Second USB port on 600E motherboard?

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jamiphar · #1 Post by **jamiphar** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:29 am

I was wondering if any you know something about a second USB port on the 600E's motherboard. I noticed that in device manager it always shows a second port that isn't being used. If I can find the location of this, I'd like to solder a USB bluetooth chip to it to have bluetooth without using my one external port. Thanks!

cmarti · #2 Post by **cmarti** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:50 am

Never see it, and i really think is not possible but you might consider buying this.

That is the card i use in my 600X and it's excelent!

jamiphar · #3 Post by **jamiphar** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:27 am

I already have a bluetooth dongle that I would use if I couldn't do this, but thanks!
But I would think there has to be another port location on the motherboard, just because of what device manager shows. And I'd like to make good use of it, be it soldering a bluetooth chip to it or just adding another USB port.

#4 Post by **pkiff** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:11 pm

jamiphar wrote:I was wondering if any you know something about a second USB port on the 600E's motherboard. I noticed that in device manager it always shows a second port that isn't being used.

What OS are you running? Where do you see this extra USB port -- i.e. where is it listed under? I suspect you are seeing an incorrect entry in your Device Manager, in which case you can fix it by applying appropriate system update patches, but maybe I'm wrong.

Phil.

jamiphar · #5 Post by **jamiphar** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:18 pm

pkiff wrote:What OS are you running? Where do you see this extra USB port -- i.e. where is it listed under? I suspect you are seeing an incorrect entry in your Device Manager, in which case you can fix it by applying appropriate system update patches, but maybe I'm wrong.

Phil.

I'm running XP Pro.
In device manager, under Universal Serial Bus controllers, I click on USB Root Hub and then click on the power tab. I have my cell phone plugged in right now and it shows the SAMSUNG USB composite device using 100mA as the first device and it also says there's 1 port(s) available.

#6 Post by **pkiff** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:18 pm

jamiphar wrote:In device manager, under Universal Serial Bus controllers, I click on USB Root Hub and then click on the power tab. I have my cell phone plugged in right now and it shows the SAMSUNG USB composite device using 100mA as the first device and it also says there's 1 port(s) available.

[Added 2007-03-18: Evidently I was wrong about this USB port stuff. Someone has managed to get a second USB port working off of the 770X motherboard, so it may very well be possible to do so on the 600E as well.]I'm not so knowledgeable about USB ports, so you will want to check this with someone else, but I don't think that's a real "port" it's just a way of displaying your power information....or maybe it's a "virtual" port...as I say, I don't know, but I'm pretty confident that there is no extra hidden physical port anywhere on your machine, nor do I think you could solder some kind of wires to something on your USB card/motherboard to add one -- and even if you did, your BIOS would have to recognize it and initialize it for it to work, which seems highly unlikely to me.

On my 600X running XP SP2, when I attach my cellphone to the USB port, and go to the Device Manager -> Universal Serial Bus Controllers -> USB Root Hub -> Power Management, I don't see a list of devices or ports, all I see is two check boxes, "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" and another one. Are you running XP SP2? Maybe it's just a glitch in XP. [Added later: this isn't a glitch. The additional options only show up when you have devices attached that make those options applicable. A cellphone is not one such device.]

Phil.

jamiphar · #7 Post by **jamiphar** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:04 pm

pkiff wrote:I'm not so knowledgeable about USB ports, so you will want to check this with someone else, but I don't think that's a real "port" it's just a way of displaying your power information....or maybe it's a "virtual" port...as I say, I don't know, but I'm pretty confident that there is no extra hidden physical port anywhere on your machine, nor do I think you could solder some kind of wires to something on your USB card/motherboard to add one -- and even if you did, your BIOS would have to recognize it and initialize it for it to work, which seems highly unlikely to me.

On my 600X running XP SP2, when I attach my cellphone to the USB port, and go to the Device Manager -> Universal Serial Bus Controllers -> USB Root Hub -> Power Management, I don't see a list of devices or ports, all I see is two check boxes, "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" and another one. Are you running XP SP2? Maybe it's just a glitch in XP.

