Thinkpads Forum

Well, I've read some, and don't understand some, on the saga of 600X cpu's. I did buy a MMC-2, 700mhz on ebay, and installed it, a couple of different programs seem to indicate it's working.

What I need, is a simple (?) program to see if it REALLY is benchmarking at anywhere near it's performance.

I'm not a programmer, and don't understand some of the vague references to hex editing the bios, etc.

I don't have any speed step installed, I do have two hard drives--one with 98, and one with XP

I ran Sisoft Sandra, and it seems to show a rather poor showing.

Go here:

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

download CPUz and read the results. Another program is MobileMonitor, a terrific CPU and Temp monitoring program. I have mine loaded at Startup and hangs from the top of the screen showing freq and temps.

http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Oakland/8259/

Yeah, the page is in Japanese, but the download link at the top of the page is in English.

I use both these and they are the easiest and smallest to use.

TJ

440roadrunner wrote:Well, I've read some, and don't understand some, on the saga of 600X cpu's. I did buy a MMC-2, 700mhz on ebay, and installed it, a couple of different programs seem to indicate it's working.

What I need, is a simple (?) program to see if it REALLY is benchmarking at anywhere near it's performance.

I don't have any speed step installed. (snipped)

Download SpeedStep, install it and run it. You will get more accurate results with it. My 600X was a 500MHz model that I put an 800MHz chip in. Installed SpeedStep and it runs fine. It originally was not a SpeedStep model.

TJ

Another program is MobileMonitor

FWIW, incase you are looking for more info in the forum on its called MobileMeter.

yeah, meant that.. short-term memory... somethingorother....

No worries, I too have a problem with that um, uh, short um, oh yeah...short term memory.

skygodtj wrote:My 600X was a 500MHz model that I put an 800MHz chip in. Installed SpeedStep and it runs fine. It originally was not a SpeedStep model.

I understood that not all 600X machines that came with 500Mhz would do that, and in fact that most would not -- most 600X PIII 500MHz machines will not support SpeedStep.

Question for both TJ and for 440roadrunner: What is your full 600X model number (on the bottom of the machine)?

440roadrunner wrote:I'm not a programmer, and don't understand some of the vague references to hex editing the bios, etc.

The hex editing business and BIOS stuff will most likely not apply in your case. All 600X machines will happily accept an upgrade to a faster PIII. But not all of them will run a new SpeedStep CPU at its top speed. As I understand it, some 600X PIII 500MHz machines come with the necessary SpeedStep hardware on their motherboards and some do not. It has never been 100% clear to me which ones were which. If your model does not support SpeedStep, then trying to get a SpeedStep CPU to run at its top speed instead of 150MHz below its top speed will involve SERIOUS experimentation and modification, not just some hex editing, and I would not recommend it in your case.

Phil.

Both were 2645-4AU and 4BU... Non-speedstep 500MHz X's. But if you do a model-type search, they come back as these:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... y=2645-4au

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... y=2645-4bu

366 and 400MHz 600E's, so apparently, IBM's database is not accurate anymore, as these are -definately- X's.

TJ

Actually, the 4BU and 4AU are 600Es, I have one of each.

Did you buy these new or from someone else? They might have been upgraded to 500mhz prior to your purchase.

For the record, this 600X is a 2645-4EU. I'm currently running the IBM diagnostics (floppy) and see nothing about speedstep, if it is 'in' this motheboard.

Go here:

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

download CPUz and read the results

My take on Cpuid is that it IDENTIFIES the cpu, not necessarily tell you what it is actually running at, have I misread this?

The hex editing business and BIOS stuff will most likely not apply in your case. All 600X machines will happily accept an upgrade to a faster PIII. But not all of them will run a new SpeedStep CPU at its top speed. As I understand it, some 600X PIII 500MHz machines come with the necessary SpeedStep hardware on their motherboards and some do not. It has never been 100% clear to me which ones were which. If your model does not support SpeedStep, then trying to get a SpeedStep CPU to run at its top speed instead of 150MHz below its top speed will involve SERIOUS experimentation and modification, not just some hex editing, and I would not recommend it in your case.

