Thinkpads Forum

When I try to boot while my 600x is docked to my SelectaDock III, it hangs; I believe it's because of the floppy drive. The green information area on the bottom left shows the floppy light being on and it stays on for a long time. The computer will not POST but will show the amount of RAM and say ok.

I've tried taking all but the necessary components out of the dock--no PCI cards, drives, etc. For the floppy I've even tried unplugging all of the connector cables and power cables attached to it, and taking out the drive itself. I still get this problem at startup. I get the feeling the dock is hardwired to try to check the floppy drive.

I'm never going to use the floppy drive, so I'm up for disabling it in any way possible to get around this and boot.

spikex34 wrote:When I try to boot while my 600x is docked to my SelectaDock III, it hangs; I believe it's because of the floppy drive. The green information area on the bottom left shows the floppy light being on and it stays on for a long time. The computer will not POST but will show the amount of RAM and say ok.

This could also indicate a more general failure with respect to the laptop + docking station configuration, or it could also indicate an operating system problem. If you don't have a floppy drive attached, then my suspicion is that your failure is not actually related to the floppy drive, despite the fact that the green-lit information screen seems to stall while the floppy disk icon is showing. Nevertheless, I'll try to engage with the issue you suspect below.

spikex34 wrote:I've tried taking all but the necessary components out of the dock--no PCI cards, drives, etc. For the floppy I've even tried unplugging all of the connector cables and power cables attached to it, and taking out the drive itself.

The floppy drive you are talking about, is it in the left-side of the SelectaDock III? And it is a fully enclosed floppy drive (actually a 770 series UltraBay II floppy drive)? And you can remove it simply by using the eject switch on the front of the SelectaDock III?

If yes, then what are the "connector cables" you are talking about? I'm not sure what plugging/unplugging you've done here.

spikex34 wrote:I get the feeling the dock is hardwired to try to check the floppy drive.

Yes and no. Yes, I think the SelectaDock is hardwired to check the status of the UltraBay II slot during boot. But you do not need to have a floppy drive installed to boot up, you can leave nothing in the UltraBay II slot if you wish -- and the floppy disk icon will probably still appear during the boot sequence.

spikex34 wrote:I'm never going to use the floppy drive, so I'm up for disabling it in any way possible to get around this and boot.

Then use the eject button, pull out the floppy drive, and leave the slot empty.

Other possible problems to check on:

1. Can you confirm that the SelectaDock III is in working condition? (did you buy it new or used, and what guarantee did you get?)

2. What is the Boot Order set in your BIOS? I would remove everything from the boot order except your hard drive and then test, and then remove everything except your CD drive and then test again (with a bootable CD).

3. Do you have the ThinkPad Configuration utility installed? And have you tried adjusting the settings for the Docking Station there?

4. Do you have a spare hard drive that you can install a clean OS onto and try to boot up after installing a clean OS?

5. In your sig, you mention an "ipw2915". I would start by tyring to boot your 600X with all of its original parts installed, and that means putting the original PCI card back in, not leaving the PCI slot empty. It may be that during the hardware detection stage, the laptop is trying to enumerate something that you've removed.

Phil.

Yeah, sorry, I guess I could have been more clear. See below.

pkiff wrote:This could also indicate a more general failure with respect to the laptop + docking station configuration, or it could also indicate an operating system problem. If you don't have a floppy drive attached, then my suspicion is that your failure is not actually related to the floppy drive, despite the fact that the green-lit information screen seems to stall while the floppy disk icon is showing. Nevertheless, I'll try to engage with the issue you suspect below.

I agree with you here; if the floppy drive and the bus cables (I don't know their name, sorry - the ones that attach the drive to the system board) are completely disconnected and it's still stalling on the floppy drive icon, then it must be something else. I'm going to try the below but again I agree the dock could just be failing.

I think most of what you said here is covered by my answers below--

1. Can you confirm that the SelectaDock III is in working condition? (did you buy it new or used, and what guarantee did you get?)

Got it used on eBay, see here. Earlier today, and for the past two weeks I've had it I've been able to boot. While there isn't a return policy listed, for now I feel this is something I can probably (hopefully) fix.

2. What is the Boot Order set in your BIOS? I would remove everything from the boot order except your hard drive and then test, and then remove everything except your CD drive and then test again (with a bootable CD).

Using the 4 hard drives (ie no floppy, cd, etc) for bootup currently. I will try with a bootable CD soon, great idea!

