Thinkpads Forum

I'm having a hard time deciding between these two machines. As a long time user of Thinkpads I really appreciate the:
- best-in-class keyboards (very important factor, still use the legendary T60 NMB series)
- solid build quality
- trackpoint

But the MBP w/ Retina has some very appealing features:
- it's light & thin (I'm commuting)
- much better screen
- it has 16:10 ratio

How does the T530 keyboard compare to MacBook's one? I'm aware both will be worse than the beloved NMB.

How'd you compare the 1920 x 1080 screen with those in MBP Retina? I'd love to stay on 16:10 ratio instead of going to 16:9 - heck, I'd be prepared to switch to Apple just because of this I'll be using it for writing, programming & office duties. Occasional photo & video editing as well, but no gaming.

Thoughts & tips much appreciated.

corvette wrote:How does the T530 keyboard compare to MacBook's one? I'm aware both will be worse than the beloved NMB.

The key mechanism in the T530 keyboard is the same as in previous ThinkPads, i.e. the best the market has to offer. From what i've heard, MacBookPro keyboards are rather underwhelming. For me, the way they've crippled the enter key on European MacBookPro keyboard layouts would be an sure deal breaker.

I've never had a T530 in my hands, but from this forum, my impression has been that people have been very happy with the quality of the FHD screens on recent 15.6" ThinkPads. The FHD screens seem to be the best screens with regard to viewing angles on 15.6" ThinkPads. The FHD screens in the T530 seem to have the same properties as the screens in T520 modes; 270 nits brightness and 500:1 contrast ratio.

As to weight: if you travel with AC adapter, with ThinkPads, you have flexibility by choosing graphics option and processor. Choosing processor integrated graphics and a dual core model makes it possible to use a 65W adapter, which weighs a mere 260 grams.

Happy to see you back, corvette, it's been a while...

Your dilemma - in my opinion - begs for the following question: are you able to utilize OSX as the only operating system?

My understanding - which may be incorrect - is that Windows will not play nice with native resolution of Retina MBP.

As much as I positively hate the new layout, *30 series keyboard is vastly superior to Mac's.

On the other hand, although I'd never buy it myself, the screen quality of MBP panel leaves the T530 in the dust.

All of that said, my pick would be something along the lines of a high-end Dell with an IPS screen or HP with DreamColor rather than any of these two, but your money - your call.

I believe someone was running the MBP-R at the native resolution over on NBR, but who can read at that resolution? It's a gimmick in my opinion.

ajkula66 wrote:All of that said, my pick would be something along the lines of a high-end Dell with an IPS screen or HP with DreamColor rather than any of these two, but your money - your call.

While the DreamColor displays in the HP Elitebook Mobile Workstations probably are gorgeous, one should also keep the weight of these notebooks in mind. They weigh from 3.1 kg / 6.94 lb with the optical drive, and the 150 W AC adapter adds another 0.73 kg / 1.61 lb.

corvette wrote:I'm having a hard time deciding between these two machines. As a long time user of Thinkpads I really appreciate the:
- best-in-class keyboards (very important factor, still use the legendary T6x NMB in R500 series)

Seems to me there are really only two factors to consider. The first one is whether the MBP Retina's keyboard is good enough for you. It's definitely not the best in class, but it may still be good enough. So, the next thing to do is to go to a local computer store and type on a MBP Retina for an extended period. Not for just a few minutes, but for as long as possible, like two hours. Many people judge an unfamiliar keyboard after only several minutes (sometimes even seconds!) of use and that's a mistake. I learned this firsthand recently after replacing my main desktop's keyboard with Logitech's illuminated keyboard. At first its short-travel keys and protruding bottom row felt very strange and hard to use, and I regretted the purchase greatly especially since it's quite expensive. But after several days, I fell in love with it. Now I regard it as the best keyboard I have ever used. My typing speed is faster than ever, and this keyboard causes less strain than all other desktop keyboards I have used.

The other factor is, as mentioned earlier, whether you can switch to Mac OS. Running Windows once in a while on a Mac is tolerable, but using it as the primary OS is not fun.

All the other factors you mentioned strongly favor the MBP. Build quality is actually not that different between the Thinkpad and the MBP. However, MBP's do age worse than Thinkpads because things like dents and scratches look more obvious on a lightly colored chassis than on an all-black one.

TTY wrote:While the DreamColor displays in the HP Elitebook Mobile Workstations probably are gorgeous, one should also keep the weight of these notebooks in mind. They weigh from 3.1 kg / 6.94 lb with the optical drive, and the 150 W AC adapter adds another 0.73 kg / 1.61 lb.

That's why in my whole life I have bought only one HP laptop, the nc2400. It was a great, highly portable laptop (2.8 lbs without the optical drive), but most other HP Business laptops are too heavy. I understand that HP wants to make their business-class laptops tank-like, but this is too much.

Some very good suggestions here, thank you all. I have a chance to try the MBP Retina for a day. Will check, maybe the keyboard doesn't suck compared to blue-springed NMB.

Switching from Thinkpad to Mac will be an issue though, mainly due to OS and occasional Windows needs (not more than a few times a month). I hope the Forklift will be a decent substitute to Total CMD.

There's also one *very* tempting option, the X1 Carbon... Paired with external monitor, the 1600 x 900 could be enough, but the larger screen size on T530 or MPB is a big plus.

George, thanks, it's been a while - also cos' the machine is running smooth without issues I've checked the HP's and Dell's as well, but they seem to be more bulky?

I was tempted by the Retina MBP as well, but keep in mind you can buy 2-1/2 T530s for the price of one MBP.

The MBP isn't that good.

Quick update with the MBP Retina:
- the screen is mind blowing. Nothing I owned is even close. The resolution, brightness, smooth content... just wow.
- handling and carrying it is quite enjoyable. It's significantly lighter than R500, twice as thing and without creaks
- the MBP keyboard is IMHO only slighthly worse than old T60 NMB, I got used to it quickly (though I prefer the Thinkpad one)
- there are a few OSX glitches requiring different workflow and more typing and more shortcuts ...
- ... but after a few days, things get back to normal. Though I'll need Wine or Crossover for some utilities.

OTOH, upgraded the R500 with SSD and W7 64 bit. Didn't know this puppy can run that fast! On some instances it's actually faster than MBP (referring to everyday office tasks, not raw power).

For now, I'm glad I went with Macbook. It's a new experience. Although there're some glitches and cons compared to PC, the screen really is that good and my eyes really appreciate this after long days in the office.

Remember to get a good warranty on it.

Many people have problem with the diplay "burning in"...

best regards