Thinkpads Forum

I know the HD's of the TP600 series are interchangeable. Are there any others?

In other words, if I want to replace the HD on my 600x, are there other places I can look besides IBM? Perchance, is there a generic ID for these drives?

Any parallel ATA IDE 2.5" hard drive will work. There are not many to choose from new however, this one is a favorite.

Neil beat me to it, but he is pretty much correct.

Any PATA/IDE 2.5" IDE drive should work. I would look for a drive around 120GB or so. I am not sure if the 600 series can use drives that are larger than 128GB.

Other than that, you should be good to go.

Even if you much purchase a drive like WD Scorpio 160GB drive, if you partition it into say a 100GB partition followed by a 60GB partition you should be just fine. I think the limitation primarily applies to the first (primary) partition.

Temetka wrote:Even if you much purchase a drive like WD Scorpio 160GB drive, if you partition it into say a 100GB partition followed by a 60GB partition you should be just fine. I think the limitation primarily applies to the first (primary) partition.

I can confirm this. I've got a 600X with a 160GB and I've partitioned it into a number of smaller partitions (all less than 100GB) and it works fine.

Over on the Thinkpad Mailing List, there was someone who ran into difficulties with a 160GB when installing Win2000 for some reason. My 160GB was created from a clone of a 60GB, and then resizing it with Acronis during the clone (I think!).

Phil.

Would you realy need a drive over 120GB on a 600? $59 for that 160GB drive is a decent price. Most new laptop drives would be SATA so avoid those.

pkiff wrote: Over on the Thinkpad Mailing List, there was someone who ran into difficulties with a 160GB when installing Win2000 for some reason.

Windows 2000 doesn't fully support drives larger than 137GB. At minimum you must have SP3 or later slipstreamed into the CD to install and even then the installer will not create partitions larger than 137GB; you would need to use a third-party utility to expand the partition after the install. Not sure if SP4 resolved this or not (I did a lot of Win2k installs including big drives but never tried to do a big partition). Similarly WinXP needs SP1 or later integrated. (Some boot-CD builders will hack around the SP limitations by just integrating the updated atapi.sys driver.)

pkiff wrote:I can confirm this. I've got a 600X with a 160GB and I've partitioned it into a number of smaller partitions (all less than 100GB) and it works fine.

WD320 also works fine in 600x with latest BIOS ...but the 160GB Samsung seems to be faster and without any noise

I have a WD 320 gig in my 600X. Windows 2K SP4 or XP SP2 will work with a drive this size, but if you install the service pack after you install the OS, you will need to enable 48-bit LBA with a registry editor. It's very simple:http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305098

There is an upgrade for Windows 98 too, but it only works if the BIOS supports very large drives, so it won't help on a 600X.

Anybody put a 160GB- or other >128GB-HD into a 600E (2645-550)?

I tried this with my samsung, only with a copied 4GB Win98-partition (w/ fixed mbr, copied sys-files, activated partition for booting in "safe mode" of course) and deleted all other partitions, so I'm definitely not above that 128GB boundary) -- but (still) "no boot device" (i9990305); anyhow, the HD is powered when I switch the machine on.

Is this because of Win98 and/or do I need some BIOS-updates first?
If so, this'd be bad, because for whatever reason I can't access my CDROM.

Hm, would it help then to install XP SP2 onto the drive (first steps on my desktop and the rest of the install on the 600E with copied .cabs [don't know if that'll work]) to see if the disk runs on the 600E?

gµlp wrote:[...]with a copied 4GB Win98-partition (w/ fixed mbr, copied sys-files, activated partition for booting in "safe mode" of course) and deleted all other partitions

Does doing this even work with a 20GB (or whatever) drive? I'm not sure about your method here: copying files instead of cloning them, and using a partition you created how exactly?

I would recommend starting with a regular working drive in your 600E, and then cloning it to your 160GB (leaving the rest of the space as unallocated) and see if you can figure out how to get that working. That should allow you to narrow down your first stage of troubleshooting on whether or not the 160GB Samsung is actually recognizable in your 600E. Once that is working, then everything else should follow more easily. Copying and cloning are different, I think, in terms of how exactly the MBR gets created and what the exact drive geometry is when everything is done.

Alternatively, I would use another Thinkpad to wipe the 160GB and start with a single, blank partition, less than 127GB. And then see if you can install Win98 to it the way you would normally install Win98 onto a blank hard drive on your 600E.

