Thinkpads Forum

Hello everyone


I recently posted a response in another topic concerning the quality of the display on the new Thinkpad X1 Carbon, but I thought I'd move it to a seperate topic to get some more inputs. I apologize for sort of double-posting and re-using some of my previous post in this one.

The thing is, I hear a lot of people praising the quality of the X1C display. I recieved my X1 Carbon last week, and although I think it's a really sweet, high-end machine, I find the screen only barely accaptable. The nice resolution aside, this is a TN panel with so-and-so viewing angles and color reproduction. But the most abysmal thing is the high dot pitch - I find it that you can clearly see the black space between the pixels with the naked eye.

I simply can't understand why Lenovo went to all the trouble of designing one of the nicest laptops ever made and then put a very mediocre screen into it - Isn't that like making a Ferrari and then putting cheap tires on it? Why not a nice ISP panel? I don't get it. Are my expectations just to high and this TN panel in reality fine?

What do you think of the X1C display?

Just to be clear: I'm not trying to troll the X1C or anything. I bought one myself and I think it's a nice machine. I'm just trying to get some opinions from other users.

Cheers.


/Mads

That is unfortunate to hear about the screen. I was REALLY hoping that Lenovo would release something worthy of replacing my T60p (well, T61p Frankenpad), and I was feeling sure that the X1C wat exactly that, but a so-so LCD is a real deal breaker. So, despite the fact that the i7 CPU option in the X1C has 3X the computing power, and the integrated HD 4000 graphics have 3-4x the performance of the nVidia GPU in mine...it looks like the wait will continue. It sucks since the X1C seems virtually perfect in every other sense.

I, too, am mystified as to why Lenovo seems to be offering diddly-squat for high quality screens in their laptops. It looks like the only models with IPS displays as options are the X230 and the W530. The former would be good in my book, except that 1366x768 is barely usable for me, and the latter is just too darn big & heavy. I am certain that they put a lot of effort into market research, and they would probably offer IPS screen options on more models if they thought that people would go for it. So, it would seem that they, like every other company, are marketing to the lowest common denominator. That group of consumers/customers is obviously unwilling to pay more for a higher quality display either because they don't care, or as I suspect, are totally unaware of how awesome a laptop screen can look.

Friends/coworkers/family have commented many times on how good the T60p's screen looks, and I can't say that I have used another laptop that really compares. Some MacBooks come close, but the glossy finish makes me want to vomit lol.

I have an X1 Carbon and a T430s. The X1 Carbon's display is better. Brighter and sharper, and comparable in my opinion to the MacBook Air that it replaced. It is, however, a TN display (although a good one) and not IPS. For the money Lenovo is charging, it should be IPS. The X230 is nice, but the low res on the IPS display made it a no-go for me. I like my X1 but Lenovo did cheap out on the display a bit. Hopefully subsequent revisions (X2?) will include at least an option for a hi res IPS screen.

The X1 Carbon's display is better. Brighter and sharper, and comparable in my opinion to the MacBook Air that it replaced.

I agree that it is bright and sharp enough to match the Macbook Air, but the high dot pitch (the black space between the pixels) is clearly visible, which it is not on the Macbook Air. Frankly, I think that this high dot pitch makes the X1C display seem cheap, even though it is fairly easy to ignore. That it is not an ISP-panel aside, how hard can it be to make a TN display where you can't actually physically see the space between the pixels?

MADAB wrote:the high dot pitch (the black space between the pixels) is clearly visible

Based on what I have read, not all X1 Carbons have this issue. I believe Lenovo is getting panels for the X1 Carbon from at least two different sources. If you luck out, you get a good panel, but looks like you aren't lucky. Call Lenovo and try to convince them to send you a replacement.

I have the same 'issue' on my screen but still prefer the 1600x900 resoltion vs a 1366x768 ips screen.

pianowizard wrote:I believe Lenovo is getting panels for the X1 Carbon from at least two different sources.

That was my theory too just based on the fact the X1C I had looked very nice with a decent sized sweet spot and good color if a bit blue, but I've seen other less flattering reviews, which made me scratch my head. I think MacBook Air like, but matte, is an apt description of the screen.

pianowizard wrote:Based on what I have read, not all X1 Carbons have this issue.

I don't think so, it depends on how sensitive particular owner to the issue is. The reason is pretty simple, 1600x900 is too low resolution for 14" display that you can see individual pixels. X31 has the same issue.

ZaZ wrote: and good color if a bit blue.

I solved this by calibrating the display (using a spyder4)

bmwman91 wrote:It looks like the only models with IPS displays as options are the X230 and the W530.

I don't think that the W530 is available with IPS panel. If it were, Lenovo would probably inform accordingly, loud and clear

The frame around the screen on my X1 Carbon has these "gabs" at the bottom part of where the screen and frame meet, like if the frame is not properly "fastned" to the display. Any one else notice this on their X1C? And can anyone offer an explanation for this? The rest of the frame is solid around the screen, just not the bottom. Is this on purpose or is it just cheap assembly line work?

