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Classic theme on Windows 8

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windows.nt.win32
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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#361 Post by windows.nt.win32 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:45 pm

Porting the classic theme from Windows 7 would be impossible and pointless. Like I said before, the classic theme itself works fine, it's just that a lot of Windows 8/10 features aren't designed to work with it, which is why there are currently so many bugs.

Disabling the ribbon should give you the option to show a menu bar. If you don't see it, click on 'Organize' > 'Layout' > 'Menu Bar' on the explorer command bar.

Also Splitwirez, YOU GOT THE TASKBAR TO WORK IN WINDOWS 10!? How did you manage that? Or was it at complete random that this happened? If there's a chance that the default Windows 10 taskbar could work at all with the classic theme, honestly that's huge news. Now I want to try and get it to work again.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#362 Post by bugmn » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:23 am

windows.nt.win32 wrote:Porting e classic theme from Windows 7 would be impossible and pointless. Like I said before, the classic theme itself works fine, it's just that a lot of Windows 8/10 features aren't designed to work with it, which is why there are currently so many bugs.

Disabling the ribbon should give you the option to show a menu bar. If you don't see it, click on 'Organize' > 'Layout' > 'Menu Bar' on the explorer command bar.

Also Splitwirez, YOU GOT THE TASKBAR TO WORK IN WINDOWS 10!? How did you manage that? Or was it at complete random that this happened? If there's a chance that the default Windows 10 taskbar could work at all with the classic theme, honestly that's huge news. Now I want to try and get it to work again.
Ok, I got you, thanks. I was thinking it wouldnt work because some of the menu's are broken. Plus the fact that what we have now works, it just needs some fine tuning.

I dont seem to have 'organize' on my folders. Do I have to disable the ribbon first to get organize?
My folders look like this: http://winaero.com/blog/wp-content/uplo ... 00x450.png

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#363 Post by Powerplayer » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:14 am

bugmn wrote: Ok, I got you, thanks. I was thinking it wouldnt work because some of the menu's are broken. Plus the fact that what we have now works, it just needs some fine tuning.
Guys windows 10 Service pack called th2 is out now and ready for download as trial
http://pastebin.com/cGV3vcnX rtm 10586 esd straight and legally from windows update site use link that i posted and ofcause an iso converter http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?fi ... 5537462896 (rename the esd into install.esd and use decrypt.cmd )

This cr@p took me a while to do but its interesting becuse the immersivemenu fix does nothing now so maybe theres something in the mui files that listens in for the reg to make rightclick menus work. Ah well what ibmpad fixed has again been broken by microsoft .
Fine tuning indeed is what we need.

Edit: On another note we could need some help from the windows gurus at reactos maybe they can make a plugin to fix menus and taskbar in order to get the os more usable?

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#364 Post by windows.nt.win32 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:47 am

Yeah, you'll need to disable the ribbon UI to get the Organize button, bugmn.

Interesting news, Powerplayer. I really hope we can find a fix for the immersive context menus then. Otherwise, I certainly won't be updating to the new service pack for a while. Although, that's easier said than done given the way Windows 10 does updates. :/

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#365 Post by Powerplayer » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:14 am

windows.nt.win32 wrote:Yeah, you'll need to disable the ribbon UI to get the Organize button, bugmn.

Interesting news, Powerplayer. I really hope we can find a fix for the immersive context menus then. Otherwise, I certainly won't be updating to the new service pack for a while. Although, that's easier said than done given the way Windows 10 does updates. :/
The new servicepack is less buggy too and the windows 8.1 black loginscreen reg works fine opposed to the release version that the ms low-wage indians probably based off of 8.0 after a lot of tweaking and deleting of cr@ppy cortana and windows defender restore and backup stuff it gets faster to use and feels more stable then the first release that feels like a beta

This 8.1 reg tweak i used now works on 10586rtm TH2 but not on TH1 which hints that they finally upgraded from 8.1 because the previous version seems built over 8.0

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Personalization]
"NoLockScreen"=dword:00000001
"PersonalColors_Accent"="#00b8ff
"PersonalColors_Background"="#000000"

i dont regret updating Th1 loved to login-brick itself if not removing the right buggy files this version just works!.
Anyway i posted a message to the reactos windows gurus asking them to help us add taskbar and rightclick menu plugins to classictheme if somebody knows what reactos parts to add to it its all them.
We could even ask Ivo to commit some classicshell code as plugin to classictheme

