Thinkpads Forum

Posted: **Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:33 pm**

Hi,
I have a thinkpad 765d, with a 26 k modem and windows 98. Each time i surf onthe web, the modem stops after about 3 minutes and the computer send me a timeout message telling something like: the time is elapsed for loading the page.

If i re-start the computer, it will works again for another 3 minutes and so on....

What is the problem?

Do i have to install window95 instead of 98?
In the pass 98 was ok.

Thanks.

Posted: **Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:13 pm**

Moved to the Legacy Hardware forum.

Posted: **Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:10 am**

Ok, a few questions...

Which Windows? Windows 98 or Windows 98SE (right click my computer, choose properties to see version)

How much memory is in this machine? (from the same window as above)

How much hard disk space is available? (click on C: in My Computer, look at the pie chart)

Are you using the internal MWave or a cardbus/pcmcia modem (if so which one)?

Connecting straight to the net with windows dial-up via an ISP or are you using something like NetZero (I love they still offer free access

)

Could you also be more specific with the errors you receive? "something like" is not as helpful as the actual error messages

You mentioned in the past Windows 98 worked for you... was that on this machine and how long ago is "in the past"?

I have several of the 760 series, including a working 760XD (which is the same as a 765D but smaller screen afaik, including the internal MWave modem)

Posted: **Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:43 pm**

I have found these aditional informations who i hope can help to solve the problem.

1) - systeme d'exploitation: windows 98 deuxième édition 4.10.2222A
- this computer was a gift, so i don't have the installation cd for windows 98
- there is a ticket glued on the computer, asking to use it with windows 95
2) memory: processor 24 Mo ram
3) Hard disk space: Total capacity 1.96 Go; used space 1.32 Go; free space 652 Mo; system fat32
4) Internal wave or card bus: I'm not an expert and don't understand what it is; The modem is an internal modem think pad 336 data FAX VOD
5) Connect to net with dial up or net zero: Here too, I'm not sure of what it is. When i connect to the web, the modem compose a number ,like a telephone number, something like 345-5632.the compluter is plugged in an old telephone line.
6) The error message is: The operation timed out when attempting to contact http://www.....
7) The computer was working well (with windows 98) before this problem some months ago.
For example if i use it to play email chess, i will be able to play 2 or 3 moves before the error message; then, i will have to restart the computer and play another 2 or 3 moves and so on......

Hoping this can help you. If other informations are necessary, don't hesitate to ask me.

Thanks

Posted: **Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:47 pm**

Not having used a modem in many years, my only guess would be that the computer is being disconnected because it thinks you are "idle".

ref: http://home.dialupatcost.ca/support.php ... disconnect

Posted: **Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:14 am**

Just an idle disconnect would not need a reboot to get online again.

So, this leads me to ask what happens when you just try to reconnect?

Is any message displayed when you get disconnected?

It would really help to know how you connect, different ISPs have different policies. And some like netzero (don't know if there is a Canadian counterpart) don't obey Windows dial-up settings for ignoring idle. Does your dial-up screen look similar to this image?:

4K modem friendly image:

If so, where it says Connect to, does it say more? like a name? My brother still has dial-up, his says Connect to trip.net

If you can reconnect without actually rebooting, then something like Connection Keeper might help: http://www.gammadyne.com/conkeep.htm

This app keeps the connection in a non idle state so you dont get disconnected, and if you do will re-connect for you.

However, if you MUST reboot to get a new connection, then it is possible we have a hardware issue.

You mentioned email, this would help us know who your ISP is possibly... what does your email address end in? hotmail.com? google.com? do you connect to email through outlook express or internet explorer?

You gotta remember we can't see your screen, so the more info you provide the easier it is for us to "see" problems. No need to divulge whole email address or other personal info, but the basics would really help.

Posted: **Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:30 am**

So, this leads me to ask what happens when you just try to reconnect?