Well, crap, that's all quite scary, hope I didn't waste my money


Thanks for your thoughts, so far, since I have the ultraslim drive bay for a second hard drive, I'll take this opportunity to reconfigure the whole darn deal.

I'm gonna take my 20gb drive, now with '98, and partition 10/10gb, and install X tra P utrid

I'll use the old 12 gb drive for backups (ghost), and the second 10 gb partion on the main for data storage.

After I get everything all reinstalled, I'll fiddle with these performance things.

Last, I ALSO have a 3 gb drive that I can use for experiments and "hacking"


I'm sure you'll hear more, later, long road ahead.

Well, this is pretty darn irritating. The thing seems to have become virtually unstable, yet when I downloaded and ran the floppy based diagnostics disk from IBM, that all passed.

Here's what goes:

Unit sometimes won't even boot cold from floppy or CD, hangs blinking curser.

FINALLY last night, I booted from a '98 CD, partititioned and formatted the 20g hdd into two 10gb partitions, copied the I386 folder, and started setup from there.

It will NOT run setup from an XP CD

Setup (winnt) for XP ran from the D partition until just after doing some "copying files", then shut down. Several reboot tries same thing.

This morning, I tried booting from a '98 cd, it just hangs. I WAS going to try a quick format and reinstall '98

I'm guessing maybe the RAM bus freq is the problem, because of what I've read, but yet it passes the diagnostic floppy, ?????

Unless anyone has a bright solution, or trials, I'm gonna tear it back down and reinstall the old CPU

For the record, I've spent years on the fringe of electronics, and AM familiar with ESD (static.)

That sounds pretty irritating. I don't know what those symptoms point to.

Are you running the latest BIOS? I think you need to be running the latest BIOS in order to run XP correctly. The latest 600X BIOS is ITET55WW with a system date of 11/30/99.

Also, one other thing to try before scrapping your new CPU is to "initialize" the BIOS in the Easy-Setup Menu. This may not make any difference, but it is worth a try. I think that this resets all the BIOS settings back to their defaults, and it may also help to make sure that any new or replaced hardware is properly recognized by your BIOS...or something like that(?).

To enter Easy-Setup, press and hold down the F1 key after you see the memory count completed when you do a cold boot. Then use the birdie pointer to click on Config -> Initialize -> OK. You might also turn off Quick Boot (if it's on), and disable the CPU serial number function (if it's on) -- these are available through Config -> QuickBoot and Config -> CPU. And you might as well also double-check your Start-Up boot sequence while you're in the BIOS changing things. The usual recommendation is to set it to boot from 1. Floppy - 2. CD - 3. Primary HD.

Phil.

Well, I haven't yet checked the bios but I did "initialize" it after to swap.

I did reinstall '98, and just now got done---I don't have the sound/video /etc drivers installed yet, but it looks like it might work.

I donoooo......

tfflivemb2 wrote:Actually, the 4BU and 4AU are 600Es, I have one of each.

Did you buy these new or from someone else? They might have been upgraded to 500mhz prior to your purchase.

They were eBay accquisitions from a Corporate Thinkpad leasing company. They are both -X's(mini-pci) tho the LABEL id's come back as -E's.

TJ

440roadrunner wrote:For the record, this 600X is a 2645-4EU. I'm currently running the IBM diagnostics (floppy) and see nothing about speedstep, if it is 'in' this motheboard.

Go here:

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

download CPUz and read the results

My take on Cpuid is that it IDENTIFIES the cpu, not necessarily tell you what it is actually running at, have I misread this?

