HD password.

Message

jparrot427 · #1 Post by **jparrot427** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:16 pm

Hello gang.

I just got a few 2nd hand HDs and they seem to be password protected, can anybody here help me find out how to remove it. Is it residing in the HD small logic board, is it in the MBR ? It has to be associated with the HD proper as if I move it form Thinkpad to Thinkpad, I get the same result.

If it is in an EEPROM on the HD logic board, where/how can it be deactivated ? Any IBM HMM only say that the HD will need replacement as IBM does not provide the service. These HDs will be used as USB external backup devices. I could format them in DOS and BAKTRAK, will this remove the PW ?

Thank you all for reading this cry for help. Somebody here must know.

Have a great weekend. ( Mine have 7 days now. ) JP.

Website · #2 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:34 pm

See the FAQ regarding the password issue.

One word of caution though: I searched for an answer for this before on a drive that I bought cheap, and found that there are many users that tried moving the hard drive from system to system trying to get rid of it, and the password was transferred to another hard drive that was not previously password protected. I'm not quite sure how this is possible unless there is some kind of residual information left in the BIOS after removing the drive.

egibbs · #3 Post by **egibbs** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:17 am

See section 11.9 of http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib. ... n_sp30.pdf

It's an Hitachi Travelstar manual, but the protocol described is industry standard and should be the same on any drive.

Depending on the security mode set you may be able to remove the password (though all data will be erased) if you have some way to send low level commands directly to the drive.

Ed Gibbs

#4 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:32 am

I have never tried in depth, but the only way I was able to remove a HD password (knowing the password in advance) was on the actual machine where I enabled the HD password in the first instance. I could not disable it on a different machine. I probably did something wrong. ... JD Hurst

jparrot427 · #5 Post by **jparrot427** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:27 am

Ed, good morning to you.

>>Depending on the security mode set you may be able to remove the password (though all data will be erased) if you have some way to send low level commands directly to the drive.

At the moment, I do not have the HD in hand, I am trying to get advance information on this. My intentions are to FDISK the drive and then do a BAKTRAK on it to write zero on all sectors.

But if the PW is saved in the logic board of the device, this would not do the trick. Reading into RnR for IBM Thinkpads, it seems (?) to me that the BIOS has something to do with it, there is a three PW option in the Security page. I will lool into this as I get the drive.

Thanks for your attention. JP.

jparrot427 · #6 Post by **jparrot427** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:32 am

A good morning to you JD. I quote you as :

>> I have never tried in depth, but the only way I was able to remove a HD password (knowing the password in advance) was on the actual machine where I enabled the HD password in the first instance. I could not disable it on a different machine

That is the problem, I am getting this drive on eBay and the seller said that he thinks that it is PW protected, he nor I have any inkling of what the PW could be. Therefor, I need a "mechanical" solution to this. If you say that it could only be done on the actual machine, it migh as I wrote before, have somehting to do in BIOS (??? )

Thanks for your time, appreciated. JP.

egibbs · #7 Post by **egibbs** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:29 am

jparrot427 wrote:But if the PW is saved in the logic board of the device, this would not do the trick. Reading into RnR for IBM Thinkpads, it seems (?) to me that the BIOS has something to do with it, there is a three PW option in the Security page. I will lool into this as I get the drive.

There are acutally several pieces to the puzzle.

The Password is set through BIOS - so your BIOS has to know about the drive password standard and support it. All modern BIOSes do. Note however that the password is not stored in the machine itself.

The drive controller also must support the standard, but if the drive has a password set the controller obviously does. The actual standard does not specify where the password is stored on the drive - it could be in EEPROM or on the platters. But as far as I know all manufacturers (and in particular, Hitachi/IBM), store it on the platters in an area accessible only to the disk controller.

So when you write a password to the drive you enter it in BIOS, it gets sent to the drive according via the protocol described in the standard, the controller recognizes that a password ias being set, and it writes it to the protected area on the disk.

When you power on a protected drive, the controller wakes up, checks the protected area and sees that a password is required, and tells the machine that it is locked. The machine then requests the password from the user, and passes the input to the drive controller. The drive controller checks the input against the stored password, and if they match unlocks the drive.

In order to clear a password protected drive, you need to send the "Master Password" and a clear command. This will erase the drive and clear the password at the same time. I am told that the Master Password is specific to the manufacturer, and if you ask around enough you might be able to find it for your drive.

I have also been told (though I've certainly never tried it) that if you have two IDENTICAL (in every respect, including controller firmware version) drives, one with and one without a password, you can do the following:

Spin up the unprotected drive.
Detach the controller from the platters with power on.
Attach the (still powered up) controller to the locked drive platters.

Assuming that nothing goes wrong (and there are so many things that can go wrong) this will supposedly allow access to the locked drive for as long as it stays powered up.