When the timeout message happens the modem is still connected. There is a counter , down at the right side of the screen who gives me the number of octets sent and received by the modem. These numbers could be something like 120,000 and 110,000 octets. But these numbers are different each time i make a new trial.

If i try to continue despite the timeout message i will see the cursor (who indicates the % of loading) of the browser who hesitates at the beginning to finally fill all the space (very fast) to indicate a 100% loading; but it's not true the octets numbers still remain the same and the page is not loaded.

The problem is the same wathever i use IE or firefox.

Posted: **Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am**

Still need the rest to help, but is the counter displayed in the system tray and does it look like the icon in the connection image i posted?

Posted: **Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:27 am**

Yes, when i click on the modem icon, the picture who appears is identical to the one you sent on the forum.
The furnisher is netrevolution.com. I use the same line (same telephone number) for the computer i use now to send you these messages.

I don't find any idle setting.

Posted: **Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:28 am**

Ok, you are connected using Windows dial-up, no middleman software.

You aren't actually disconnecting from the net, but it appears to not be resolving names (DNS Issue).

The connection icon remains, but all traffic stops. Still wondering what happens if you right click the connection icon and choose disconnect, then try connecting again as the machine is still working and not locked up as your just failing to connect with firefox/ie

but, while you are connected, click start, then run, then type command into the run box, click ok.

in the black window that pops up, type "ping google.com" without the quotes, press enter... should look something like this:

Code: Select all

C:\>ping google.com

Pinging google.com [74.125.127.106] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 74.125.127.106: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.127.106: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.127.106: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=50
Reply from 74.125.127.106: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=50

Ping statistics for 74.125.127.106:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 40ms, Maximum =  41ms, Average =  40ms

C:\>

Do this as soon as possible after connecting, then again after your browser quits working. If this shows 4 lines of "Request timed out." where the "Reply from" lines used to be, then we have a DNS problem. (I don't think this as you are successfully using the same provider/number/phoneline for the machine your posting with correct?)

We will try to make sure it is not a software 1st, driver 2nd problem before accusing the hardware, could wind up we have a bad modem. (can get a used pcmcia one for cheap these days though) (btw, cardbus/pcmcia are those thin slots on the right side of your laptop, near the back, this would also get you 56K connection

search for 02k4249)

Anyhoo, before I get too far off track run those tests please

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:08 pm**

- When i disconnect modem after timeout , nothing happens. I can reconnect the modem go on the web and obtain the same error message.

- When i disconnect modem during the page loading, i will receive an error message telling that the computer cannot find the site.

-When i run command/ping google.com,immediatly after connecting the modem, a picture similar to the one sent on the forum appears on the screen. With 4 lines and different numbers.

- when i run command/ping google.com, after the error message, the same picture appears again on the screen , with bigger numbers. Still with the 4 lines.

- I use IE5 or firefox 5.0 to browse
- I have noticed that the 26k modem receive the data at a speed of 28.6 K. I wonder if it is normal?
- If i reboot many times the computer, i will increase the surfing time on the web. As an exemple, this morning after a first trial i was not able to reach the homepage of my chess site (receiving 1330 bytes).After a first reboot i was able to play one move (receiving 470,000 bytes). After a second reboot i was able to play almost 3 moves (receiving 650,000 bytes) and so on..... I remember having received 1,250,000 bytes this way.
- I read the bytes received by pointing the arrow of the mouse on the modem icon, down at the right of the screen, with permanent programs.
- If i want to download a 1Mo file, i will be able to download 700 to 900 Ko
- I can eliminate a lot of programs and files to create space.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:26 pm**

Try to reset TCPIP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/299357

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:21 pm**

@harryc: There is no netsh in Windows 98SE (OP stated 4.10.2222A), think this applies to 2k and above. OP will just receive a bad command or file name error

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@penseur:

penseur wrote: when i run command/ping google.com, after the error message, the same picture appears again on the screen , with bigger numbers. Still with the 4 lines.

could you paste the 4 lines here before and after? Sounds like your still connected, but are hitting timeouts, could be protocol problems.

penseur wrote:I have noticed that the 26k modem receive the data at a speed of 28.6 K. I wonder if it is normal?

