Thinkpad 600x Speedstep and memory questions

[irha]

How do I determine if my model is a speedstep or non-speedstep type? I have a 600x with the model: 2645-7EU and it has 450Mhz PIII. I just ordered two 256mb modules to upgrade the current 128mb modules and am looking towards upgrading the cpu as well. Currently ebay has several bulk PIII 850mhz cpus for under $20 with s/h, so would like to grab one. These are speedstep models. Also, I am running puppy on this, so would I have to do anything special to get it to run at full speed? I would appreciate further information or pointers, I am having hard time doing searches on this forum.

Admin note: Split out from http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79442

[pkiff]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry you are having difficulty using the forum search engine. One thing you might try is to display the results by "topic" rather than by "post". Then you are more likely to find entire threads where your particular questions may be discussed, rather than being overwhelmed by a long list of individual postings.

You have a non-SpeedStep CPU. There were no PIII 450MHz SpeedStep CPUs in any 600X's as far as I know.

I'm pretty sure that the bulk PIII 850MHz CPUs that you are seeing on eBay will NOT fit in your 600X. You need a CPU that is mounted on an MMC-2 board, not just a plain old CPU. When you change your CPU, you will actually be swapping out the entire MMC-2 board with the CPU on it.

For some more general pointers about upgrading your machine, check out the sticky at the top of the Legacy forum here:
The official 600 Upgrade and general information Topic

And if you have additional questions about your specific machine, then start a new thread so that other people can find and follow the thread more easily without thinking it is just a continuation of the discussion here about upgrading from 500MHz to 650MHz.

Phil.

[irha]

Thanks pkiff for the clarification. I will then look for PIII with mmc2 board.

Meanwhile, I received my 256mb ram modules, but my 600x is refusing to recognize them (the ebay seller even advertised 600x compatibility). I followed this post and ordered low density (containing 8 chips in each side) ram only, but though I tried in different configurations, I get error 00225, which apparently means "unsupported memory module". Not sure if something can be done, but will try to do some more research.

[rkawakami]

If you can post a link to the eBay auction we can see if there's something about them which might explain why your 600X threw that 225 error. I've never seen that error occur with any of my 600X systems, even though I've had some bad low density modules.

[irha]

If you can post a link to the eBay auction we can see if there's something about them which might explain why your 600X threw that 225 error. I've never seen that error occur with any of my 600X systems, even though I've had some bad low density modules.

Thanks rkawakami.

ebay link

Search for "600x," and you would find it in the description under "Compatible with IBM Models" section.

[rkawakami]

Hmmm... are those Kingmax-labeled chips on the module (hard to make out from the low-res picture on eBay)??? The design of that module looks vaguely familiar. I'm wondering if this is another version of what I found last year:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=68523

In other words, a 512MB module which has been "altered" to look like a 256MB one. That's my suspicion but I can't prove it since I no longer have access to the bench-top module tester. Do you have another PC100 low density system that you can try the modules in? If not, then I'd take the eBay seller's warranty offer (assuming it's been less than the three days since you've got them) and return them for a refund. Either that, try out another known good low density 256MB module to see if it's your system that's got a problem.

edit: Also, what's the BIOS level of your system? Press and hold F1 when turning on the system until you see the Easy-Setup menu. The BIOS version will be something like 1TETxxWW.

[irha]

Hmmm... are those Kingmax-labeled chips on the module (hard to make out from the low-res picture on eBay)???

There is no manufacturer information. From the individual chips, I can read "16x8SDRAM K 0827 Z8T5". There is a small chip on one corner with the number "91G4 24C021". From other parts of the module, I can read these numbers: "94V-0 BPML BSSF01A".

The design of that module looks vaguely familiar. I'm wondering if this is another version of what I found last year:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=68523

In other words, a 512MB module which has been "altered" to look like a 256MB one. That's my suspicion but I can't prove it since I no longer have access to the bench-top module tester. Do you have another PC100 low density system that you can try the modules in? If not, then I'd take the eBay seller's warranty offer (assuming it's been less than the three days since you've got them) and return them for a refund. Either that, try out another known good low density 256MB module to see if it's your system that's got a problem.