3. Do you have the ThinkPad Configuration utility installed? And have you tried adjusting the settings for the Docking Station there?

No -- I will look into this; if you have any more advice relating to this I'd appreciate it.

4. Do you have a spare hard drive that you can install a clean OS onto and try to boot up after installing a clean OS?

I can, yes. This will probably be a last resort...

5. In your sig, you mention an "ipw2915". I would start by tyring to boot your 600X with all of its original parts installed, and that means putting the original PCI card back in, not leaving the PCI slot empty. It may be that during the hardware detection stage, the laptop is trying to enumerate something that you've removed.

Will do as well, good suggestion.

Thank you very much! I'll be reporting back soon.

spikex34 wrote:if the floppy drive and the bus cables (I don't know their name, sorry - the ones that attach the drive to the system board) are completely disconnected and it's still stalling on the floppy drive icon, then it must be something else.

Just so you know, then, the cables you are talking about are IDE cables, and I don't think you should disconnect them. It is possible that they need to be connected properly in order for the SelectaDock to boot up, even when nothing is inserted in the UltraBay slot. The SelectaDock needs to check in on that "IDE" motherboard during boot up in order to see what you've got in there: you could have a floppy drive, a CD drive, a zip drive, a hard drive, or TWO hard drives, depending on your hardware config and it will be unable to process the boot order until it figures out what hardware you've got in there.

Phil.

spikex34 wrote:

pkiff wrote:2. What is the Boot Order set in your BIOS? I would remove everything from the boot order except your hard drive and then test, and then remove everything except your CD drive and then test again (with a bootable CD).

Using the 4 hard drives (ie no floppy, cd, etc) for bootup currently.

I don't understand your explanation. What do you mean "4 hard drives"? What exactly is listed in your boot order, reading from left to right?

And hey, I forgot to ask, can you get into your BIOS when you are docked? (by holding the F1 key during boot up)? Or does the system not even allow you to get that far?

Phil.

Regarding immediately above-
By 4 hard drives, I mean on EZSetup you can choose CD, Floppy, or one of four hard disk icons numbered 1-4. I put all 4 on the startup to be absolutely sure it wasn't booting CD/Network/etc. I guess you would see the 4 cylinder icons, in numerical order, on my startup then. Hope that makes sense...

I'm not near the setup at the moment (back at school, see below), but I don't think I could get into the BIOS from recollection. It would display the amount of RAM (something like 58xxxx OK) and then I'd get the flashing underscore _ indefinitely.

I'm pretty sure the problem is related to the motherboard on my laptop. I can't use a working screen on the laptop because I damaged some mobo component for the screen output; have tried two screens I know work and this seems to be the case. I can completely boot up (and access EZSetup) using an external monitor connected directly to the Thinkpad or the SelectaBase (just not the SelectaDock) so I know the damage is limited to that section of the mobo. However, that could very well be affecting the dock's bootup (perhaps something on the laptop's output to the dock is a little fishy now; monitor related parts aren't too far from the dock connector spacially. Perhaps I mangled that whole area... anyway, I'm looking for a cheap working 600x mobo to put in my 600x before I troubleshoot the dock issue much more.

Also, I'm back at school now so as mentioned I don't have immediate access to the system. I didn't really get around to trying everything I wanted to to troubleshoot before leaving either, unfortunately. This thread will probably be buried for a while before I'm back and able to work on it more.

pkiff, if you have other troubleshooting questions I can attempt to answer them based on my experience with my busted set up - but otherwise, thanks so much! I appreciate your advice.

Edit -- The one time I got everything to boot with my Voodoo 5 card in (the very first time I booted with it in), I got it working by unplugging the IDE and power cables to the floppy bay. I was getting frustrated with it hanging on the floppy and had started experimenting with unplugging that component.

Since you have a 600X, download PC Doctor for that machine from Lenovo. It will test the dock devices too.

whizkid's suggestion to use PC Doctor is a good one, and when you sit back down to work on the system, that should probably be the first step: you need to get your core hardware back into its original condition with all plugs and pieces working the way they originally did before doing additional troubleshooting, and that will also help determine if your motherboard is faulty.

spikex34 wrote:By 4 hard drives, I mean on EZSetup you can choose CD, Floppy, or one of four hard disk icons numbered 1-4. I put all 4 on the startup to be absolutely sure it wasn't booting CD/Network/etc. I guess you would see the 4 cylinder icons, in numerical order, on my startup then. Hope that makes sense...