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#366 Post by Splitwirez » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:21 am

windows.nt.win32 wrote:YOU GOT THE TASKBAR TO WORK IN WINDOWS 10!? How did you manage that? Or was it at complete random that this happened? If there's a chance that the default Windows 10 taskbar could work at all with the classic theme, honestly that's huge news. Now I want to try and get it to work again.
Well, sort of. It often "works", but when it does, it doesn't "work work". E.g. it's there, but basically it crashes as soon as you try to actually do anything >.<

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#367 Post by Splitwirez » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:22 pm

Internet Explorer concept (because it's still necessary):
Image
Trimmed it down so it'd be small enough to post. The transparent area would contain the webpage, obviously.
Note to moderators/admins/whoever: I read the rules, and they said nothing against double-posting to add information to a thread. If I missed that, I'm sorry, will allow this post to be disposed of as needed, and will try to figure out why I'm so bad at reading forum rules.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#368 Post by windows.nt.win32 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:42 pm

That's looking good, Splitwirez. Although the title bar still says 'My Pictures' lol
Also, thanks for clarifying about the taskbar.

So Powerplayer, how are you getting around without the right-click context menus working in Threshold 2?

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#369 Post by Splitwirez » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:47 pm

windows.nt.win32 wrote:That's looking good, Splitwirez. Although the title bar still says 'My Pictures' lol
Also, thanks for clarifying about the taskbar.
:3

(Dangit, I knew I'd forget something >.< )

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#370 Post by windows.nt.win32 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:42 am

I found this interesting:
http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows-10- ... -microsoft

That's probably the reason right-click context menus won't load their old versions in Threshold 2. Now I wonder if there's a way to bypass that...

Also if it helps, I have a little tidbit of information regarding context menus. Using a bit of trickery with a program called 'GlovePIE', I was actually able to inspect an explorer context menu using Zero Dump. I noticed that both the vista/7 style menus (that are compatible with the classic theme) and the new Windows 10 'immersive' context menus still share the same window ID, which is '#32768'. So wouldn't that mean that Windows is skinning over the aero context menu skin, which is skinning over the classic context menus? Unless Windows just doesn't apply the Aero skin on immersive context menus. Anyway, this might be obvious information, I don't know. But at least we know that all context menus are, at the core of their code, the same. So maybe there is hope for getting every context menu to work with the classic theme yet! I'm going to dig around in some DLL files to see if I can find anything.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#371 Post by Splitwirez » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:44 am

windows.nt.win32 wrote:I found this interesting:
http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows-10- ... -microsoft

That's probably the reason right-click context menus won't load their old versions in Threshold 2. Now I wonder if there's a way to bypass that...

Also if it helps, I have a little tidbit of information regarding context menus. Using a bit of trickery with a program called 'GlovePIE', I was actually able to inspect an explorer context menu using Zero Dump. I noticed that both the vista/7 style menus (that are compatible with the classic theme) and the new Windows 10 'immersive' context menus still share the same window ID, which is '#32768'. So wouldn't that mean that Windows is skinning over the aero context menu skin, which is skinning over the classic context menus? Unless Windows just doesn't apply the Aero skin on immersive context menus. Anyway, this might be obvious information, I don't know. But at least we know that all context menus are, at the core of their code, the same. So maybe there is hope for getting every context menu to work with the classic theme yet! I'm going to dig around in some DLL files to see if I can find anything.
Yay, there is hope! C:

Also, I was reading the comments on that article, and noticed (above all else) one guy who was losing his mind over the fact that it wasn't 10nghorn. That reminded me of an idea I had a while ago: What if the classic titlebars could have Aero Glass in the gradient region? [emd] :OD [/emd]

Also hold on a sec, I'm working on an illustration of my point...

EDIT: Case and pineapple:
Image

Also, I packed up a TrueTransparency setup to showcase the idea in action on your computer: DOWNLOAD
(Just a rough concept, the title bar text and icons are a bit screwy, and it may not be particularly usable - it is TrueTransparency, after all...)

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#372 Post by Anixx » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:50 am

You can elongate the buttons without any additional software, it is stored in

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop\WindowMetrics

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#373 Post by Splitwirez » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:14 am

Anixx wrote:You can elongate the buttons without any additional software, it is stored in

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop\WindowMetrics
Yes, I know. But that elongates all of them. I wanted only the close button to be wider, and optionally so, at that.