I have a 240 but I couldn't figure out how to access the RAM slot, I will try to look up the maintenance manual and see if I can give it a shot. I don't have another low density 256mb module, all the 3 modules (the two in 600x and the one in 240) are 128mb modules. I received the shipment only yesterday, so hopefully I can request RMA for return by EOD today, if it doesn't seem like this is going to work out.

edit: Also, what's the BIOS level of your system? Press and hold F1 when turning on the system until you see the Easy-Setup menu. The BIOS version will be something like 1TETxxWW.

Bios version is ITET48WW, 11/30/99
System board serial number, in case it can give more information: J1D8U0485VT

I remember updating the bios about 5 years ago when I got this laptop in to my hands, but then again, I got 3 of these 600 series laptops, so not sure if it was this one.

[rkawakami]

16x8 seems to be the right type of parts to be using on the board. 16MB per part x 16 parts on the module = 256MB. The "0827" could be a date code; 2008, work week 27. Not sure what the "Z8T" means - could be a lot or assembly code. The "24C021" is the memory chip which holds the configuration information of the module, otherwise known as the SPD. It's the information in this chip which can tell the system what it is. A defect (or misconfiguration) of the data in the SPD can make the computer think the module is defective or one which cannot be used in the system. That is what I'm suspecting for the cause of the "225" error you see.

If you can't get the modules to work inside the 240, then I believe you have a very good case for an RMA. Although I've seen some people have problems with getting a 240 to recognize what should be a proper low density 256MB module. The BIOS revision is a little bit old (current version is 1TET55WW) but I don't think that this is preventing your system from seeing the 256MB modules. I have a ITET40WW 600X system works fine with 256MB modules.

Have you tried these modules in your other 600-series systems? I think that there's some 600 systems in particular which can't recognize 256MB in a certain slot (2645-45U and 2645-51U comes to mind) but they should otherwise work.

[irha]

Interestingly, I inserted one of the memory modules into the 240 and it got recognized. I now have 327680mb of installed memory and 326912 usable memory. Is this an encouraging sign that it could work in the 600x also? I really want to get this to work in 600x because it would be a good deal for the price I paid (and bad deal to return, as I can't get s/h charges back and will be back to bidding again and most are selling for a lot higher too). Could updating the bios make any difference?

Update: I went ahead and updated the bios anyway and it still gives error 225. If a workaround is unlikely, then I better return two of them and keep the one that is working in the 240.

[rkawakami]

If the second module also works in your 240, then I'd suspect that there's something going on with the 600X. It's possible, but I think not probable that a BIOS update will fix the issue. Looking through the revision history for the 600X BIOS the only thing which points to a change being made for a memory issue is with Linux. That shouldn't have anything to do with the 225 error since that error appears to be coming from the BIOS; before the OS gets loaded. While I'm of the "don't fix it if it works" philosophy when it comes down to BIOS updates, this problem might just be worth the trouble of upgrading the BIOS and seeing if the issue goes away.

However, that said, before trying the BIOS update, clean the traces on the edges of both sides of the modules using a pencil eraser (ink erasers are probably a little bit too rough) and then try them again in the 600X. Or you can use some isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol on a Q-tip. There might be some contamination on the traces which interferes with the 600X's slot(s).

[irha]

I tried to clean the contacts with 99% alcohol and that made no difference. I also made sure all cards work in the 240, but not in the 600x. I guess I just have to return them now. Thanks a lot for your time and trying to help me out.

[Bookworm]

I checked the eBay link and it said something about 133Mhz compatibility. If these are PC-133 modules that could be the problem. Low density PC-133 modules are supposed to work, but are you sure these are low density?

There are 850Mhz MMC-2 boards on eBay, but they are a little more than $20.00

[irha]

The seller advertised that these are PC-100 and that they can work at PC-133 if the laptop supports it, besides he specifically mentioned 600x, which is why I purchased it. If that is the problem does that mean 240 has better compatibility than 600x?

Where did you see 850mhz listings on ebay? I ordered a used 600mhz for $8 with free s/h after seeing that others are much more and didn't even see a single 850mhz at that time (and wanted to see how it will workout without breaking the bank). Since I have a 450mhz cpu, the improvement is probably good enough to cross the threshold to play most streaming videos smoothly. I was also not sure if my laptop could take full advantage of the mhz.

[Bookworm]

Do an eBay search for "MMC-2". The 850Mhz is at the top of the list of stuff found in eBay stores at the bottom of the first page.