Phil.

I wasn't counting on the bios recognizing it, I figured it would just boot the same way it would if I had the device plugged into the USB port.

I also noticed that when I unplug the phone and the Samsung device disappears, it says that there are 2 ports available.

I believe it is SP2. I have Home Edition SP2 on my desktop and it shows the same stuff.

warwound · #8 Post by **warwound** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:29 pm

My Thinkpad 600E 2645-4BG shows a single USB Root Hub in Device Manager.

In the USB Root Hub's properties it shows 2 ports available when no usb devices are plugged in.

If i plug in my 4 port usb hub then the USB Root Hub properties changes to show 1 port available plus the Generic USB Hub(4 ports).
Generic USB Hub also appears in Device Manager and it's properties show the correct 4 ports available.

My guess is that the onboard USB hardware can support up to two USB ports.

Device Manager shows the Intel 82371AB/EB chipset is used.
I've had a brief Google for more info on this chipset hoping to find the maximum number of USB ports that it supports - but had no luck.

warwound.

#9 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:48 pm

warwound wrote:My guess is that the onboard USB hardware can support up to two USB ports.

Device Manager shows the Intel 82371AB/EB chipset is used.
I've had a brief Google for more info on this chipset hoping to find the maximum number of USB ports that it supports - but had no luck.

I would say you are correct. Here are the Intel datasheets:

440BX:
ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipset ... 063301.pdf

82371AB/EB:
ftp://download.intel.com/design/intarch ... 056201.pdf

Page 1-2 indicates that the PIIX4E (82371EB) supports two USB ports. Of course, that does not mean that there is a way to add the second port, merely that the chipset does support it.

(edit: Hmm.. I have a spare 600X motherboard which I believe uses the same chipset as the 600E. If I can get some time this weekend I'll look at it and see how feasible it would be to add a second USB port. My initial thought on how to get the signals outside the case would be to use the RJ11 jack (modem) and build a custom RJ11-to-USB adapter. I normally don't use the modem so I wouldn't miss that jack. Still wish there was a way to upgrade to built-in USB 2.0

).

(edit2: Added second datasheet for 82371AB/EB. It looks like the EB version has some enhancements/improvement made over the AB version. AB had USB 1.0 support, EB looks to have 1.1. There are other errata and specification updates on the Intel site.)

jamiphar · #10 Post by **jamiphar** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:16 am

rkawakami wrote:Hmm.. I have a spare 600X motherboard which I believe uses the same chipset as the 600E. If I can get some time this weekend I'll look at it and see how feasible it would be to add a second USB port. My initial thought on how to get the signals outside the case would be to use the RJ11 jack (modem) and build a custom RJ11-to-USB adapter. I normally don't use the modem so I wouldn't miss that jack. Still wish there was a way to upgrade to built-in USB 2.0 .

Great, that'd be a lot of help.
Doesn't the 600X motherboard have mini PCI? If so, could you possible use that to add USB 2.0?

I've had a pretty good look at the top of my motherboard, but I haven't gotten further than removing the heatsink and processor. If there's a good chance that there is another USB location, maybe I'll take the motherboard out of the laptop as to have a look at the bottom.

BTW, what's the difference between USB 1.0 and 1.1?

#11 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:21 am

jamiphar wrote:Doesn't the 600X motherboard have mini PCI? If so, could you possible use that to add USB 2.0?

Yes it does, but I've never heard of a MiniPCI-to-USB adapter, but that doesn't mean that it might not exist. The only problem with something like that is "how do you get the USB port outside the case?".

jamiphar wrote:<snip>... maybe I'll take the motherboard out of the laptop as to have a look at the bottom.

That's where all the "good stuff" is at! The top side of the motherboard (after you remove the CPU/heatsink) doesn't look too interesting. All of the major hardware is underneath.