There are companies such as Nortel that can clear a drive password. They use special hardware that allow them to write drectly to the protected area. But they charge a pretty penny, and you have to ship the drive to them.

All of which begs the question - if you haven't yet bought this pile of aggravation, why would you? Find a drive that is guaranteed to be unlocked.

Ed Gibbs

jparrot427 · #8 Post by **jparrot427** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:39 am

Mr Ed, good morning.

What a well written message. You are showing your level of expertise, thank you. I have printed this reply to my request for help.

Your last line asks for some explanation on my part.

>>All of which begs the question - if you haven't yet bought this pile of aggravation, why would you? Find a drive that is guaranteed to be unlocked.

I do this mainly for fun but in the mean time, any of these procedures increases my knowledge of this facinating world. I wish that I were 15 again and able to plunge head-long into this realm of life. That 15 might be what I have left to live but I want to do it fully.

Now, getting more on topic, I set up friends and relatives with some of these USB external cases for this type of HDs for their security and back up. I am of good means and the $$ spent on these drives will not keep me out of bread nor butter, the learning process is to me more important and I thank you for being part of it. When I get these drives, I will let you know for sure, my trials and I hope success with them. This paragraph is in reply to your " pile of aggravation " . Hoooots !

Have a gorgeous day. JP.

JHEM · #9 Post by **JHEM** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:40 am

jparrot427 wrote:I just got a few 2nd hand HDs and they seem to be password protected, can anybody here help me find out how to remove it. Is it residing in the HD small logic board, is it in the MBR ? It has to be associated with the HD proper as if I move it form Thinkpad to Thinkpad, I get the same result.

Bon jour Jean!

Please don't waste your time with PW protected HDs, it simply isn't worth the time and effort.

The only experience you will gain from this "education" attempt is one of frustration.

1) The PW is not written to the HD's platters. It is written directly to the drive's controller HW and stored in the controller's EEPROM.

2) No amount of attempts to format or write zeroes to the drive will succeed in doing anything.

3) When a HD is PW protected you will be prompted for the PW on BOOT or upon insertion of the HD in a 2nd HD adapter. Failure to enter the correct PW results in a HD that is completely inaccessible, ergo you cannot FORMAT it or write to it.

4) The PW can be sniffed from the HD's EEPROM, but if you had that ability, you wouldn't be asking for directions here in the Forums!

Warm regards,

James

jparrot427 · #10 Post by **jparrot427** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:40 am

James, good morning.

Always the helpfull person. Thanks. I have also trown on paper your lines. This adds to my information package, thank you.

If you go up a little, two messages maybe on this topic, you will see where another fine person gave me an URL to the IBM technical precis on the HD that they sell / install. I have not fully perused it yet but the part on password is worth studying fully. I will.

So far, I am afraid that you win the crown, protected is protected. Let me "waste " my time, do not forget that my weekends have seven days. Tee ! hee !

Thanks again for a very learned opinion. Jean.

JHEM · #11 Post by **JHEM** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:00 pm

jparrot427 wrote:Let me "waste " my time, do not forget that my weekends have seven days. Tee ! hee !

Yes, but you should be spending at least five of them out flying in that beautiful FL sunshine!

We flew over you on our way to EYW in the Citation two weekends ago and I made sure to wave hello.

Regards,

James

jparrot427 · #12 Post by **jparrot427** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:06 pm

James, please do not rub it in.

We have, yesterday, sold the condo here and I intend to use some of the capital gain to get my medical back. Then I will stub my nose at you.

I got so many replies and advice to this question. I also thought that the EEPROM would be the place to look. Where did you get YOUR information ?

I do not have the HDs to play with yet. Jean.

egibbs · #13 Post by **egibbs** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:34 pm

Of course, aside from the frustration there is the ethical issue...

The locked HDDs might be removed from corporate machines, or they might be parted out from stolen laptops. I personally would not buy a locked HDD just because I MIGHT be helping a thief profit. Unless you personally know the source of the drives, there is no way to tell.

But YMMV. I certainly would not pay more than 10% of the value of an unlocked drive for a locked one, as there is a very slim likliehood of it ever being more than a paperweight.

Ed Gibbs

jparrot427 · #14 Post by **jparrot427** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:08 pm

Ed, hello again. You said :

>>The locked HDDs might be removed from corporate machines, or they might be parted out from stolen laptops. I personally would not buy a locked HDD just because I MIGHT be helping a thief profit. Unless you personally know the source of the drives, there is no way to tell.

The gentelman from whom I obtained these HDs is trustworthy. Your point is very well taken and I had thought of this too.

>>But YMMV. I certainly would not pay more than 10% of the value of an unlocked drive for a locked one, as there is a very slim likliehood of it ever being more than a paperweight.

