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760XL HDD and OS Questions...

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wizzard0003
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Aberdeen, WA USA

760XL HDD and OS Questions...

#1 Post by wizzard0003 » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:01 pm

Hello,

I'm new to Thinkpads (and Laptops) and have a few questions...

I've recently obtained a 760XL with Windows 98, 166MHz, 2.1 HDD,
80MB RAM...

1) The machine uses an ATA-3 HDD... Can I use a newer, larger
HDD...? It looks to me that the stock "Caddy" accepts a standard
IDE interface and adapts internally to the machines interface (I've
had it apart)... Would there be any problems with the UDMA drive
seeing as the stock one was ATA-3...? Or would the two different
interfaces be incompatable...?

2) If I can use a new drive, is the machine capable of running XP
(retail or generic OEM of course)...? If not, I would imagine a retail
or generic OEM of 98SE would then be my next best choice...?

3) If 98SE, would I have to stay under 32GB or would I just need to
format the drive with multiple partitions of under 32GB...? (I may be
wrong headed here, just for some reason remember something about
98SE not being able to use more than 32GB drives/partitions... )

4) Depending on what above may/may not be possible, is there
anything else that I'd need to do, ie; flash a modded or new BIOS
or make some BIOS changes...?

I'm very sorry if I'm completely stupid about Thinkpads/Laptops...

It's my first one... All of my other machines are self built desktops
and I've never used anything but XP generic OEM or retail OS's
and never had to deal with proprietary hardware/software or older
OS's...

I'd just like to increase the drive size if possible to something in
the neighborhood of 20-40 GB's and increase the speed to a newer
5400-7200 RPM drive...

What are my options or what suggestions do you have...?

Hope I'm not asking this in the wrong area, just seemed kind
of an OS type question with hardware compatability as part of
the equation... Let me know where and I'll post it in the right
place (or just let me know where to look for the answers... I
don't mind digging for them if I know where to look... )

Thanks in advance to anyone who tries to help...

wizzard0003

\\//_
Laptop: 760XL, 9547-U9C, Windows 98SE, 166MHz
2.1GB, 104MB RAM, 8xCDROM, Ext. Floppy
BIOS Version - Date: HZET73WW - 12/09/99

Desktop: ASRock 939DUAL, AMD 6400+
2x1GB DDR2-800, Radeon X1950PRO AGP...

My Heatware

SMA
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

#2 Post by SMA » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:33 pm

Welcome to the forum.

The minimum system requirement to install Windows XP is a Pentium 233 MHz CPU and 128 MB memory.
So forget about installing XP on a 760XL.

I believe I have my 760XL maxed out with its 104 MB memory and 4 GB hard drive.

Win98SE seems just fine for a 760XL.

Also, should you come around to playing with PCMCIA cards, than always use the upper slot.
The lower slot is getting too hot due it its location being to close to the motherboard.
And please, do not ask me how I found that out and what kind of card I lost on that account.

wizzard0003
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Aberdeen, WA USA

#3 Post by wizzard0003 » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:17 pm

Thanks for the welcome SMA, and thanks for the answer... :)

So it seems I'm stuck with an original IBM type HDD...?

From what I'm getting so far in my search, is that I'd
be better off with an original repair disc as that would
give me the system tools I need for system managment
of a laptop... Is this correct...?

This sytem seems to have originally had 95 installed on
it per the 95 logo on the bottom... Somehow it was up-
graded to 98... Would I be able to buy an upgrade (or
repair disc set) for 98SE do you suppose from IBM/Lenovo
or would I have to find it elseware...? If elseware, would I
need the original disc set, as I don't have any... (?)

This is so confusing to me as I'm used to just buying an OS
for my desktop builds and not having to worry about any
firmware stopping me from installing... I can't seem to wrap
my head around what exactly it is I need to do to get an
OS "On Disk" that I can instal legaly without problems...

If I just got a generic OEM or retail 98SE, can I instal all
of the laptop utilities separately and would that work OK...?

Sorry if I'm completely lost here... I've never worked with
"Proprietary" before or anything previous to XP... :?

I just want to get a clean, "Legal", 98SE on this machine
and hopfully get it working a little smoother... It's a nice
little unit but so mucked up OS wise it has trouble even
loading this forum... :shock:

Thanks to anyone that can explain it so a laptop noob like
me can get this machine running like it should/could... :)

wizzard0003

\\//_
Laptop: 760XL, 9547-U9C, Windows 98SE, 166MHz
2.1GB, 104MB RAM, 8xCDROM, Ext. Floppy
BIOS Version - Date: HZET73WW - 12/09/99

Desktop: ASRock 939DUAL, AMD 6400+
2x1GB DDR2-800, Radeon X1950PRO AGP...