I've got my 160GB dual-booting Win98SE and XPSP2 in my 600X. I started with a functional, dual-booting 60GB drive, and cloned it, resized the partitions, and then I think I had to fiddle with a single registry entry in Windows (XP? 98SE? or both? I don't recall) where Windows saves some kind of cached entry describing some location on the hard drive.

Phil.

...with a copied 4GB Win98-partition (w/ fixed mbr, copied sys-files, activated partition for booting in "safe mode" of course) and deleted all other partitions

((funny: putting just 1 quote into another does not work...))

pkiff wrote:Does doing this even work with a 20GB (or whatever) drive? I'm not sure about your method here: copying files instead of cloning them, and using a partition you created how exactly?

Hi Phil,
thanks and sorry for confusion, actually I mean cloning. So this was exactly what I did:
Using Linux with gparted in my desktop
(1) I deleted the 160GB drive completely,
(2) cloned a 4 GB-win98se-partition from another drive to it at the very beginning (there were no other partitions then)
(3) powered the desktop off,
(4) changed the 160GB drive to 1st master,
(5) booted with a win98 boot floppy,
(6) a:\ fdisk /mbr
(7) a:\ sys c:
(8) activated the partition with fdisk,
(9) rebooted the hdd and selected [F8] for "save mode" (because of driver issues on the 'new' machine otherwise)
==> win98 started on the dektop without a problem

while

it wouldn't start in the 600E! ...maybe because of missing drivers for win98?

Well, it also didn't work with the cloned xubuntu-partition form the original ibm 6.4GB hdd before. But this was maybe because on the 160GB drive there was also an extended partition reaching beyond the 128GB boundary. I should give it another try with a cloned xubuntu-partition only.

pkiff wrote:Alternatively, I would use another Thinkpad to wipe the 160GB and start with a single, blank partition, less than 127GB. And then see if you can install Win98 to it the way you would normally install Win98 onto a blank hard drive on your 600E.

That's nice but, I don't have a spare TP.

pkiff wrote:I've got my 160GB dual-booting Win98SE and XPSP2 in my 600X. I started with a functional, dual-booting 60GB drive, and cloned it, resized the partitions, and then I think I had to fiddle with a single registry entry in Windows (XP? 98SE? or both? I don't recall) where Windows saves some kind of cached entry describing some location on the hard drive.

I don't know if would work better with XP yet---haven't even used windows for years. Nonetheless the 600E needs some BIOS update before what I can't do because the CDROM isn't accessible (see above).

gµlp

Mmmm...not sure what to recommend. It is possible that there are differences between some 600E's and my 600X that affect this (BIOS or hardware).

Also, sometimes it can make a difference whether you work on a drive while it is installed in your Thinkpad instead of working on it while installed in a desktop. All of my work on my 160GB drive was done with the 160GB installed in my Thinkpad. I used a 2nd HDD adapter for some of it, and I used boot floppies (DOS, and GParted) when necessary. But I didn't create partitions or do any formatting of the drive with the drive installed anywhere but in the ThinkPad itself. In some cases, though, this can mean a great deal of extra time and work, and in the end, it may not make any difference, so it is not necessarily the best option for everyone...

Phil.

Hi,

I don't know if I got you right; I 'transplanted' those HDs with cloned partition(s) from the desktop or from another laptop into the 600E not for "working" but only for testing---to see, if they would boot in the 600E at all; therefor I'd boot them in "safe mode" only. (I don't have a floppy or [working] CDROM, just the harddrive.) On the original ibm-drive (6.4GB) there was only xubuntu on it, which I dislike and don't have the root password from. So my 'theory' was like this, that e.g. such a simple OS like (a pre-installed) win98 (in safe mode) might boot everywhere; if this works with a small disk, then maybe on a disk >128GB, too. And then, maybe it'd work with xp as well, of that kind, that I'd start a fresh installation with all files copied to the same HD but in another computer, and put into the 600E before the first reboot and finish the installation from there.

But so far all failed: on the 6.4GB drive win98 boots on another (old) laptop and on the desktop ("in safe mode") without problem, but not on the 600E! Only a message like "Wrong OS type. Change drive and press key" appears...
So unfortunately for me, the worries about whether the 600E works together with large a HD, are quite unnecessary now. Seemingly I need a working CDROM or floppy first, because any OS probably boots only on the 600E if it is installed there.