Your modem is a 28.8k modem, so 28.6k is VERY good.

penseur wrote:If i reboot many times the computer, i will increase the surfing time on the web. As an exemple, this morning after a first trial i was not able to reach the homepage of my chess site (receiving 1330 bytes).After a first reboot i was able to play one move (receiving 470,000 bytes). After a second reboot i was able to play almost 3 moves (receiving 650,000 bytes) and so on..... I remember having received 1,250,000 bytes this way.

So each reboot lasts longer then the last or is this the total after each try? 470k +xxxk = 650k + xxxk = 1250k. If it last longer each reboot, then we can prolly rule out a hardware issue, hardware usually behaves in an opposite fashion, longer = less work.

penseur wrote:I can eliminate a lot of programs and files to create space.

How much hard disk space is free?

Have you installed MS DUN 1.4? the Dial-up Networking upgrade? If not, you need that, it fixes several issues. Do you have the lasted modem drivers from IBM? Again, if not, get those. As far as not having the Windows 98 CD, open My Computer, right click the hard disk and choose "Find...", in the box that comes up, place *.cab into the "Named:" box and hit enter, if it finds a bunch named win98_xx.cab, then you have the CD on the hard disk, might wanna back that up and make a boot diskette (with the right tools you can make a bootable 98 CD even).

For Windows 98SE the best thing is to get the "Unofficial Windows 98 SE Service Pack 2.1a", but the creator states you need 32MB ram minimum. It has ALL MS patches/fixes + other enhancements.

Before we mess with removing and reinstalling TCP/IP, you MUST have the cab files from the CD.

Posted: **Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:35 pm**

- When I reboot, eacn session is longer than the preceding one .I have to reconnect the modem each time, so, when i reboot the byte counter should fall to zero each time

- I think i have near 750 Mo free on disk

Posted: **Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:27 am**

[*]could you paste the 4 lines here before and after? Sounds like your still connected, but are hitting timeouts, could be protocol problems.[*]

after 1st trial and timeout

reponse de 74.125.115.99:octet=32 :temps=281,262,297,252 (for each line)ms: TTL=52
¨¨

after connecting the modem at 1st reboot

reponse de 74.125.115.99:octet=32: temps=291,279,280,1419ms (for each line):TTL=52

- How can you say it's time to change the drivers?
I've found that the modem was thinkpad3.36 data fax vod and the drivers was comm.drv

Thanks

Posted: **Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:33 am**

You should also look in the COM port settings in Device Manager.
Set Baudrate/Bits per second = 115.000, Data bits = 8, Parity = None, Stop bits = 1 and Flow Control = Hardware
If Flow Control is set to something else, that's often the cause of disconnect.

Posted: **Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:00 am**

@RealBlackStuff: Won't hurt to check, but he is not getting disconnected per say, he can still ping stuff after what appears to be a disconnect. Look at that last ping time below though... 1419ms! something wierd happening.

@penseur:

penseur wrote:after 1st trial and timeout

reponse de 74.125.115.99:octet=32 :temps=281,262,297,252 (for each line)ms: TTL=52

translated=

Code: Select all

Reply from 74.125.115.99: bytes=32 time=281ms TTL=52
Reply from 74.125.115.99: bytes=32 time=262ms TTL=52
Reply from 74.125.115.99: bytes=32 time=297ms TTL=52
Reply from 74.125.115.99: bytes=32 time=252ms TTL=52

This actually looks better then the working set of pings below.

