard.
I've had to use LapLink 5 and cables to copy 750 era and earlier DOS systems to a 770X system running WIN98 in real mode that had a USB port.
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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#4 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:36 pm

fultontech wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:20 pm
IF I recall correctly, the pin out on the older IDE drives was different by one or two pins from the EIDE standard.
I've had to use LapLink 5 and cables to copy 750 era and earlier DOS systems to a 770X system running WIN98 in real mode that had a USB port.
Could I throw it in my T42 with a drive in the Ultrabay to boot from?
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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#5 Post by rheacox » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:43 pm

If it will fit, maybe? Those old drives are pretty thick.
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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#6 Post by fultontech » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:53 pm

I'd need to look at the spec sheets, but I think it a system bus type issue. It's most likely is not compatible with anything newer than 75x family
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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#7 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:01 pm

fultontech wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:53 pm
I'd need to look at the spec sheets, but I think it a system bus type issue. It's most likely is not compatible with anything newer than 75x family
Then how should I make an IMG. I don't have LapLink nor an adapter.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#8 Post by rheacox » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:26 am

Haven't found anything about a difference in the pin out but take a look at this:

https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.co ... -drive/410

This might be the issue. There is a post that mentions that the incompatibility could be caused by the old drives using CHS instead of LBA and PIO instead of DMA.

Is the T42 your only other machine with an IDE controller?
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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#9 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:47 pm

rheacox wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:26 am
Haven't found anything about a difference in the pin out but take a look at this:

https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.co ... -drive/410

This might be the issue. There is a post that mentions that the incompatibility could be caused by the old drives using CHS instead of LBA and PIO instead of DMA.

Is the T42 your only other machine with an IDE controller?
I got an A31. I got some a PMMX 200 desktop but no drive adapter. I dont have a TP that is older than the A31 but newer than the 755CDV.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#10 Post by rheacox » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:10 pm

If the drive will fit in the A31 somehow, I'd give it a try and boot from a CD or ultrabay HDD. Otherwise, getting a 2.5 to 3.5 IDE adapter would be the cheapest option.
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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#11 Post by jaspen-meyer » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:51 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:58 pm
It recognized the drive as an unallocated 531GB space when it is a partitioned 340MB drive.
It is not clear which OS, or which program, you tried this on. Does the program/OS understand FAT16? You could try a live linux CD which includes Gparted: https://gparted.org/ to see what sort of size it reports.
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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#12 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:13 pm

jaspen-meyer wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:51 pm
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:58 pm
It recognized the drive as an unallocated 531GB space when it is a partitioned 340MB drive.
It is not clear which OS, or which program, you tried this on. Does the program/OS understand FAT16? You could try a live linux CD which includes Gparted: https://gparted.org/ to see what sort of size it reports.
Just plugged it into my Win7 main computer.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#13 Post by rheacox » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:47 am

FAT should be able to be read by just about any relatively new OS. Any luck using the A31?
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Re: Old drive not recognized with IDE converter.

#14 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:09 am

rheacox wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:47 am
FAT should be able to be read by just about any relatively new OS. Any luck using the A31?
I don't know what I could do to get the info off. Do Ubuntu Live CD's work on super old versions because undoubtedly Ubuntu 17 will be slow as the P4M that is driving it. I decided right now I don't have the time to deal with it and put it back in the machine. Cracking it open should make it easier when I do it in the future with the proper hardware.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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