My Heatware

whizkid
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Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: Saint Paul, MN
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#4 Post by whizkid » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:05 am

I think it very unlikely that IBM or Lenovo would still have Win98SE upgrade media around. But, you should be able to find it pretty cheaply. Any version will do: upgrade, OEM, full retail. (Of course, if you get the upgrade version, you'll also have to find a Win95 set too.)

See this: Windows 98 Second Edition setup guide - ThinkPad General:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... IGR-48VPPW

and this: Windows 98 installation supplement files - ThinkPad 600, 760, 765, 770
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... SHY-3VQQS6

and while you're at it: IBM Personal computing support - ThinkPad 760XL support
Link
(not easy to find any more!) Click on the left menu for downloads, manuals like the Hardware Maintenance Manual and lots of other good stuff.

You can certainly use any drive up to 8.1GB, and perhaps larger. (I've never had one, but hopefully someone will chime in. My 750P which is much older can use larger drives, but the boot partition has to be on the first 8GB.)

If you have XP laying around, you can try to install it, but you probably won't like it much. Win98SE is indeed a fine choice. Depending on what you want to do, Linux may also be a good choice because it has some very nice features, is much more secure than 98SE and can run on that hardware. (But if you try to make it too much like XP it will also have a hard time running well.)

Win98SE can use large partitions, but if the BIOS has an 8GB limit, you have to either make the C: drive 8GB or smaller, or get some kind of BIOS patch, which many drive makers made.

MOD EDIT: Link modified for better scrolling.
Machine-Project: 750P, 600X, T42, T60, T400, X1 Carbon Touch

wizzard0003
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Aberdeen, WA USA

Excellent...!

#5 Post by wizzard0003 » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:56 am

Thanks whizkid... 8)

Those links are the type of stuff I needed to find...

I really appreciate your taking the time to point me
in the right general direction...

I had a feeling that a "Boot Partition" might work... I'll
give that a try...

I've decided to buy a used HDD to start with just for
testing/learning... I'll keep my original as backup just
in case so I can always drop it back in if I need to...

When/If/Once I get things working, then I may spring
for a new drive...

I'll also grab an OEM/Retail 98SE... I see them online
for $40 to $50-ish... Not too bad...

It may take some time, but I'll be sure to post back
with my progress (good and bad) along the way just
in case it helps someone else as well...

Again, many thanks... :D

wizzard0003

\\//_
Laptop: 760XL, 9547-U9C, Windows 98SE, 166MHz
2.1GB, 104MB RAM, 8xCDROM, Ext. Floppy
BIOS Version - Date: HZET73WW - 12/09/99

Desktop: ASRock 939DUAL, AMD 6400+
2x1GB DDR2-800, Radeon X1950PRO AGP...

My Heatware

vicm
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:33 pm
Location: new york city

#6 Post by vicm » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:55 pm

I have Windows 2000 dual boot with Win98 on this 760xl with 104 MB RAM and a IBM 14 GB Hard drive. Win 2000 booting is a bit slow but after that fine. There is no support for cardbus on this machine under Win 2000. Used Hitachi/IBM bios overlay on the hard drive. I've had a 40 GB in as well but that has moved on to a faster Thinkpad. I rarely boot to Win 98 anymore.

wizzard0003
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Aberdeen, WA USA

#7 Post by wizzard0003 » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:10 am

Used Hitachi/IBM bios overlay on the hard drive.
Thanks for that... 8)

I Googled it and it may be something I need...

Thanks for mentioning about 2000 and the cardbus also... I have
plans on using wireless internet and USB with mine so it looks
like 98SE is definately what I'm looking to use...

wizzard0003

\\//_
Last edited by wizzard0003 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Laptop: 760XL, 9547-U9C, Windows 98SE, 166MHz
2.1GB, 104MB RAM, 8xCDROM, Ext. Floppy
BIOS Version - Date: HZET73WW - 12/09/99

Desktop: ASRock 939DUAL, AMD 6400+
2x1GB DDR2-800, Radeon X1950PRO AGP...

My Heatware

phool@round
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:36 pm
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

#8 Post by phool@round » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:31 pm

Please say thank you to Bill Morrow for these links; http://thinkpads.com/6gig-limit.htm

....and for the HDD overlay for larger drives; ftp://www.thinkpads.com/pub/pub/DMDISK.EXE
R50/52, X20/21/23/24, T23/42/43, 240X, 570, 570E, 770X, 4 760's. + MAC's & SUN's

wizzard0003
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Aberdeen, WA USA

#9 Post by wizzard0003 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:04 pm

phool@round wrote:Please say thank you to Bill Morrow for these links; http://thinkpads.com/6gig-limit.htm

....and for the HDD overlay for larger drives; ftp://www.thinkpads.com/pub/pub/DMDISK.EXE
Thanks phool@round (and Bill too) but the download link for
Diskmannager 2000 is broken and the HDD overlay link is broken
as well... :(

But I have found Ontrack Disk Manager® 2000 elsware... :D

http://members.shaw.ca/rinocanada/hdutils.htm
(Scroll down the page a bit...)
QUANTUM HARD DRIVES

Ontrack Disk Manager® 2000 : Disk Manager 2000 is a Windows
based installation program that overcomes the limitations of system
BIOS and operating systems and makes adding a new hard drive to
your system easy. Disk Manager 2000 will analyze your computer
system and create a Custom Installation Manual that provides step-
by-step instructions to guide you through the disk drive installation.