But another question: are you able to use the whole space of your 160GB drive in your 600X?

gµlp wrote:I don't know if I got you right[...]

What I'm getting at is that in some cases Thinkpads seem to have a drive geometry that is just a tiny bit unique. I don't know what the uniqueness is, or why it is there, or how to describe it, or even whether it exists on all Thinkpads or just a list of specific Thinkpads. What I know is that in some cases, people who have had difficulty installing a new drive in a Thinkpad system have sometimes found that otherwise unexplained incompatibility issues go away if they create the partitions and/or format the disk while it is installed in the intended destination Thinkpad (rather than configuring/partitioning it while the drive is plugged into a desktop or a different laptop). I have not actually had a personal experience with this, but I haven't used a non-Thinkpad to configure any of my drives. It is probably a long shot, but if you are trying to eliminate all possible culprits before giving up, then this is one potential culprit to eliminate.

gµlp wrote:But another question: are you able to use the whole space of your 160GB drive in your 600X?

. Yes, I have access to the full 160GB, but no single partition is larger than 90GB. But as I say, I increased the partition sizes after I cloned a working 60GB drive that was already functioning correctly as a multi-boot (Win98SE and XPSP2) drive for my 600X.

Phil.

Thanks a lot, Phil!

But again: I'd rather configure and boot any drive directly in the 600E, small and big ones, but for whatever reason none work! Preparing them in another computer and 'transplanting' them into the 600E then is of course only a temporary solution. And what makes things more difficult is, that the HD was my only working booting device.

And there are even more limitations:
* wiped a once booting and working xubuntu-partition from the the original 64.GB HD, because I have no use of it and don't know its root passphrase anyway. When putting the blank HD in, the BIOS doesn't find a boot device of course. But when I 'transplanted' it with a fresh and working win98se install however, then 600E BIOS says, it grumbles about a wrong OS type
* when putting in the 160GB HD, 600E always doesn't find a boot device, and it's the same if it is blank or not
* But it seems that as long the BIOS won't find a 'corresponding HD' there's always an error---no matter what boot sequence is configured or whatever boot manager (like the mentioned plop) is installed. So what...?!

That means, actually I can't even boot from any HD in the 600E.

Using Linux with gparted in my desktop
(1) I deleted the 160GB drive completely,
(2) cloned a 4 GB-win98se-partition from another drive to it at the very beginning (there were no other partitions then)
(3) powered the desktop off,
(4) changed the 160GB drive to 1st master,
(5) booted with a win98 boot floppy,
(6) a:\ fdisk /mbr
(7) a:\ sys c:
(8) activated the partition with fdisk,
(9) rebooted the hdd and selected [F8] for "save mode" (because of driver issues on the 'new' machine otherwise)
==> win98 started on the dektop without a problem

while

it wouldn't start in the 600E! ...maybe because of missing drivers for win98?

This is not only a driver problem!

The LBA-access in your desktop is not compatible to the 600e - so your desktop wrote data in a wrong way for the 600e.

Put the new hdd into the 600e hdd slot, get software for low level format from hdd manufactory and format the new hdd to get the "right LBA"
put the old hdd to an USB-to-IDE-adaptor
boot gparted/acronis from ultrabay-drive

This way works well for me with all older Thinkpads

There are also some other ways to do this job - depending of our hardware (floppy disk + plop see http://www.plop.at + PCMCIA-Ultrabaydrive + second hdd adaptor...). But the new drive ever have to be in internal hdd-slot from target machine.

"The win98 rules"... bootpartion must be end within the first 8gb and win98 only supports partitions within the first 128gb (all higher partitions will not be seen - depends also for external hdds).

Some good hdd manufactors have hdd manager (like the well known "ontrack") for the LBA-problem.

u.mac, you're my man!

For my samsung hm160hc, I found this tool; will check this out later. I guess this works on any machine the same way, right? (Bec. probably the 600E refuses the blank disk, so there'll be an error and I can't start plop though I installed it into the mbr, and therefore I'd put it into the desktop.)

Are there any parameters to be aware of?

NB: I know about these limitations with win98. Because of this, I also used small HDs, eg the original 6.4GB-drive (which also failed). And since I haven't got in internal fd for the 600e yet, I can't flash the BIOS for xp-support.