Also that's not a means to add Aero Glass to the title bar gradient ._.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#374 Post by Powerplayer » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:36 pm

windows.nt.win32 wrote:That's looking good, Splitwirez. Although the title bar still says 'My Pictures' lol
Also, thanks for clarifying about the taskbar.

So Powerplayer, how are you getting around without the right-click context menus working in Threshold 2?
i have to use the regular crappy ms theme they forced on us i wait for plugins to Ibmpads classictheme service that can enable taskbar
Speaking of taskbar in Th1 it loads but taskbar has no icons for sound wifi etc , in th2 these icons appear but ros explorer crashes shortly after
So ibmpad could technically pick up the code that enables taskbar in ros explorer and tweak it to work on classictheme and put some text on those textless menus with other similar tweaks
I just enabled my regular tweaks like no organize bar and throboff along with my superreg that configures the dekstop plus classicshell for startmenu , deleted cortana and all kindsa adware long ago.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#375 Post by Splitwirez » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:16 pm

Powerplayer wrote:So ibmpad could technically pick up the code that enables taskbar in ros explorer and tweak it to work on classictheme and put some text on those textless menus with other similar tweaks
...what

*sigh*

No, ibmpad couldn't just "tweak it to work on classictheme". That's a hell of a lot more than a tweak. That's more like taking a structure made of wood and saying "let's just tweak it so it's made of steel and water."

As for the context menus, well...they have text, it just doesn't display properly (or at all) with the Classic Theme.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#376 Post by kensiko » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:20 am

Is there a way to "enable classic theme now" and disable it afterward without rebooting?

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#377 Post by windows.nt.win32 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:02 pm

kensiko wrote:Is there a way to "enable classic theme now" and disable it afterward without rebooting?
Only way I can think of is to log off and log back in again. There might be another way, but I don't know of it right now (maybe by somehow re-opening the ThemeSection handle). Shame, it'd be nice to be able to switch between the classic theme and visual styles on the fly like the old days.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#378 Post by kensiko » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:26 pm

Sure, the idea would be to launch specific applications in classic mode but without destroying everything else in Windows.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#379 Post by windows.nt.win32 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:56 pm

Not sure how that could work, unless you were to open the ThemeSection handle, open the application, and then close the handle again. It would be nice for Windows 10's 'immersive' control panel, but that's assuming it's even possible to re-open it whenever we want.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#380 Post by bugmn » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:41 pm

Splitwirez wrote:
Powerplayer wrote:So ibmpad could technically pick up the code that enables taskbar in ros explorer and tweak it to work on classictheme and put some text on those textless menus with other similar tweaks
...what

*sigh*

No, ibmpad couldn't just "tweak it to work on classictheme". That's a hell of a lot more than a tweak. That's more like taking a structure made of wood and saying "let's just tweak it so it's made of steel and water."

As for the context menus, well...they have text, it just doesn't display properly (or at all) with the Classic Theme.
Hey, don't be so hard on the guy. He was just trying to help with his idea. I thought it was ok.

Actually, it's more like the saying 'if it's made, there is always a way to create it.' Investigating the behavior in one program might prove useful for another program. I'm not too sure if this 'ros explorer' even works like he says it does though.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#381 Post by Powerplayer » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:51 pm

bugmn wrote: Actually, it's more like the saying 'if it's made, there is always a way to create it.' Investigating the behavior in one program might prove useful for another program. I'm not too sure if this 'ros explorer' even works like he says it does though.
Nobody is taking my posts about sihost.exe seriously , make the explorer.exe's thirst for sihost.exe point to classictheme with the hermetic wood to metal philosophers stone or a simple script .
My tests about sihost.exe in th2 are even more interesting as the error about cortana no longer appears cause i removed cortana and the fake startmenu files from a live installation what we get is a black taskbar with no function not even classicshell works so either make a new sihost.exe or make classictheme satisfy explorer.exe's call for the a la india low-wage programmer patchwork that ms did. Also why not add the no navigation bar ahk script and rightclick option to unselect it like xp did
Last edited by Powerplayer on Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#382 Post by windows.nt.win32 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:50 am

Powerplayer, did you try using the dummy DWM.exe in place of sihost.exe?