Cheers!

MADAB wrote:The frame around the screen on my X1 Carbon has these "gabs" at the bottom part of where the screen and frame meet, like if the frame is not properly "fastned" to the display. Any one else notice this on their X1C?

I have the same issue with my X220 frame.

I have the same issue with my X220 frame.

Question is: Is it an issue? Does it make the laptop more fragile or is it suppose to be there to secure flexibility? Do you think of it as a problem?

Cheers!

MADAB wrote:The frame around the screen on my X1 Carbon has these "gabs" at the bottom part of where the screen and frame meet.

Discovered the same issue yesterday, on the bottom left it's a bit thicker. (behind the lenovo logo)
I can look into the screen and see some wires.

Looks like another onsite repair next week. (the keyboard is already replaced for a key with a bit more resistance)

Is this page lying about the X1 Carbon screen being IPS?

http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/lapto ... /x-series/

Has a big ol' check next to the X1 Carbon and the X230

"HD Display With IPS Technology"

Anyone?

Looks like I'll be in the market for a new dev machine, and I'll probably use the screen this time (as opposed to my W520 that has maybe a dozen hours on the good-for-TN-FHD-but-still-crap screen)

-Dan

plympton wrote:Is this page lying about the X1 Carbon screen being IPS?

http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/lapto ... /x-series/

Has a big ol' check next to the X1 Carbon and the X230

I don't see what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure though, that there is no IPS on the carbon model. A shame really, and a surprising omission given the target market.

plympton wrote:Is this page lying about the X1 Carbon screen being IPS?

http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/lapto ... /x-series/

Has a big ol' check next to the X1 Carbon and the X230

"HD Display With IPS Technology"

"HD" means 1366x768, so this statement obviously refers to the 1366x768 IPS screen of the X230. The X1 Carbon has 1600x900, which is HD+. I don't think it's a lie, but just a mistake. It doesn't make sense Lenovo would intentionally lie about the X1 Carbon having 1366x768 resolution.

pianowizard wrote:I don't think it's a lie, but just a mistake.

I hope so. On the other hand in the beginning most of shops (over here) had IPS in the spec as well and corrected it lately when first reviews clearly stated it is TN panel.

I had a chance to handle some X1 Carbons this afternoon at a product fair. Great machines, incredibly light and thin. Sadly, the screen is not even a deal breaker for me...it is a deal KILLER. Compared to the flexview display in my frankenpad, the X1C has much better brightness, but bad "screen door" effects, inferior contrast and lousy viewing angles. This disappoints me, greatly. It was a LITTLE better than the T430s screen next to it. Neither could compare at all to the X230 on the table though. The X230 had an IPS screen and the colors were much deeper, the pixel density appeared higher (no "screen door") even though it is about the same in the specs, and viewing angles were fantastic.

So, I won't be getting an X1C unless there is an IPS display option someday. The X320 is actually a faster machine since it does not use a ULV processor, which boosts CPU and integrated GPU performance. Although I generally hate 1366x768 screens, the one in the X230 was so good that I think I could overlook the low resolution. The X1C, sadly, has such a lousy screen that I don't care how good the rest of it is. I am not wild about the new keyboards, compared ot the old ones, but Thinkpads still have some of the best ones.

The other machine that caught my eye was the ASUS UX31A. It has a 1920x1080 IPS glossy screen and it is about the same size as the X1C. GREAT screen. Unfortunately, the keyboard sort of sucks and there is no track-pointer, and the touch pad has poor response. I have read that ASUS actually makes the X1C for Lenovo...this would not surprise me at all if it was true given how similar the machines are.

Here's a review I found that compares the X1C (TN), T430s (TN) and X220 (IPS) screens. Seems to be pretty representative of the difference that I saw, minus the "screen door" effect. There are lots of pictures there.
http://www.laptopreviews.com/thinkpad-x ... ds-2012-08

I think it sucks. This laptop would be perfect if it had an IPS display. Real shame.

puma wrote:I think it sucks. This laptop would be perfect if it had an IPS display. Real shame.

Indeed, it would be perfect if it also had - apart from an IPS screen - all of the following:

a) A proper, user-replaceable (CRU) 7-row ThinkPad keyboard

b) User upgradeable (CRU) RAM

c) User replaceable (CRU) battery

With all of the above missing, it's just another failed "Mac killer"...

ajkula66 wrote:Indeed, it would be perfect if it also had - apart from an IPS screen - all of the following:

a) A proper, user-replaceable (CRU) 7-row ThinkPad keyboard

b) User upgradeable (CRU) RAM

c) User replaceable (CRU) battery

With all of the above missing, it's just another failed "Mac killer"...