penseur wrote:after connecting the modem at 1st reboot

reponse de 74.125.115.99:octet=32: temps=291,279,280,1419ms (for each line):TTL=52

translated=

Code: Select all

Reply from 74.125.115.99: bytes=32 time=291ms TTL=52
Reply from 74.125.115.99: bytes=32 time=279ms TTL=52
Reply from 74.125.115.99: bytes=32 time=280ms TTL=52
Reply from 74.125.115.99: bytes=32 time=1419ms TTL=52

[/quote]
This last line is the wierd part, all the ping times are rather high, but 1419ms(1.4 seconds) is WAY high. The modem is still connected, but something is definately awry. I would like to see a ping line to the same address from your working machine to see if the 280-300ms is normal for you. (mine were in the 40 range a few days ago, today they are around 100ms, so 280 from your location is not unimaginable)

penseur wrote:How can you say it's time to change the drivers? I've found that the modem was thinkpad3.36 data fax vod and the drivers was comm.drv

Yea, my bad, it is indeed a "MDSP2780 MWave DSP 33.6Kbps" but 28.6k is still pretty good. comm.drv is the com port driver built into windows.

My Thinkpad 760XD has the exact same modem in it, the drivers are Version 2.25a

part of the readme.txt:

Code: Select all

The following ThinkPad models are supported.

    - ThinkPad 755CD, 755CDV, 755CE, 755CSE, 755CV and 755CX
    - ThinkPad 760C, 760CD, 760E, 760ED, [b]760XD[/b] and [b]765D[/b]

<2.25a>
 - (New) Windows 98 Support.

<2.25>
 - (New) 33.6K bps Modem speed (V.34) support.

So, this driver should be at 2.25a for 98, you also need to make sure you have msdun14.exe installed.

Also, when the modem is messing up, try going to http://74.125.115.99/
This will bypass the DNS server and try to connect directly to google.
I would also like you to try several pings after is messes up, to see if that 1419 line was a fluke.

As far as the drivers, I was referring mainly to reinstalling the TCP/IP stack drivers, but this requires the windows 98 cab files. Did yo look for those on your hard disk?

Posted: **Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:04 pm**

realblack... said: [quote="RealBlackStuff"]You should also look in the COM port settings in Device Manager.
Set Baudrate/Bits per second = 115.000, Data bits = 8, Parity = None, Stop bits = 1 and Flow Control = Hardware

All these parameters are set like this, except i don't find any flow control. My boxes are in french and perhaps this is named differently. As soon as possible i will send on the site all the modem boxes parameters.

to ozzymud: I have made other trials of ping process with thinkpad and my main computer.I have retained only the 4 times numbers, the other ones being alway the same. The fifth number is the bytes received by thinkpad.

With thinkpad:

- after boot/connect:(289,275,275,276) 1451bytes

- after surf/timeout:( 295,251,253,254) 47668bytes

- after reboot/connect:(285,271,257,259) 1951 byt

- aft. 2ndsurf/timout:(286,279,276,279) 124066 byt

- aft.2ndreboot/connec:(279,248,251,250) 1874 byt

- aft3rd/surf/timout:(279,278,259,250) 460000by

With main computer (windowsxp,52k modem at 45.6bps)

- boot (244,193,1648,362)

-reboot (173,162,164,161)

- reach this site (177,182,323,566)

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:41 am**

penseur wrote:All these parameters are set like this, except i don't find any flow control. My boxes are in french and perhaps this is named differently.

The box layout is the same in any language, the last field at the bottom is the Flow Control (contrôle de flux ?)

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:16 pm**

Here is what you should see (just in French

):

19k modem safe image (< 1 second @ 28.8k):

Don't worry about setting 115000 on a 33.6 modem, 57000 is fine, but the last box should be hardware like RBS says, it might currently read "Xon/Xoff" or "none".