Yes, you misread it... CPUid will tell you what the CORE speed currently is, not what the cpu is rated for, and the ID of the processor, MobileMeter is also used to check the speed. With SpeedStep installed and running, to get the cpu to run at full speed, you need(at least in my X's) a battery and charger. Right now, on my T23 on battery power, CPUz tells me I have a PIII Code name Tualatin, BGA/MicroPGA. blah blah blah.. Core speed 799.3MHz 6x Multiplier 133MHz FSB, 133MHz Bus Spd.. and lots more... but it tells me the -right now- speed, and if i plug in the charger, it'll tell me 1.2GHz. D/L it, run it. it'll tell you what you want to know. If you dont like CPUz, do MobileMeter.

TJ

skygodtj wrote:They were eBay accquisitions from a Corporate Thinkpad leasing company. They are both -X's(mini-pci) tho the LABEL id's come back as -E's.

Then somebody had to have modified them, or mislabeled them. The 4AU, 4BU, 8AU and 8BU are the four most common 600Es that I have worked on.

I guess my point is that it isn't a matter of IBM's database being inaccurate (although I have questioned some other things), but rather someone else modifying things.

Not to beat a dead horse, but what does your BIOS identify the system board as, by type number?

I'm in a hotel in Orlando and cant tell you what the BIOS says, but they -are- X's. When I run "Identify My Model" online query, it returns as 600X.
PC Wizard and several other Diagnostic tools return results that say they are 600X's, unless E's had 4MB VidRAM and mini-pci cards. Doesnt matter at all to me.

These were not SS'd X's. With the 800MHz cpu swap and SS installed, they run at appropriate speeds when fed with appro. power(batt & charger).

Sorry, not doubting you at all. I just find this intriguing, and curious to know more.

ok, home now.. checking each...

2545-4AU, 78-BBPB5, this one still comes back as an -E, but it is an -X.

2645-4EU, 78-HKWA3,
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... y=2645-4EU

TJ

Ok, that is part of the problem. One is a 4EU, not a 4BU. the 4EU is an -X, no doubt. Based on IBMs twbook:
ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitu ... twbook.pdf

I think that IBM is correct in the return info on the 4AU. The mini-PCI cards have been added to the 600Es with success in the past. Infact I am thinking about doing it with one of mine, since I am running short on wireless PCMCIA cards. The only thing that throws me off with the 4AU is the 4MB video, since the video is not upgradeable. Have you compared the drivers for the two, to make sure that they are the same?

One other thing is that someone might have upgraded the motherboard in the 4AU, with an -X model and then used a program to modify the serial number to match the case.

Again, I want to be clear that I am no way trying to argue this with you...just trying to make sense of it, because IBM is generally pretty consistant.

Not a problem, indeed, the -4AU was advertized as a smashed LCD 366mhz when I spotted it on eBay. Upon reciept of it, I checked the BIOS(the seller hadnt) and it said 500mhz! I called the seller(now a good friend and fellow pilot) and said because it was really a 500 and not 366 cpu, I wanted to pay him accordingly for it. He said no, it was ok.. anyway... so I guess someone had done a mobo swap, or swapped labels, and serial number doesnt pull up a warranty history. Didnt remember all this till you mentioned swapped mobo.

With all that.. that -AU must have been someone's -X project. Interesting tho, to pay to swap a mobo and not a screen

teege

I wish some of you would resist the urge to hijack a thread.

More on the cpu

I sucessfully got things to work, and a couple of different cpu ZZ/ID/etc programs show that it IS running somewhere near 700mhz.

I did install the speedstep applet.

Once in a while the "boot" hangs--flashing cursor. I'm looking for more info on a possible bios mod. Today, I started the thing after a long hiatus, and tried the "Fn battery" keys--that seemed to boost past the cursor. I'm not sure whether that did it, or whether it just finally decided to start.


I have YET to get X tra P utrid to install, for now I'm trying to relearn all the little tricks with this thing on '98. I may just settle on 2000


I DID update the bios, and can find no difference in any quriks.

Haven't tried to install XP since the bios update, though.

I'm not clear--is speedstep a function of the basic motherboard, or all in the MMC2 module?