Yes, I understand. This startup sequence could very well produce the symptoms you described in your first post and prevent you from booting up. I'm not sure you can have a boot device listed in your boot order if that boot device does not exist in your system. If this is stalling your system during boot-up and preventing you from continuing to boot, then the floppy disk icon might flash at the moment the boot sequence freezes, even if the floppy disk is not part of your boot sequence. The floppy icon I think flashes on every boot, regardless, and it may just coincide with the moment in the boot sequence where your system cannot find one of the boot devices you listed.

pkiff wrote:2. What is the Boot Order set in your BIOS? I would remove everything from the boot order except your hard drive and then test, and then remove everything except your CD drive and then test again (with a bootable CD).

In order to determine if the problem is your boot sequence, you should follow this instruction after using PC Doctor. You don't need 4 devices listed in your boot sequence, you can put just one in there and that helps narrow things down.

spikex34 wrote:I'm not near the setup at the moment (back at school, see below), but I don't think I could get into the BIOS from recollection. It would display the amount of RAM (something like 58xxxx OK) and then I'd get the flashing underscore _ indefinitely.

This issue will need to be addressed before you can proceed very far with other troubleshooting. If you cannot access your Easy-Setup BIOS, then you cannot change your boot sequence. When you sit back down to work on this, let us know if you have troubles accessing Easy-Setup and that'll be the first thing to work on (after PC Doctor).

spikex34 wrote:The one time I got everything to boot with my Voodoo 5 card in (the very first time I booted with it in), I got it working by unplugging the IDE and power cables to the floppy bay.

Interesting. I'm not sure what to make of this, and can't quite figure out how it fits in with the troubles you're having.

I still have lingering doubts about which cables you were plugging and unplugging, since the SelectaDock III has TWO bays. There is an UltraBay II slot on the left, and there is a standard IDE/SCSI device bay on the right. Both of them have IDE cables associated with them, but the UltraBay II slot on the left has a small subboard where the IDE cables are attached to so that whatever is inserted in the UltraBay II slot does not have to have cables attached directly to it. By contrast, a device in the device bay on the right requires an IDE/SCSI cable to be connected directly to the rear of the device along with a power cable in order for the device to work and be recognized by the system. When you get back to work on the system, you can double-check these things.

Phil.

Will run PCDoctor when I returen (unfortunately not until March).

Yes, I understand. This startup sequence could very well produce the symptoms you described in your first post and prevent you from booting up. I'm not sure you can have a boot device listed in your boot order if that boot device does not exist in your system. If this is stalling your system during boot-up and preventing you from continuing to boot, then the floppy disk icon might flash at the moment the boot sequence freezes, even if the floppy disk is not part of your boot sequence. The floppy icon I think flashes on every boot, regardless, and it may just coincide with the moment in the boot sequence where your system cannot find one of the boot devices you listed.

I'm going to hope the problem is as simple as this! Will try to only use a single item in boot order, one of the harddrives.

This issue will need to be addressed before you can proceed very far with other troubleshooting. If you cannot access your Easy-Setup BIOS, then you cannot change your boot sequence. When you sit back down to work on this, let us know if you have troubles accessing Easy-Setup and that'll be the first thing to work on (after PC Doctor).

Perhaps that wasn't clear on my part. It is only when the laptop is attached to the dock that this happens. When the laptop is undocked, or only on the Selectabase, I can boot normally (including visiting EZSetup) using an external monitor.

IDE cables and such

I basically unplugged everything on the left hand side at the top level: a small power cord on the far left, and I think two IDE (?) cables, one black and one greyish/white. This is from memory so I don't quite remember. I will post a picture of what I did when I'm back.


I should note for the one time I got it working, I started playing half life and the computer suddenly crashed hard--basically what would happen if you pulled the power cable out of a desktop.

Thanks again guys.

spikex34 wrote:

IDE cables and such

I basically unplugged everything on the left hand side at the top level: a small power cord on the far left, and I think two IDE (?) cables, one black and one greyish/white. This is from memory so I don't quite remember. I will post a picture of what I did when I'm back.

OK. No need for photos. Your description earlier was correct, I was just double-checking. My SelectaDock III units also have one black + one grey IDE cables attached to the mini-board there along with a power cable. I would plug those all back in again when you test with PC Doctor -- it could be that, as you suspected originally, you've got a problem with that mini-board where your floppy drive attaches (when present).

Phil.