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#383 Post by Powerplayer » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:05 am

windows.nt.win32 wrote:Powerplayer, did you try using the dummy DWM.exe in place of sihost.exe?

No i did not what happens with dummy dwm renamed to sihost.exe?
It opens and closes itself shortly after from what i know but thats for desktop composition.

Edit now i did a try with the dummy boot of taskbar took longer but works ok its not sihost thats the problem then we have to resort to the obvious
explorer.exe resource changes so we need unsigned GUI that loads to fully fix this or similar things that classicshell does with startbutton for it to bethere and its own context menus but under classictheme.
Meaning we build our own contextmenus

Anybody tried fix context menus with these http://sourceforge.net/projects/renameit/
or https://www.maketecheasier.com/5-free-t ... n-windows/

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#384 Post by windows.nt.win32 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:01 pm

Powerplayer wrote:Anybody tried fix context menus with these http://sourceforge.net/projects/renameit/
or https://www.maketecheasier.com/5-free-t ... n-windows/
How would one fix the context menus with those? I have RenameIt installed already, but I don't really get what that has to do with the context menus. Could you please explain? And the other programs are for editing context menu items. And that's the problem, context menu items aren't showing up at all.

Anyways, regarding using a new shell. We've talked about updating the NT 4.0 shell before, and making a Classic Shell hybrid with that. And while I do still think that would be our best place to start development from (once we're able), there are a few issues I see with it:
1.) The Windows NT 4.0 shell is ancient. It's interface is the exact same as Windows 95, and that lacks quite a lot of modern Windows features. It's not as customizable as Windows XP's shell, and updating it to be that customizable would be a lot of work. Even if we were to merge it with Classic Shell, it would still take a lot to get it to work closer to a UI similar to Windows 98/2000/XP (and even Longhorn if we do decide to make that an option).
2.) As far as I can tell, the NT4 shell does not support shell extensions. Now I could be wrong on this, but I can't seem to find any support for them. This would be a major issue for making a Classic Shell hybrid with it.
3.) Even if we did manage to hybrid it with Classic Shell, there are still a lot of features that we would need to implement from scratch because Classic Shell doesn't support them. Features such as the address bar, image thumbnails/thumbnail view and a shell UI DLL file such as browseui.dll or ExplorerFrame.dll, which contain much of modern Explorer's interface.
4.) Microsoft doesn't seem to be ok with people building upon their code. This is honestly the biggest concern I have with this. If you think that they don't care because the code is so old and developing it would be too much work to compete with Windows, Microsoft has actually removed the NT4 source code from GitHub and a few other sites as recently as April 2015. The last thing I want is to get into legal trouble with Microsoft. Even if we were to distribute it as freeware (which we would, of course), I'm pretty sure that's still against Microsoft's EULA, and they're not ok with that.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying no to using the NT4 source code. I just think there's a lot we should consider before we jump into it. The only other open-source alternative I can think of would be the ReactOS explorer, but honestly that seems like getting that to be a fully-functional shell for Windows would be more trouble than its worth. And even if we did use whatever code we choose to start from, we really still need to learn how to program, and that in and of itself is going to take quite a while. And good luck finding a dev who's willing to do all this for free unless they want all this as much as we do, and have enough time to contribute to something like this.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#385 Post by Powerplayer » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:54 am

windows.nt.win32 wrote: 4.) Microsoft doesn't seem to be ok with people building upon their code. This is honestly the biggest concern I have with this. If you think that they don't care because the code is so old and developing it would be too much work to compete with Windows, Microsoft has actually removed the NT4 source code from GitHub and a few other sites as recently as April 2015. The last thing I want is to get into legal trouble with Microsoft. Even if we were to distribute it as freeware (which we would, of course), I'm pretty sure that's still against Microsoft's EULA, and they're not ok with that.
technically it would be better to get somebody who can build something that mimics nt4s classic theme and include classicshell NATIVE (not as BHO but as explorer) add reference to the adressbar so that we can enable that on menubar (small classicshell buttons + enable adressbar the same way we get it in taskbar) so we get a classic menu with classicshell buttons and adressbar that can be turned on/off by users choice .
Also i advocate the use of PNG files as icons (easier to make themes if loaded externally)

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#386 Post by windows.nt.win32 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:44 am

Why is it easier to make themes with PNG files as icons? You ever use IcoFX 1.6? In case you haven't, it's probably the best free icon editor out there, and it's actually pretty easy to use. And it does a wonderful job at converting PNG images to ICO. Windows generally uses ICO files for ListViews anyway, so why not just use what's already available to us? I dunno, I just don't really see the purpose of using PNG images as icons (unless it's on a toolbar or something).

