Thinkpads Forum

Not be pickey but i can see where lenovo gets there inspiration for it's wonderful X1 Carbon
X1 Carbon 2012
http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/upl ... ero_06.jpg
Vaio X505
http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2004/ ... 505-i1.gif

I don't care where the inspiration came from, but I'm looking forward to the first reviews, the first X1 model was disappointing.

Well the difference is that lenovo designed their product with usability and functionality in mind.

Seems more like a Macbook Air to me

QWERTY Andreas wrote:Seems more like a Macbook Air to me

Same here. I don't really see any resemblance between the X1 Carbon and the Sony, but it does reminds me a lot of the Macbook Air (and so does every ultrabook). But then, there is only so many ways you can make a ultra thin laptop.

Same here. I don't really see any resemblance between the X1 Carbon and the Sony, but it does reminds me a lot of the Macbook Air (and so does every ultrabook). But then, there is only so many ways you can make a ultra thin laptop.[/quote]
How does it look more like a macbook air. The X1 carbon is made from black carbon fiber like the sony, has a trackpoint device like the sony, and has matte display. But at the end of the day they both look like laptops to me. Of course the Sony was made in 2004 and with specs and features from there so it will look different from a lot that is on the market.

I'd give you the carbon fiber like the Sony - but the trackpoint is all Thinkpad. I wouldn't say anyone has a claim on a matte display.

elitistlinuxuser wrote:Same here. I don't really see any resemblance between the X1 Carbon and the Sony, but it does reminds me a lot of the Macbook Air (and so does every ultrabook). But then, there is only so many ways you can make a ultra thin laptop.

How does it look more like a macbook air. The X1 carbon is made from black carbon fiber like the sony, has a trackpoint device like the sony, and has matte display. But at the end of the day they both look like laptops to me. Of course the Sony was made in 2004 and with specs and features from there so it will look different from a lot that is on the market.[/quote]

Shape, island style keyboard, back lit, etc. Its basically a black MacBook air with track point.

The Sony may also made out of carbon fiber like the X1 carbon, but it looks nothing like the Sony. Maybe except that they both have a keyboard and a display. Put the 3 together no one would say the Sony looks like the other two.

The lead designer of the X1 Carbon explicitly cites the MacBook Air as an important influence:

http://blog.lenovo.com/design/developer ... ial-design

khtse wrote:Shape, island style keyboard, back lit, etc. Its basically a black MacBook air with track point.

The Sony may also made out of carbon fiber like the X1 carbon, but it looks nothing like the Sony. Maybe except that they both have a keyboard and a display. Put the 3 together no one would say the Sony looks like the other two.

The Sony X505 (which I own -- see my signature) was the first laptop in the world to have an island style keyboard. So, we can say that all laptops with this kind of keyboard were inspired by the X505. And the X505 doesn't have enough room for a touchpad, so all it has is a trackpoint.

It's a thin subnotebook.

You know what it looks like? All the other thin subnotebooks, only with ThinkPad styling. Just like the MacBook Air looks like a subnotebook with Ive styling and the Sony X505 looks like a subnotebook with Viao styling.

I've been VERY happy with the 11" MacBook Air. So much so, that I replaced my 2010 model (passed down to an employee) with a maxed-out 2011 model. That one will soon go to my daughter when I get the new 2012 11" with 8GB RAM and 500 GB SSD. THAT is about as close to ultraportable computing Nirvana as possible these days.

Glad you're happy with your MacBook Air, but I switched to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon from a MacBook Air and I've never been happier. My ThinkPad runs the Windows 8 RTM, and it beats Mountain Lion by a mile. Apple stopped innovating at 10.6. I beta tested Mountain Lion last winter and I was appalled that the only real "innovations" were gimmicks to sell more iPhones. You are not a customer to Apple - you are a cash machine to them. They just want to hit the right buttons to get you to keep spending. Apple stopped being a computer company when they discovered that the bulk of their profits come from a pretty phone using year old technology that their fanboys will keep buying. Microsoft has been bold and innovative with Windows 8, and the ThinkPad X1 is amazing hardware. I am much happier being free of the Apple cult.