(edit: "Difference between 1.0 and 1.1 USB": It looks to be a difference in maximum speed. 1.0 had a limit of 1.5Mbps, while 1.1 allowed up to 12Mbps. ref: this link)

jamiphar · #12 Post by **jamiphar** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:30 am

rkawakami wrote:
jamiphar wrote:Doesn't the 600X motherboard have mini PCI? If so, could you possible use that to add USB 2.0?
Yes it does, but I've never heard of a MiniPCI-to-USB adapter, but that doesn't mean that it might not exist. The only problem with something like that is "how do you get the USB port outside the case?".

jamiphar wrote:<snip>... maybe I'll take the motherboard out of the laptop as to have a look at the bottom.
That's where all the "good stuff" is at! The top side of the motherboard (after you remove the CPU/heatsink) doesn't look too interesting. All of the major hardware is underneath.

Well, if you have an extra ultraslimbay HD caddy, you can modify a USB hub to fit in there and have the ports sticking out the front.

Ah, so I've only seen the tip of the iceberg, then. In that case, I think I will explore some more. But I'll have to wait a little, this laptop hosts webcasts on Wednesday evenings and ideally it would be in one piece at the time.

Maybe I can try on Thursday night.

cmarti · #13 Post by **cmarti** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:36 am

jamiphar/Ray,

There is one mini pci card that has both functions wifi and bluetooth i got one but never got it working.

Here is the info.

It was recognized but i didn't find a way to turn on the bluetooth.

jamiphar · #14 Post by **jamiphar** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:48 am

I never got around to opening my thinkpad again, I had to attempt a surgery on our Canon Rebel.
Also, I got a more compact bluetooth adapter, so it wouldn't make too much of a difference to have it internal or external for me now. But I'm still curious as to whether or not it has a second USB port.

kjell · #15 Post by **kjell** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:49 pm

What about the docking-plug,there must be a way to find out where the usb is conected.The second usb you see might be the one for the dockingstation

#16 Post by **pkiff** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:13 am

Someone has managed to get a second USB port working off of the 770X motherboard, so I suspect it could very well be possible to do so on the 600E as well.

Phil.

jamiphar · #17 Post by **jamiphar** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:17 am

Wow, I wish I still had the 600E to look at. Pretty awesome!

Stargate199 · #18 Post by **Stargate199** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:16 am

kjell wrote:What about the docking-plug,there must be a way to find out where the usb is connected.The second usb you see might be the one for the docking station

I think that is what you are seeing. Since the port replicator has its own USB port, the motherboard must accommodate that. Since that chip set can only handle 2 usb ports on the motherboard, one port is on the system while the other is on the port replicator. This also explains why the usb port on the T2x (excluding T23 because of different chip set) is blocked when it is docked in the port replicator. They use the same chip set so can only have two usb ports on the motherboard. You have the regular USB port and then the second is the Ultraport.

jamiphar · #19 Post by **jamiphar** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:28 pm

Well, I got a hold of a 600X and finally got a chance to try this. I followed the directions that el-sahef wrote:

el-sahef wrote:I found a way to get the second usb port of the intel pci-set in the 770x to work.

The "mod" requires complete dissasembly and soldering:

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3963 ... modrp5.jpg

...a picture after the mod:

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6540 ... usbxp1.jpg

...and a screenshot (1x Nokia 6230i and 1x USB-Stick attached)

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/343/ ... hotgp8.jpg

I hope this helps anyone.

If the links are down, --> PM and I will upload it again.

Use at your own risk!!!!!!!!!

I desoldered the USB connector from a bluetooth adapter I have, and soldered the wires directly to the bluetooth chip instead. It works just fine and I have it fitting nicely right above the audio ports on my 600X.

So now I have bluetooth in my 600X, and I still have a USB port free.

#20 Post by **gator** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:10 pm

jamiphar wrote: So now I have bluetooth in my 600X, and I still have a USB port free.

James, awesome! Did you take any pics?

#21 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:16 pm

Now that's what I would call "sticking to the project"!

Interesting upgrade... I had forgotten all about this discussion. Must file this one away since it may come in handy some day. Thanks!

jamiphar · #22 Post by **jamiphar** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:49 pm

gator wrote:James, awesome! Did you take any pics?

No, I didn't think to grab the camera. I didn't have too much time to work on this, so I was just trying to get it done.