Instructions on how to create the Disk Manager: Download Disk
Manager 2000 to either your Windows Desktop or to a temporary
folder, insert a blank formatted 1.44MB floppy into your A: drive,
and then click on the downloaded file to create a Disk Manager
boot diskette. Then reboot-your computer and follow the instructions
from Disk Manager.
I think this is what I need... :?:

You still get an "A" for effort though... :lol:

wizzard0003

\\//_

PS:
I've just got to say this is a GREAT forum and the people here are
the best...! Everyone has given me lots of good info and ideas and
I'm sure I'll get this going just the way I would like because of all
of the help you've all given... :)

Right now I need to find some used (= Cheap) Caddy's and some
used or cheap couple of drives to experiment with... I don't want to
wipe my original drive as I plan to keep it for an emergency backup,
and messing with the used drives lets me try everything and anything
until I get the hang of what I'm doing...

I'll post my progress once I get the Caddy's/Drives and start the
process... With what you all have given me I'm sure that one way
or the other I'll get it done... :wink:

Thanks everyone... 8)
Laptop: 760XL, 9547-U9C, Windows 98SE, 166MHz
2.1GB, 104MB RAM, 8xCDROM, Ext. Floppy
BIOS Version - Date: HZET73WW - 12/09/99

Desktop: ASRock 939DUAL, AMD 6400+
2x1GB DDR2-800, Radeon X1950PRO AGP...

My Heatware

phool@round
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:36 pm
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

#10 Post by phool@round » Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:20 pm

wizzard0003 wrote:(snip)......but the download link for
Diskmannager 2000 is broken and the HDD overlay link is broken
as well... :(
Both still work just fine for me. Both are absolutely live, I don't post dead links.

Keep the "A", you'll need it.
R50/52, X20/21/23/24, T23/42/43, 240X, 570, 570E, 770X, 4 760's. + MAC's & SUN's

wizzard0003
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Aberdeen, WA USA

#11 Post by wizzard0003 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:30 am

phool@round wrote:
Both still work just fine for me. Both are absolutely live, I don't post dead links.

Keep the "A", you'll need it.
Just tried them again... Neither will work for me... (?)

I can get to the "site" with the download link for
Disk Manager but the download link itself won't
work...

You've got me... :?:

wizzard0003

\\//_
Laptop: 760XL, 9547-U9C, Windows 98SE, 166MHz
2.1GB, 104MB RAM, 8xCDROM, Ext. Floppy
BIOS Version - Date: HZET73WW - 12/09/99

Desktop: ASRock 939DUAL, AMD 6400+
2x1GB DDR2-800, Radeon X1950PRO AGP...

My Heatware

wizzard0003
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Aberdeen, WA USA

#12 Post by wizzard0003 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:13 am

Do you have to be a memeber/logged into those sites maybe...?

wizzard0003

\\//_
Laptop: 760XL, 9547-U9C, Windows 98SE, 166MHz
2.1GB, 104MB RAM, 8xCDROM, Ext. Floppy
BIOS Version - Date: HZET73WW - 12/09/99

Desktop: ASRock 939DUAL, AMD 6400+
2x1GB DDR2-800, Radeon X1950PRO AGP...

My Heatware

phool@round
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:36 pm
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

#13 Post by phool@round » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:56 pm

Sorry, didn't see your reply...been off the forum for awhile. No, you don't need to be a member. It's Bill Morrow's .thinkpad.com site, free to the world. What OS and browser are you using? Those links aren't that important but would have saved you a little time with your questions.... that's all. It's history now.
R50/52, X20/21/23/24, T23/42/43, 240X, 570, 570E, 770X, 4 760's. + MAC's & SUN's

wizzard0003
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Aberdeen, WA USA

#14 Post by wizzard0003 » Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:29 pm

Well... I'm at a complete loss...

I've Partitioned the drive more times than I can count... At the end it
say's, "You MUST restart for settings to take effect" and "Format
MUST be done After shutting down windows and restarting" or
something close to that...

When I restart (tried both Cont-Alt-Delete and Hard shutdown), all
I get is a blinking cursor and NOTHING happens after that... Keyboard
doesn't work, Cont-Alt-Delete doesn't work, Nothing at all :?:

Each time I've had to instal the drive in my desktop and wipe the
drive to get the Boot disc to let me FDISC and reformat on the
laptop...