When examining the bios settings, it does show "speedstep technology" in some of the bios info. This is on the "main" EZ setup screen.


Interesting thing, is that all "seems" to be actually running at or near 700mhz, but yet the apparrent heat output of the CPU cooler doesn't seem noticably more than the old 500 mhz cpu.

440roadrunner wrote:I sucessfully got things to work, and a couple of different cpu ZZ/ID/etc programs show that it IS running somewhere near 700mhz....Interesting thing, is that all "seems" to be actually running at or near 700mhz, but yet the apparrent heat output of the CPU cooler doesn't seem noticably more than the old 500 mhz cpu.

If CPU ZZ/ID/etc. show it running at 700MHz then I'm pretty sure it is and the low heat output may just be a bonus of the new CPU. In any case, that's great you got it working finally.

440roadrunner wrote:I'm not clear--is speedstep a function of the basic motherboard, or all in the MMC2 module?

As I understand it, SpeedStep is a function (or set of hardware instructions) that is built into the CPU itself, but in order for those functions to be used it is necessary for a motherboard to include certain hardware features as well. If a motherboard has these features it is considered "SpeedStep enabled". So for SpeedStep to work you need to have a SpeedStep CPU (possibly on an MMC-2 board) as well as a SpeedStep enabled motherboard.

For some more details about the MMC-2 CPU card and SpeedStep technology, check out the MMC-2 section of Mobile CPU Mania from Tom's Hardware.

Since you've got your 2645-4EU model 600X working at 700MHz, and Skygodtj also got his Frankenpads working with SpeedStep as well, then evidently my proposed list of which 600X models are compatible with SpeedStep is inaccurate.

440roadrunner wrote:I have YET to get X tra P utrid to install, for now I'm trying to relearn all the little tricks with this thing on '98. I may just settle on 2000

I'm still running Windoze 98SE on my 600X and may be able to offer suggestions on particular oddities. Many people believe that Windows 2000 is the "sweet spot" for these machines. I'm in the process of switching over to XP SP2 on another C drive in mine and it seems to me that a pared down XP SP2 install works great, especially with memory maxed out and with an upgraded CPU.

Phil.

Thanks for the comments. I may just have to settle for W2k, but I don't know how long Microshafted intends on supporting that system. I'm getting a little older, and frankly, I'll probably never buy another laptop, unless this one just quits.


I'd really like to get XP on there--I've got enough unused licenses, and I did have XP on the machine before the cpu upgrade. It ran ok then, and I was looking forward to the cpu upgrade. I'll do some more looking and see what I can find out. I can't list all the errors, but they were typical "blue screen" or hard restarts---the kind that are difficult to troubleshoot for me. Unless there are some well hidden error logs, I'm not sure what to do at that point. I may also try a "dos" started install from the hard drive and see if that goes better.

Some updates:

I've tried every way I can think of to install XP, incuding "DOS" launched, and an upgrade from an installed W2k

I finally just installed W2k, and it (or98!) runs pretty muchflawlessly. It is guilty of the "Fn battery" hang at boot Intel's CPU ID as well as CPUZ both show the new processor to be running right at 700mhz.

X tra P utrid is another matter. The whole problem SEEMS to be related to the new processor--I had XP on this machine for a short time with the old 500 mhz CPU.

I did get on ebay and ordered some more RAM. I bought a PCMCIA hard drive bay--this will allow use of a taller drive that I have, for backups. That drive won't fit the "Ultraslim bay"

I keep getting the (edit: Fn-F11/Power Adjustment) hang when I try running my laptop; I swapped the original 500MHz (-4EU) for a 650MHz one. Once I get into XP, things work ok with all CPU power management disabled.

Is there a BIOS fix for the 450/500 MHz 600X versions to "lock" the Speedstep into one speed at startup?

I was never able to get it to not hang at boot with the new CPU installed.. I had to keep hitting Fn/VolumeUp to get it to continue booting. Didnt think of disabling CPU PwrMgmt..

TJ