But, judging from the ping times on both your machines, you seem to be having driver issues. Did you locate your cab files on the hard disk? Before we go any further, you NEED a copy of Windows 98 (the cab files I talked about will suffice)... here is what you should see:

24k modem safe image (< 1 second @ 28.8k):

Notice all the cabs in c:\windows\options\cabs... we NEED to look for these. They can be used to make a Windows 98 CD as well. I don't wanna chance messing up Windows by continuing without the Windows 98 cabs.

EDIT: Couldn't resist putting 98SE on my Thinkpad 760XD for this thread, Installed NetZero as well (10 hours a month free dial-up

)

Here is a screenshot of it in action:

24k modem safe image (thumbnail, click for 107k full size jpg):

(or the original print screen bitmap http://www.conradshome.com/thinkpad/ima ... dialup.jpg <--- WARNING: 2.25MB)

Hardware is almost identical to the 765D, same mWave 33.6 modem, 1024x768 screen. This machine has 40MB of ram and a CF "SSD" @ 4GB. It connects at 28.8k and has ping times similar to the OP's

The home page is set to "google.conradshome.com", it was snagged from an archive.org snapshot from 1999, it loads blindingly fast on dial-up

The IE is 5.5 vanilla included with 98SE. There are actually SIX dial-up numbers for NetZero where I live... haha

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:41 pm**

- my modem boxes are a little bit different. There is no flow control, but there are two buffers we can adjust for receiving and emitting. Cursor low/high.

- there are a lot of files who have the extensions .cab

- some months ago i have many times re-installed windows 98 using install98.exe. It takes about 30 minutes to install but the result is always the same. I have skipped each time the diskette section.

- by now i will try to find the name of the latest modem drivers. I'm waiting answers from many websites.

-Are the dun14 files absolutely necessaries to operate the modem? Thinkpad told me that some are corrupted and it seems that there is conflict between files if i want tu install new dun program.They are from year 2001.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:34 am**

penseur wrote:- my modem boxes are a little bit different. There is no flow control, but there are two buffers we can adjust for receiving and emitting. Cursor low/high.

I don't know if yours are different simply because of the French edition of 98 or because you have not done the standard updates, pictures would help clarify when there is a discrepancy.

penseur wrote:- there are a lot of files who have the extensions .cab

Where are they located? Looking for a lot of them in the same folder. Mainly a group of them that are named win98_XX.cab (XX is a number between 21 & 74)

penseur wrote:- some months ago i have many times re-installed windows 98 using install98.exe. It takes about 30 minutes to install but the result is always the same. I have skipped each time the diskette section.

This is getting more confusing. The windows 98 install program is named setup.exe (unless again the french edition is different). Where are you running install98.exe from? You stated you didn't have the windows 98 install CD, but the setup/cab files are basically the same as the CD when used with a startup diskette (the one you skip).

penseur wrote:- by now i will try to find the name of the latest modem drivers. I'm waiting answers from many websites.

The most current IBM ones are dated 24 Jun1998 (version 2.25a) and are located here: [url=http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/researc ... MIGR-59734]http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/researc ... -59734[url], it is 3 disks.

penseur wrote:-Are the dun14 files absolutely necessaries to operate the modem? Thinkpad told me that some are corrupted and it seems that there is conflict between files if i want tu install new dun program.They are from year 2001.

I can't say in all honesty if they are "absolutely necessary", but that several other updates affect TCP/IP. I can't recall any 98SE updates that are "bad" for the system. And this is possibly why you are seeing different screens then the rest of us, which makes troubleshooting near impossible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, with all that said, and to check something else... when your connection fails, while the modem is still connected... click start, then run... in the run box, type telnet and hit enter. In the telnet app that opens, click Connect & Remote System (top option), fill in towel.blinkenlights.nl into the Host name and click connect... see if you get connected and see an ascii rendition of the Star Wars movie. This will let us know if just the http is failing or if the whole tcp/ip stack is involved.

