T570: M2 NVMe + additional 2,5" SATAIII?

T430 - T470 and T530 - T570 series specific matters only
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hirnsaege
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T570: M2 NVMe + additional 2,5" SATAIII?

#1 Post by hirnsaege » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:26 pm

So i'm considering to buy a Thinkpad T570 ... (or a T470 or P51s), highend configurations (NVMe SSD and hiDPI screen).

From what i get from reviews (correct me if I'm wrong):
– this has an NVMe SSD installed, that has the 2280 form factor and sits in an adapter of the 2,5" drive bay and is connected via PCIe with two lanes.
– In this bay, i could also put in a 2,5" drive there (that is SATAIII only then due to drives limitations).
– there is an additional M.2 slot, where i could add another SSD, but only with small form factor 2242. I am not sure if there are PCIe lanes attached to this, or if this slot is SATAIII only (mixed information).

From my old notebook i still have a Samsung 850 Evo 1TB. If possible, i'd like to re-use the Evo drive as a second drive.

Questions are:
– I guess adding the old 2,5" SSD is not possible without dropping the original drive completely as this does not fit in the second M.2 slot? (this is no option of course)
– If i added a *new* second drive to the M.2 slot, would that always be connected with SATAIII only, so be limited to 500MB/sec, or is there more to achieve?
– are there any differences in this regards between T470, T570, P51s (or T470p, which is a remote option).

thanks for your help
Tom

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Re: T570: M2 NVMe + additional 2,5" SATAIII?

#2 Post by Pascal_TTH » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:25 am

If you want to use your old 1 TB SSD, you have to order a T570 with a SATA 2,5" storage like the default HDD. It will be limited to SATA III. The second M.2 slot is for the 4G module. It can handle a short SSD M.2 2242 in SATA mode. This way, everything will be limited to SATA III so 500 MB/s. I don't know it the same connector handles SATA and NVMe (some kind of universal connector) or if the laptop have a different connector according to the SSD/HDD.

P51s and T570 are just the same laptops (only de dGPU is different).

PS : I got a Thinkpad E470 with a SATA III 500 GB Samsung Evo SSD and a T570 with the NVMe 256 GB, the have the same boot speed. I also have a desktop with two NVMe Samsung 960 Pro, in most case, it is not faster than my last year desktop with SATA III SSD. So in most case, NVMe did not bring much speed up. Going from SATA SSD to NVMe SSD is really not as impressive as changing from HDD to SSD. Looks like access time do all the difference, not the MB/s.
T570 : Core i5 7200U, GeForce 940MX, 16 GB, 256 GB NVMe, FHD IPS
T560 : Core i5 6200U, GeForce 940MX, 16 GB, 256 GB NVMe, FHD IPS
E470 : Core i7 7500U, GeForce 940MX, 32 GB, 500 GB SATA, FHD IPS

Retired : T61p, T60p, T61,R61, T41p, T40p, X31, A31p, A30, X24, A21p, A20p

w0qj
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Re: T570: M2 NVMe + additional 2,5" SATAIII?

#3 Post by w0qj » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:43 pm

Pascal_TTH is right, you need to check (or even phone Lenovo/Thinkpad sales hotline) to confirm this:
"If you want to use your old 1 TB SSD, you have to order a T570 with a SATA 2,5" storage like the default HDD. "

~Thinkpad sometimes has a habit of providing *only* the storage interface you ordered your SSD with.
~ie: You may need to purchase (expensive OEM) adapters to change your SSD format.

===============
Confirm that T570 has 2.5" drive slot, with adapter for NVMe SSD for some models:
(It has a nice photo of the insides of T570 too):

www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T ... 184.0.html
"The primary slot has the 2.5-inch form factor and is attached via PCIe x2. You can either use corresponding 2.5-inch drives (up to 7 mm high) or NVMe modules via an adapter. The WWAN slot (M.2-2242) can also be used for a SATA-III SSD or Intel's new Optane storage."

===============
We second Pascal_TTH's opinion that HDD>>SSD is a BIG difference, but a SATA3_SSD>>M.2_SSD is only a smaller incremental difference by comparison.

We have T410 computer which upgraded from HDD to Samsung 850 Pro 500 GB (this SATA SSD has 10-year-warranty),
and the difference in speed is huge.