Art Vandelay wrote:Glad you're happy with your MacBook Air, but I switched to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon from a MacBook Air and I've never been happier. My ThinkPad runs the Windows 8 RTM, and it beats Mountain Lion by a mile. Apple stopped innovating at 10.6. I beta tested Mountain Lion last winter and I was appalled that the only real "innovations" were gimmicks to sell more iPhones. You are not a customer to Apple - you are a cash machine to them. They just want to hit the right buttons to get you to keep spending. Apple stopped being a computer company when they discovered that the bulk of their profits come from a pretty phone using year old technology that their fanboys will keep buying. Microsoft has been bold and innovative with Windows 8, and the ThinkPad X1 is amazing hardware. I am much happier being free of the Apple cult.

My business uses a CRM package that is Mac-only, so Windows is not an option as my entire office runs Mac. That said, I do like Windows 7, but am not a fan of Windows 8, at least having to go through Metro to get to the classic start menu.

As for iPhones, you may think it is fashion, but I think of it as stability. I used Blackberry for years, tried and hated Android, and am delighted with iPhone. I don't buy it because it is pretty and I am definitely not a fanboy, I just like technology that requires the minimum amount of fuss. Playing with settings and customizing to me is a waste of time, I just want to turn it on and have it do what I expect it to with a minimum of fuss. Apple is tops in that regard these days. When something else is better I will look into moving.

I was an Apple user back in the early 90s, and moved to Windows in 1999 (Win2K was first version good enough for prime time). I moved back to Apple in 2008. I have no platform loyalty and only brand-loyalty to premium hardware. I like Dell for servers, but would never even consider one of their laptops. I've been happy with ThinkPads for many years (still have one for military use), but consider current Apple hardware to be of better build quality and to provide a far smoother, more integrated experience. Its more expensive, but I'm at the point in my life where reducing annoyance is worth spending more money. My only recent Apple hardware issue (battery on 2010 MacBook Air was flakey) was fixed right there while I waited at the Apple store. That is the way it should be.

The X1 Carbon looks very nice and I hope you enjoy it, but I don't appreciate being insulted or thought of as blindly following some cult just because I choose Apple for my business computing needs. It was simply a matter of choosing the system that would require the least amount of my time playing IT department instead of trial lawyer. My business, 6 employees, is big enough to need integrated, networked computing tools, but too small to justify an IT person. Every minute I'm forced to spend doing IT tasks is a minute that I am not practicing law, which is the reason my business exists. Apple's system simply takes a lot less of my time.

asiafish wrote:I just like technology that requires the minimum amount of fuss. Playing with settings and customizing to me is a waste of time, I just want to turn it on and have it do what I expect it to with a minimum of fuss. Apple is tops in that regard these days.

That is true, as long as you don't expect it to do something Apple did not expect you to want to do. At that point it becomes just as, if not more difficult than with the competition. From experience.

asiafish wrote:I like Dell for servers, but would never even consider one of their laptops.

How come? I have had 7 Dell laptops (4 Inspirons 2 Latitudes 1 Precision) and all but two of them were/are as good as the Thinkpads. My current Latitude, an E4200, weighs less than your MBA, has a larger screen, a better keyboard, is nearly as solid, and cost me much less than how much your MBA cost you.

P.S. In case you are wondering which Dells I didn't like, they were the Inspiron 8200 and the Inspiron 600m. Both were stunningly weak, and far from pretty as well.

dr_st wrote:That is true, as long as you don't expect it to do something Apple did not expect you to want to do. At that point it becomes just as, if not more difficult than with the competition. From experience.