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#387 Post by bugmn » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:18 pm

windows.nt.win32 wrote:Why is it easier to make themes with PNG files as icons? You ever use IcoFX 1.6? In case you haven't, it's probably the best free icon editor out there, and it's actually pretty easy to use. And it does a wonderful job at converting PNG images to ICO. Windows generally uses ICO files for ListViews anyway, so why not just use what's already available to us? I dunno, I just don't really see the purpose of using PNG images as icons (unless it's on a toolbar or something).
Because icons only support 32x32 64x64 etc up to 256x256. Sure, you can have custom size images within the icons, but they still take up more space than necessary. Such as a 56x10 image in a 64x64 icon. You want it to just take up the 56x10 space , but it takes up the entire 64x64 space. Thats the only reason that I can think of, unless Im wrong. PNG images would be useful especially on a toolbar.

I think a useful feature would be to overlay icons on top of each other, so that the transparent space between icons could be removed by overlaying them. Then the extra transparent space might not matter.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#388 Post by Powerplayer » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:40 pm

bugmn wrote:
windows.nt.win32 wrote:Why is it easier to make themes with PNG files as icons? You ever use IcoFX 1.6? In case you haven't, it's probably the best free icon editor out there, and it's actually pretty easy to use. And it does a wonderful job at converting PNG images to ICO. Windows generally uses ICO files for ListViews anyway, so why not just use what's already available to us? I dunno, I just don't really see the purpose of using PNG images as icons (unless it's on a toolbar or something).
Because icons only support 32x32 64x64 etc up to 256x256. Sure, you can have custom size images within the icons, but they still take up more space than necessary. Such as a 56x10 image in a 64x64 icon. You want it to just take up the 56x10 space , but it takes up the entire 64x64 space. Thats the only reason that I can think of, unless Im wrong. PNG images would be useful especially on a toolbar.

I think a useful feature would be to overlay icons on top of each other, so that the transparent space between icons could be removed by overlaying them. Then the extra transparent space might not matter.
Exactly using png would make small explorer.exe shell32.dll and we do not need any 40 gb iconpacked bloat just put a zip with the themes in the theme folder and load in classicshell .
that way we could mimic anything the bloat would be possible to delete easily and we would not need to convert pngs in icon editors .
Png just set to no background in Photoshop and it will not be there when icon is selected .
If we make a shell we can add our own address bar to menubar because it already exist on taskbar just add as reasource and make selectable and movable .
So build from the ground up seems like a good idea we finally get rid of activex and the overactive desktop introduced in win98 ( so we can run win10 on older machines without performance loss ) :D

Which probably means we also need a new controlpanel with pngs (because it has icons=)which is a darn good idea since ms want to metrofy everything and remove it .

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#389 Post by windows.nt.win32 » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:32 pm

Like I said, ICO files already support custom resolutions. And they're really flexible with sizes up to 256x256px. Here's proof:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/bqcpw ... -56x10.ico

I would highly recommend you guys check out IcoFX 1.6. It makes converting image files to ICO really easy in whatever resolution you want.

And if you're worried about bloat or whatever, you can always make an ICO file with just one size.

Also keep in mind that if we were to create a new shell, we could make it handle ICO resolutions however we want anyway.

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Re: Classic theme on Windows 8

#390 Post by Splitwirez » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:38 pm

Um...windows.nt.win32? Did you see this:
Splitwirez wrote:Also, I was reading the comments on that article, and noticed (above all else) one guy who was losing his mind over the fact that it wasn't 10nghorn. That reminded me of an idea I had a while ago: What if the classic titlebars could have Aero Glass in the gradient region? [emd] :OD [/emd]

Image

Also, I packed up a TrueTransparency setup to showcase the idea in action on your computer: DOWNLOAD
(Just a rough concept, the title bar text and icons are a bit screwy, and it may not be particularly usable - it is TrueTransparency, after all...)
?

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