Are the RAMs 8 or 16 chip? 256Mb low density would have 16 chips. Low density PC-133 will work in the 600X, but not high density (8 chip). PC-100 RAM shouldn't be expected to work at 133Mhz. I think you got ripped off. Welcome to eBay.

[rkawakami]

@Bookworm: If you look back at the third post in this thread, you'll see where irha states that there's "8 chips in each side". That's a total of 16 memory chips on a 256MB module, ergo, low density (in normal circumstances). Yes, PC100 ram will not work at 133Mhz, but that's not the case here with the 600X. Those systems have a 100Mhz front side bus so whatever memory is installed runs at 100Mhz. Putting in a PC133 rated module just means that there's an even better margin for having the data ready when it is supposed to. It does NOT mean that the system will run faster since the 600X cannot automatically adjust the memory bus speed. It also seems to have been established that the modules do work in a 240, which has a slower 66Mhz FSB.

From my standpoint, there's either something very strange going on with the configuration of the 256MB modules that irha received (improperly programmed SPD information or the module actually using high density parts but the SPD programmed to "lie" about it) or that there's something not right with the 600X. About the only way to decide what the problem is, would be to install a module which is known to work in another 600X and see what happens.

As far as the 850Mhz CPU upgrade goes, there's lots of information in the thread that pkiff referenced. I believe that the basic problem with installing an 850Mhz MMC-2 CPU module has to do with it being stuck at the lower SpeedStep-induced frequency unless some mods are done to the module. As I'm not an expert with this type of upgrade, you'll have to go searching around the forum for the specifics.

[irha]

As rkawakami said, pc133 should have no problem working at a lower speed, and the fact that it is working in 240 means, it is able to work at 66mhz. So, something is unique about this not working in 600x.

Bookworm, interestingly, searching for "mmc-2" finds more hits on ebay than simply for "mmc2", who knew ebay's search is so bad. Even though I still more items, I still can't find a 850mhz cpu, but if it what you saw earlier was true, it would have been a fantastic deal (I am sorry you thought $20 was too much, but based on what is available right now, you can't get anything more than a 650mhz for that price).

[whizkid]

Update: I went ahead and updated the bios anyway and it still gives error 225. If a workaround is unlikely, then I better return two of them and keep the one that is working in the 240.

After a BIOS update, be sure to Initialize the system and try again.

[irha]

Update: I went ahead and updated the bios anyway and it still gives error 225. If a workaround is unlikely, then I better return two of them and keep the one that is working in the 240.

After a BIOS update, be sure to Initialize the system and try again.

I can't enter the bios itself with the new modules due to the error 225, but I did initialize with the existing modules.

The RAM seller from ebay responded and his initial remarks seemed to indicate he has both PC100 and PC133 modules, so probably can do an exchange for PC100 (increasing the chance of being compatible), but I asked for clarifications on this.

[Bookworm]

Irha, I didn't say $20.00 was too much, I said they were "a little more" than $20.00. If they were only $20.00 I'd have ordered two.

Here's one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mobile-Inte-MMC-2-P ... .m20.l1116

I should have looked up the 240, I didn't know the FSB. Isn't your 600X still 66Mhz? If so something is definitely weird here. Did you clean the contacts yet?

[irha]

I tried cleaning the contacts already as I reported earlier. They all worked in 240 which is PC-66. I think 600x is PC100 (at least my original RAM clearly says so).

[wolf]

Here's one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mobile-Inte-MMC-2-P ... .m20.l1116

there were two left out of 4, and i just bought one for my SpeedStep 600X

not sure how it will perform in terms of heat output, or how my (down to 40 minutes, gotta reset it soon) battery will like it

the 600X runs a 100MHz FSB. almost any PC100 module will work, 256MB modules need to be 16-chip units. 66MHz memory will NOT work because the P3 CPU is what defines the 100MHz FSB.

just a thought, it would be intersting to see if a 600X would run an MMC-2 Pentium II and 66MHz memory, not useful but just for fun

[irha]

Just to update, I got replacement RAM that is rated PC100 and it was recognized just fine. Since my PCMCIA slot stopped working meanwhile, I just purchased a used 600x to extract this (and may be other parts in the future) and see if replacing the part will fix the problem (I can even try replacing motherboard, since what I bought might have a working MB as well). I am really looking forward to a getting my PCMCIA slot.