Compared to our X1 Carbon Gen 3 had same memory & spec but faster CPU and PCIe SSD, our X1C3 was somewhat faster, but the difference is not nearly as big. Noticeable difference, yes. BIG difference? No.

0. Don't care about budget approach: Just buy the biggest sized NVMe SSD you can afford for your T570 ;)

1a. Budget approach: We recommend you consider only storage space available to you (and how much future storage you need).

1b. If your NVMe SSD is same size as your SATA SSD (1TB), then by all means keep using your NVMe SSD!
Just use your SATA SSD as an external data backup drive.

1c. If your T570 NVMe SSD capacity is smaller than that of your Samsung 850 Evo 1 TB, then use your Samsung 850 Evo 1 TB in your T570 (need to go through the hassle of Product Recovery reinstallation).
Slight SSD speed penalty, but lots more storage space.

Option (1c) would be our recommendation if budget concerns are a priority.


Have fun deciding ;)
Daily Driver: X1 Carbon 4th Gen (X1C4): i7-6600U 2.6GHz; 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz; 1TB PCIe-NVMe SSD; 14" WQHD 2560x1440; LTE EM7455 Mobile Broadband; Win7 Pro 64bit
Current Thinkpads: X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

hirnsaege
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Location: Innsbruck, Austria

Re: T570: M2 NVMe + additional 2,5" SATAIII?

#4 Post by hirnsaege » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:17 pm

sorry for never responding to this anymore, it actually was a good help to decide ...

As budget finally was not really the limiting factor (company approving the budget, me choosing), i went for the NVMe 1GB drive in a P51s, because why not ...
(P51s over T570 actually was just because i got that one slightly cheaper than a T570 with the same configuration besides the dGPU)

And i am using the Samsung EVO 1GB as a backup drive in a USB3 enclosure as part of my backup strategy. which appears to be overkill at first, but it's just a huge comfort to mirror the whole drive over to the external SSD at rates well above 250MB/sec ... i was used to USB2 speeds to backup, and the longer this takes, the less often it's done ... now it takes me less than an hour to do a full backup, or really really fast to do an incremental update - so this is a thing not to be postponed anymore as it would take too long.

It's also good to know (any my impression is just the same now) that the step from SATA-SSD to NVMe-SSD is not a huge one. It's helping now and then, but it's no revelation compared to HDD>SSD. This again makes me happy as i can upgrade some more (SATA speed) storate into the WWAN-slot later if i'm running out of space.

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Re: T570: M2 NVMe + additional 2,5" SATAIII?

#5 Post by Pascal_TTH » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:01 am

Hi hirnsaege,
Nice for you that your company did not care too much about pricing and let you choose the finest laptop. P51s is often cheaper than T570 when you start to add some options. It's not overkill to use 1TB SSD as external backup. As you said, it's very confortable. I use to do it from some time and I totaly agree.
Now even wireless is now very fast with AC revision. My T570 connect to the Asus AC88U at about 900 Mbps and it can upload or download ISO from the server at 85 MB/s. It's also very conforable.

I really enjoy my T570 !
T570 : Core i5 7200U, GeForce 940MX, 16 GB, 256 GB NVMe, FHD IPS
T560 : Core i5 6200U, GeForce 940MX, 16 GB, 256 GB NVMe, FHD IPS
E470 : Core i7 7500U, GeForce 940MX, 32 GB, 500 GB SATA, FHD IPS

Retired : T61p, T60p, T61,R61, T41p, T40p, X31, A31p, A30, X24, A21p, A20p

w0qj
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Re: T570: M2 NVMe + additional 2,5" SATAIII?

#6 Post by w0qj » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:36 am

Wow, congrads on your P51s;
now we feel jealous ;)

By the way, there is another Forum for your top-end model ThinkPads:

ThinkPad W530 and later Series [Which includes the "P-series"]:
viewforum.php?f=70

Do feel free to share your hands-on use with us!
Daily Driver: X1 Carbon 4th Gen (X1C4): i7-6600U 2.6GHz; 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz; 1TB PCIe-NVMe SSD; 14" WQHD 2560x1440; LTE EM7455 Mobile Broadband; Win7 Pro 64bit
Current Thinkpads: X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

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