Posted: **Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:13 pm**

Hi,

Sorry being late to post, i had some problems. I have accidentally lost the sound and modem drivers. I have download new ones from internet, but have problems to install it.
They are mwaves 2.25,a,b,c , in three files. The installation program ask me to insert a 3 1/2 diskette labeled 2??? What it is? I'm not familiar with diskette operation. When i insert a new diskette, the message comes back.

Posted: **Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:58 pm**

mwavew9a.exe = disk 1
mwavew9b.exe = disk 2
mwavew9c.exe = disk 3

These are self extracting diskettes, as you run each one it will prompt you to insert a 3.5" floppy for each a/b/c... it will create diskette 1/2/3

Self-extracting diskette image processor (DOS), Version 1.03
Copyright 1995, Sydex, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

This file was created on Jun 26, 1998  17:25:28



Please enter a drive letter compatible with a 1.44M 3.5" disk,
or press ESC to quit:

If you dont have a floppy drive for the 760, you can use Virtual Floppy Drive to create image files, then using the same program mount the images to copy the install files to a folder on your hard disk. (when copying the last disk, mwdsp430.inf is a different date, but the same file, can be overwritten or not)

I have created a hard disk version of the driver (including the IBM license acceptance to keep it legal), it extracts to c:\drivers\mwave by default, just run setup.exe from inside... 3.78MB: http://conradshome.com/thinkpad/driver/mwave2.25.exe (Jotti.org scan of above file)

Posted: **Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:11 am**

I've installed the new drivers for sound and modem, and it works (except still timeout).

During the the installation i've set the modem speed at 28.6. I had choice betwen 33.6 and 28.6. I wonder if 33.6 is not a better solution? Is it possible to change it without having to reinstall the drivers? The modem is thinkpad 33.6 data....

As soon as possible i will transmit the results of telnet test.

Posted: **Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:03 pm**

Whe i run telnet i see an animation of starwars involving different personages, robots.......

I've listened to it during 3 or 4 minutes and closed the window. I think the author is jansen.

Posted: **Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:38 pm**

Ok, if after your connection "fails" you can still see the star wars movie via telnet... then you are still connected and your connection has not failed. Sounds like 98's network layer is messed up. I would try a "fix" install of 98... running setup and telling it to install over the current windows, then applying the 98 patches after.

Posted: **Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:57 am**

1) I have reinstalled the tcp/ip protocole following the instructions i have found on the web. Nothing has changed.

2) I have many times reinstalled windows 98 from the existing files, by running setup or install.I have read on the web that if there is a mistake in the files, the mistake will still be there doing this.

3) I got a new version of windows98; when i run setup.exe i receive the following message:.....cannot find suhelper.bin....... I don't know if there is another way to install it. Suhelper.bin appears in the win98 set of files.

Posted: **Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:24 pm**

1) I have finally reinstalled a new version of windows 99 and the result is the same.
2) Wich patches should i install? Ther are a lot on the web.

Posted: **Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:57 am**

ozzymud wrote: Have you installed MS DUN 1.4? the Dial-up Networking upgrade? If not, you need that, it fixes several issues. Do you have the lasted modem drivers from IBM? Again, if not, get those. As far as not having the Windows 98 CD, open My Computer, right click the hard disk and choose "Find...", in the box that comes up, place *.cab into the "Named:" box and hit enter, if it finds a bunch named win98_xx.cab, then you have the CD on the hard disk, might wanna back that up and make a boot diskette (with the right tools you can make a bootable 98 CD even).

For Windows 98SE the best thing is to get the "Unofficial Windows 98 SE Service Pack 2.1a", but the creator states you need 32MB ram minimum. It has ALL MS patches/fixes + other enhancements.

Covered that LONG ago

As to the ones you "NEED"... MSDUN 1.4 at minimum... you can look through the list for SP2.1a and see which ones apply to networking... but keep in mind your 24MB might cause issues with adding a lot of upgrades (upgrades usually mean more resources consumed)

Thinkpads Forum

intermittent modem

intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem (tiny pics)

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem

Re: intermittent modem