But I'll try to take some photos next time I have it apart.

rkawakami wrote:Now that's what I would call "sticking to the project"!

Interesting upgrade... I had forgotten all about this discussion. Must file this one away since it may come in handy some day. Thanks!

Yeah, I think it has some possibilities. One could use a WiFi card, an old thumbdrive (bootable?), even integrate an SD or CF card reader into the side. It'd be a little slow with USB 1.1, though. Or you can simply add a second USB port.

If you don't need the extra port, you could take the 5V line and attach it to the existing port to have double the current. This would probably help with hard drives or devices that charge via USB.

Now all I need to do is figure out how to get good range from my MiniPCI WiFi card. This may end up being the ultimate 600X.

#23 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:13 pm

Not sure, but if you haven't seen my page at:

http://www.rkawakami.net/ibm_600x/mini_pci_wireless/

it the best way that I've got reception on my wireless 600X.

jamiphar · #24 Post by **jamiphar** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:17 pm

rkawakami wrote:Not sure, but if you haven't seen my page at:

http://www.rkawakami.net/ibm_600x/mini_pci_wireless/

it the best way that I've got reception on my wireless 600X.

I have seen that, and I still think it's pretty impressive.

But, I'm trying to get good range without changing anything externally. And I think I may have found a way. But I need to find the drivers for the card I have before I can know for sure. I had a WiFi combo card in there, but it's not compatible with the WPA encryption we have. Hopefully this unmarked shorter card I have will work with it.

jamiphar · #25 Post by **jamiphar** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:08 pm

Ok, I took the shielding off the card and found a few numbers. With Google's assistance, I found the driver I needed. It turns out to be an Atheros-based 802.11b card.

With the 600X, I get range that's equal to - or better than - my WPC54G PCMCIA card. I have one of the antennas bent over the top left of the LCD, just behind the plastic bezel. And the other one is under the palmrest the the right of the left speaker. The palmrest has a sprayed-on metal coating that was blocking my signal, but I sanded some off to make a "window" through it. See this photo.

Also, I took some photos of the bluetooth mod:

Underside of the motherboard showing the wiring path.
Close-up of the docking station pins.
Showing the wires hot-glued out of the way of the mounting holes.
Comparing two of the same BT adapter. Note: since I took this photo, I've placed the resistor in-line with the wires instead of on the actual chip. This makes the chip a lot thinner.
Final spot for the resistors and adapters.

jamerslong · #26 Post by **jamerslong** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:03 pm

i looked into my T20 and low and behold i have an extra USB port available on my computer as well

i will be experimenting if i ever get up the nerve.

jamiphar · #27 Post by **jamiphar** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:33 pm

jamerslong wrote:i looked into my T20 and low and behold i have an extra USB port available on my computer as well

i will be experimenting if i ever get up the nerve.

Now what you're probably seeing is the UltraPort, which is a USB port with a unique connection. Here's some more info on it: http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/UltraPort

jamerslong · #28 Post by **jamerslong** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:46 pm

I totally forgot about that port! i knew it was a USB port, i will just hack that one instead. i will be installing a Wifi antenna any how so might as well work that while im back there. i will use the same antenna your using.

thanks for the heads up!

jamiphar · #29 Post by **jamiphar** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:58 pm

jamerslong wrote:I totally forgot about that port! i knew it was a USB port, i will just hack that one instead. i will be installing a Wifi antenna any how so might as well work that while im back there. i will use the same antenna your using.

thanks for the heads up!

Sure thing. Let us know how it comes out!

joester · #30 Post by **joester** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:29 pm

I'm interested in how this ended up...

I'm considering making an ultraport to USB and external antenna type adapter. I figure adding the USB should be easy enough, and using the unused/unidentified connections on the ultraport for the antenna. If I do this right, I figure I can make a removable adapter, have an "internal" antenna for close range applications, and the option of an external antenna for increased range.

Even without the antenna, an ultraport to USB adapter would be handy.

Joe

Second USB port on 600E motherboard?

Second USB port on 600E motherboard?

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