I thought I might just boot from the 98SE CD but there is no option
in BIOS for booting from CD on this machine... :x

Anyone want to help... :cry:

BTW, I still can't find anywhere to get that BIOS overlay... The links
provided by phool@round just will not work for me... All I get is
"Page Cannot be Displayed"... :?:

I'm not an old hand at DOS so ANY help would be appreciated... :)

\\//_

PS:
I used Bootdisc for 98SE OEM With CDROM from Bootdisc.com for
partitioning...
Last edited by wizzard0003 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Laptop: 760XL, 9547-U9C, Windows 98SE, 166MHz
2.1GB, 104MB RAM, 8xCDROM, Ext. Floppy
BIOS Version - Date: HZET73WW - 12/09/99

Desktop: ASRock 939DUAL, AMD 6400+
2x1GB DDR2-800, Radeon X1950PRO AGP...

My Heatware

vanaya
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#15 Post by vanaya » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:02 am

The links also works for me, I'm curious to try this. I would love to set up my 760xd with a 5400 drive.
Z61p (WUXGA)/2.16ghz/2gb/60gb, R51/1.8ghz/1gb/160gb, R40/1.5ghz/2gb/80gb, 600E/366mhz/416mb/20gb, Project R51 with SXGA+

phool@round
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Location: Traverse City, Michigan

#16 Post by phool@round » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:35 pm

Download this and put it on a floppy; http://sourceforge.net/projects/btmgr/

Put the Smart Boot Manager in your external floppy, W98SE CD in the CD-Rom drive and reboot.

Choose the CD when booting.....

As long as your not trying to install to a first partition that's not larger than 8G you should be able to install W98SE and boot it up.

Not sure what part your missing?

If your using an overlay are you installing it into the MBR?
R50/52, X20/21/23/24, T23/42/43, 240X, 570, 570E, 770X, 4 760's. + MAC's & SUN's

wizzard0003
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Aberdeen, WA USA

#17 Post by wizzard0003 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:32 pm

Thanks phool@round...

I found my problem... It's the Dang-Nabit FLOPPY drive...!!!

It works intermittently... :x

Looks like I need to get a new external floopy... :cry:

I'll post back once I fix this problem with a report on my
progress...

The saga continues... :lol:

\\//_

Update:
Ordered a new (used) floppy to instal into the external
floppy caddy... Be about 7-10 days until I get it... Wish
me luck... :lol:
Laptop: 760XL, 9547-U9C, Windows 98SE, 166MHz
2.1GB, 104MB RAM, 8xCDROM, Ext. Floppy
BIOS Version - Date: HZET73WW - 12/09/99

Desktop: ASRock 939DUAL, AMD 6400+
2x1GB DDR2-800, Radeon X1950PRO AGP...

My Heatware

phool@round
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:36 pm
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

#18 Post by phool@round » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:45 am

Ah yes, that would be a problem. Good luck with the replacement floppy drive.
R50/52, X20/21/23/24, T23/42/43, 240X, 570, 570E, 770X, 4 760's. + MAC's & SUN's

wizzard0003
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Aberdeen, WA USA

#19 Post by wizzard0003 » Sat May 31, 2008 12:14 pm

Update:

Well, all is not well... :cry:

The first replacement floppy I got didn't work... Sent it back
and they sent a replacement which didn't work either...

Sooo, I'm at an impass...

Without a working floppy, I can't instal 98SE on the new
drive... :(

I've tried installing on another (desktop) machine in the
hopes it would at least boot in the Thinkpad and then I
could re-instal on the Thinkpad, but that was a no-go...
The instal went OK but in the Thinkpad it just beeps twice
and reboots over and over (not a big surprise)...

I don't think it's the floppy controler on the Thinkpad as
each floppy fails in a different way...

The original accesses up to track 3 and then just stops
accessing... The disc continues turning but it just doesn't
do anything after that point...

The first replacement just kept clicking and clicking but
didn't do anything else...

The second replacement would access a couple of times
and then just shut down...

I'm no expert but I'd assume if it was the controler failing
the failure/behavior would be the same for every drive, but
each drive fails in a different way...

But like I said, I'm no expert and this is just an assumption
on my part...

If I ever get a floppy to work I'll revisit this thread and post
my results...

Thanks for all the help from EVERYONE... 8)

\\//_
Laptop: 760XL, 9547-U9C, Windows 98SE, 166MHz
2.1GB, 104MB RAM, 8xCDROM, Ext. Floppy
BIOS Version - Date: HZET73WW - 12/09/99

Desktop: ASRock 939DUAL, AMD 6400+
2x1GB DDR2-800, Radeon X1950PRO AGP...

My Heatware

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