Right on. I am thinking of pulling the trigger on a loaded X230 (w/ 4GB RAM that I can upgrade to 16GB for $80 on Newegg)...IF someone can figure out how to hack the BIOS to work properly with the X220 keyboard. This "island style" keyboard is poop. I tried it out on some demo machines, and while it is probably the best chiclet keyboard out there, it still sucks compared to the old Thinkpad keyboards. Gross!

bmwman91 wrote: I am thinking of pulling the trigger on a loaded X230 (w/ 4GB RAM that I can upgrade to 16GB for $80 on Newegg)...IF someone can figure out how to hack the BIOS to work properly with the X220 keyboard. This "island style" keyboard is poop. I tried it out on some demo machines, and while it is probably the best chiclet keyboard out there, it still sucks compared to the old Thinkpad keyboards. Gross!

Until someone gets Middleton out of retirement and persuades him to do this hack, I'd suggest buying a X220 instead...the last one with a *proper* keyboard...

So a member on a car forum I frequent is a senior field sales guy for Lenovo. I gave some feedback on the direction that Lenovo is going with their Thinkpad line. It is doubtful that it will go anywhere useful, but who knows. I didn't have the heart to tell him that the screen on the X1C was just plain poor since he was really excited about the model, though! It is a shame...there are a number of laptops on the market with hardware specs that interest me, but literally NONE that are executed in a way that is attractive to me. The X220 is the last one that captures my interest since it has a "good" keyboard and an IPS screen, although it is a little small for my liking and 1366x768 isn't too amazing (whine, whine, whine). At this point, I see myself with my Frankenpad for a long, long time. The ONLY downside to it is the relatively low screen brightness, but I never use it outside anyway, and it doesn't strain my eyes!

bmwman91 wrote: At this point, I see myself with my Frankenpad for a long, long time. The ONLY downside to it is the relatively low screen brightness, but I never use it outside anyway, and it doesn't strain my eyes!

Screen brightness is best addressed with a LED-lit AFFS UXGA panel, see my (heavily modded) T43p here:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=107072

Wow. This is VERY disappointing.

I've been a Thinkpad user since my first 380ED, and have briefly have gone to Apple for the Macbook Pro based on LCD quality alone. I purchased an X200S back in 2009 and promptly returned it due to the excessive eye strain. Thinkpads had gotten progressively better, until Lenovo took over and brightness was emphasized over contrast.

The 13" MBP, while still a TN panel, provides contrast ratios that make viewing easy on the eyes. Viewing angles are also very good. I don't even want AFFS/IPS, I'd be happy with a decent TN! I was hoping this would be my return to Thinkpads, but I'm sorely disappointed.

I hear you. It really saddens me that Lenovo only offers ONE lattop with a decent screen right now, and it is tiny / low resolution. They are really turning the Thinkpad line into consumer toys. I think that their switch to chiclet keyboards really is a sign that they are done making functional business machines, and that they want to capture the interest of people that care more about what the laptop looks and how much it costs like than how well it works.

I too have been tempted by Macbooks solely because of the displays. I believe that many of them come standard with IPS screens. The glossy covers are sort of a no-no, but they do look NICE. Alas, I HATE the keyboards on them, and I would miss the Trackpoint mouse. I don't think that I could handle being seen in public with a Macbook either, and that's saying a lot since I am generally the last person to care what anyone thinks of me.

At this point, I would buy an Asus UX31 or UX51 since it is the same size as the X1C, but has a 1920x1080 IPS screen in it. The touch pad mouse was a little sluggish, but drivers could fix that. I'd put up with it just because of the screen.

bmwman91 wrote:I hear you. It really saddens me that Lenovo only offers ONE lattop with a decent screen right now, and it is tiny / low resolution. They are really turning the Thinkpad line into consumer toys. I think that their switch to chiclet keyboards really is a sign that they are done making functional business machines, and that they want to capture the interest of people that care more about what the laptop looks and how much it costs like than how well it works.

I too have been tempted by Macbooks solely because of the displays. I believe that many of them come standard with IPS screens. The glossy covers are sort of a no-no, but they do look NICE. Alas, I HATE the keyboards on them, and I would miss the Trackpoint mouse. I don't think that I could handle being seen in public with a Macbook either, and that's saying a lot since I am generally the last person to care what anyone thinks of me.

At this point, I would buy an Asus UX31 or UX51 since it is the same size as the X1C, but has a 1920x1080 IPS screen in it. The touch pad mouse was a little sluggish, but drivers could fix that. I'd put up with it just because of the screen.

Same here, it actually pisses me off when I am using the laptop. It's such a nice machine, so sleek, then you look at the screen and it's just horrible. I might sell it, and get an ASUS.

All this moaning about the X1C's screen gets a bit out of control. If one is sitting on a train or aircraft the last thing one wants is for the passenger in the next seat to be able to see what is on the screen ... unless you are an exhibitionist.

For me it makes sense to have privacy. Am I alone?