I did not. Do realize that I seek this solution just from a fun point of view and personal knowledge enhancement. I do not stand to make 1 penny out of this, just trying to set up some back up USB external devices for friends or my kids as some safety measure.

Keep at me, I read it all. JP.[/b]

jparrot427 · #15 Post by **jparrot427** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:48 pm

Hello gang.

It seems that the password riddle can be solved. In regards to :

JD Hurst said :

>>I have never tried in depth, but the only way I was able to remove a HD password (knowing the password in advance) was on the actual >>machine where I enabled the HD password in the first instance. I could not disable it on a different machine. I probably did something wrong. ...

I have not done this yet but a good friend of mine has. He showed me how. It involves placing the PW protected drive on IDE 1 without the BIOS knowing about it. If you are interested, let me know. There had to be a way.

JP.

Rick Aguinaldo · #16 Post by **Rick Aguinaldo** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:29 pm

Hi, jparrot427!

These sites might satisfy some of your curiosity

. The first one I believe will give you some amusement as well as enlightenment. The thread has been running for over five years! The second one is of a bit more serious DIY stuff.

Cheers!

edit:
From FAQ #12 "...Cracking passwords is a highly charged subject that reasonable people disagree over..." Password recovery help link deleted due to morality issues that it may raise. Sorry JP, folks.

det922 · #17 Post by **det922** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:01 pm

welli got a broken 600x with no password and i put it in a 600e and it says i had one when i didnt, any ideas on what it would be

JHEM · #18 Post by **JHEM** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:29 pm

det922 wrote:welli got a broken 600x with no password and i put it in a 600e and it says i had one when i didnt, any ideas on what it would be

That statement doesn't make any sense.

Are you saying you put a 600X motherboard in a 600E and now it's asking for a password?

Please elaborate and explain more completely.

Regards,

James

det922 · #19 Post by **det922** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:16 pm

yes i have a broken 600x and the it has no passwords on it whatsoever, when i put the harddrive in a working 600e it asks for a harddrive password, and in another 600e that i just received it produces errors 8611 and 192, are those hard drive related as well

JHEM · #20 Post by **JHEM** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:04 am

Your broken 600X apparently has a Supervisor Password set. This means that there is also a PW set on the HD, but it will only show up when the HD is moved to another system.

Regards,

James

tselling · #21 Post by **tselling** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:10 pm

I thought I would give my experience with this with my T41p's. If a Master password is set on the HD, you cannot disable the User password... but you can change the User password. So the drive can still be used but not really able to sell it that way. Since I make the boot password the same as the user HD password... I only have to enter the one password.

And it appears that the Master HD password can only be removed on the same machine where is was enabled.

I have two T41p's each with a 7K60 drive in them. I recently wanted to sell one of them with an X31 I was selling. I must have tried every combination of supervisor/master passwords I have ever used on both HDs. But no luck.

When I read this thread I swapped the drives and then after a few tries with my usual passwords I had disabled the Master password which also disabled the User password.

I don't if its a bug or a feature but having to disable the master HD password on the same machine it was enabled was certainly annoying to me. I don't think I will enable the master HD password anymore. Just the supervisor, boot and user HD passwords.

jdhurst wrote:I have never tried in depth, but the only way I was able to remove a HD password (knowing the password in advance) was on the actual machine where I enabled the HD password in the first instance. I could not disable it on a different machine. I probably did something wrong. ... JD Hurst

egibbs · #22 Post by **egibbs** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:28 am

Interesting.

I'm not doubting your observation, but I've read the spec for the security features on IDE drives, and nowhere in the protocol does the serial number of the drive or the machine get passed. So I'm wondering if there is a new spec, or if IBM is doing something not defined in the spec?

Anypone know?

Ed Gibbs

jparrot427 · #23 Post by **jparrot427** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:08 pm

Hello gang.

In regards to this much maligned HD PW, I have done a funny test here. I have two Thinkpads with PW protected HD, I swapped the HDs. Let me call one A and tother B. Their set PW would be aaaaa and bbbbb. The A HD in B Thinkpad came to live with the aaaaa PW and vice-versa, the B HD in A Thinkpad popped up with the bbbbb PW.

This leads me to believe that the protection is on the HD, both into the next sector to the MBR and also into the logic board on the HD. Has nothing to do with the Thinkpad itself, nor the BIOS.

Now if you have a HD/TP with a Supervisor PW, rules are all different. In my TPs, there were no other PW but the HD ones.

FWIW and you all have a Merry Christmas. JP.

HD password.

HD password.

HD Password.

Password ?

Re: HD Password.

Locked HD (PW)

Re: HD password.

HD password.

Re: HD password.

Fly in the oinment ?

HD password.

Password gone on HD !

HD password re-re-revisited.

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