Like what? I use my iPhone to get email (Exchange server), browse the web when I'm out and about, sync to my CRM application (DayLite 4, Mac-only, has iOS client but none for Android, Windows Phone or BlackBerry) and play an occasional game. I would imagine that the same people who don't want to fuss with customization of a phone are the people who don't want to make it do anything too esoteric that would cause problems with Apple's system.

pianowizard wrote:How come? I have had 7 Dell laptops (4 Inspirons 2 Latitudes 1 Precision) and all but two of them were/are as good as the Thinkpads. My current Latitude, an E4200, weighs less than your MBA, has a larger screen, a better keyboard, is nearly as solid, and cost me much less than how much your MBA cost you.

P.S. In case you are wondering which Dells I didn't like, they were the Inspiron 8200 and the Inspiron 600m. Both were stunningly weak, and far from pretty as well.

Call it personal experience. When I was in law school (2000-2004) I saw all of these big Inspirons that by year two were shedding parts. In the army they issue us Dell Latitudes (not sure the model, Core i7 so fairly new) and they are built well-enough but are extremely heavy

Does the E4200 REALLY weigh significantly less than 2.3 lbs of my MacBook Air? I also happen to like Apple's keyboards, not as much as ThinkPad keyboards, but once used to them they are very fast and comfortable. I don't really care about cost so long as its not TOO excessive. I am happy to pay $2000 for a laptop if the quality is there, and with Apple the quality is there.

Finally, my office is standardized on OS X. I used to allow both platforms before I adopted the Mac-only CRM package DayLite. Moving to DayLite had the side benefit of cutting my IT time WAYYYYYY down when I got rid of Windows.

We're not going to have an OS war here, so all of you - knock it off now.

asiafish wrote:Call it personal experience. When I was in law school (2000-2004) I saw all of these big Inspirons that by year two were shedding parts.

8 out of 10 Inspirons are sheer junk, both today and 10 years ago. I bet some of those you saw back in 2000 - 2004 was the Inspiron 8200, which, as I said in my last post, was garbage. I held on to it for longer than any other laptops I've owned though, just because it was my first laptop and so it had sentimental value. The Inspiron line has an occasion gem, like the 700m that I absolutely adored, but I would never buy an Inspiron that I am not familiar with or haven't done extensive research on, because there's an 80% chance it would disappoint.

asiafish wrote:In the army they issue us Dell Latitudes (not sure the model, Core i7 so fairly new) and they are built well-enough but are extremely heavy

Unlike the Inspirons, the Latitudes have been mostly pretty good since 2008 or so (except for those plagued by defective Nvidia chips). Yes, some are heavy but some are light. My Latitude E4200 is lighter than any Thinkpad or Apple laptop ever made. I don't like the current Latitudes because they look awful, but that's for another discussion.

asiafish wrote:Does the E4200 REALLY weigh significantly less than 2.3 lbs of my MacBook Air?

Mine is 2.23 lbs although the lightest configuration (which has a lid without the WWAN attachments that mine has) should be 2.20 lbs. Your MBA is 2.38 lbs and thus 0.15 lbs heavier than mine. Not a huge difference, but noticeable, and it's ironic because your MBA has a smaller screen and a non-removal battery and fewer ports than the E4200. The MBA does feel sturdier and the screen is a tad nicer, but then again my E4200 cost me only $250.

asiafish wrote:I also happen to like Apple's keyboards, not as much as ThinkPad keyboards, but once used to them they are very fast and comfortable.

The E4200's keyboard is solid and responsive, and is much easier to type on than the X32 Thinkpad that I currently have. In fact, I would say it's right up there with the best Thinkpad keyboards I have used. And it doesn't get shiny like most Thinkpad keyboards either. Except for the low screen resolution of 1280x800, the E4200 is quite likely the best ultraportable business-class laptop ever. If I replace the screen with the 1440x900 panel of the X200s/X201s Thinkpads, I would drop the "quite likely" phrase in a heart beat.

I have to say, I really like the E4200 + E4300 as well. I'm not a big fan of the keycaps, but the rest of the keyboard feel is about as good as a scissor-switch can get, and I *really* dig the looks of the non-colored ones. It's one of the few non-ThinkPads on my short list of used laptops to recommend to people.