Thinkpads Forum

I love my X220 but after 4 years it's time to upgrade and keep this in the office as backup.
Is T450/T450s a good replacement for X220? I don't want to stay with 12.5" I need to get a larger screen but 15 is too big so 14.1 would be great.

Are the new T450 or 450s compatible with the Ultra Dock that I am currently using with X220?

I suppose that depends on your goal. I'd say the T450s would be closer the X220, being that it's only slightly heavier, if that's what you're looking to get. Plus, the FHD LCD on the T450s is IPS, better than anything you get on the T450. The T450s is unlikely to match the X220 in battery life, but if it's mostly docked, that won't matter much. I don't know anything about the docks, but my guess would be no, based on past experience. Perhaps someone more learned than I will be along.

ZaZ wrote:I suppose that depends on your goal. I'd say the T450s would be closer the X220, being that it's only slightly heavier, if that's what you're looking to get. Plus, the FHD LCD on the T450s is IPS, better than anything you get on the T450. The T450s is unlikely to match the X220 in battery life, but if it's mostly docked, that won't matter much. I don't know anything about the docks, but my guess would be no, based on past experience. Perhaps someone more learned than I will be along.

Thanks, so is that the main difference between T450 and 450s? I couldn't compare them side by side.
If anyone has T450s, can you post a picture of the docking port?

The T450 and X220 have a different docking port, and the dock stations are not compatible.

I am not familiar with anything called "Ultra Dock" that works with the X220. Better double-check that model name.

dr_st wrote:The T450 and X220 have a different docking port, and the dock stations are not compatible.

I am not familiar with anything called "Ultra Dock" that works with the X220. Better double-check that model name.

Hi, I apologize, it is Mini Dock Series 3. This is what I have, but I checked the compatible dock for T450 is ThinkPad Ultra Dock.
Sorry to see that reviews for Ultra Dock is pretty bad. I just wanted to upgrade my X220 without hassle, but I think I'll just look into fixing it instead of replacing it. One of my sales guys just bought Carbon X1 and there is always some issue with it, compared to my X220 which has been solid for 4 years.

Hello,

I've just bought a T450s to replace my X220, which I've given away to a family member. I use my laptops as glorified typewriters, nothing more (I'm a translator, not a computer expert).

The newer laptop is a bit bigger than the X220 but not by much; the weight is also about equal. The T450s' keyboard is, for my modest purposes, better than the old one.

The T450s' IPS, FHD, non-touch screen, while really very nice, is a little bit too dense for my declining eyesight. Consequently I've bought a second-hand X230, since I like its IPS screen and screen resolution. I'm still hesitating between the two laptops.

You will have to buy a new docking station, the Ultrabase will not work.

a) The T450s with a discrete Nvidia graphics card is "non-dockable". You will need this (maybe not this one precisely, but something very resembling): http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetail ... 39642CFC27. I've tested one, and found it not very practical (cables all over the place).

b) The docking station for the Intel-only graphics T450s is "ThinkPad Pro Dock with 65W AC Adaptor (0B47270)", it works as a plain docking station.

So, to answer your question, in my opinion the T450s will replace the X220 very well - provided you like the FHD resolution.

ellipse wrote:is a little bit too dense for my declining eyesight

Bump the DPI up to 125%. It makes it like a HD+ LCD and mostly works well in my experience.

There is no good replacement for X220. Apart from broken keyboard layout all current Lenovo notebooks have issues. Just browse official Lenovo forum https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500- ... -p/tp01_en

Good joke. And the X220 was problem free?

People come to these forums to complain...so its not wonder you will actually find many people there to complain about something^^

Ibthink wrote:Good joke. And the X220 was problem free?

I don't recall a single ThinkPad that was "problem free". 600 series was likely closest to that goal post.

People come to these forums to complain...so its not wonder you will actually find many people there to complain about something^^

True.

With that said, it seems that QC has been declining steadily for a number of years now when it comes to ThinkPads...

If one *must* replace a X220 with another Thinkpad these days, I'll agree that T450s is likely the best pick of the litter.

Ibthink wrote:Good joke. And the X220 was problem free?

Nope, of course. But number and severity of .40/.50/Carbon series issues are on a completely different (unexpected) level.

Really? X220 issues:
- Ghosting and light bleed with IPS Display
- "White spot" problem on early badges
- Fan speed too high / throttling with early BIOS versions
- Display Bezel separation problem
- Small dots on the displaybezel pierce into the palmrest, correlating with the weak palmrest around the expresscard slot, causing breaking palmrest (this is a long term design problem)
- CPU whine on some models
- EEPROM problem causing system-board defects
- More chassis problems (for example, frequent problem: Breaking off of the little plastic top part of the display-assembly)

No ThinkPad is problem free. But saying T440s or T450s has more issues than X220 just isn´t true. I would say current ThinkPads have less design problems than the Tx20 line....now, what did get worse in my observation since the last couple of years is the manufacturing - more often than before units are not properly assembled. But thats not only a Lenovo problem....and most units are fine. Early badges have more problems than later ones (for example, early T440s badges had problems with the display bezel...but that was solved after a few months).

TrackPoint middle button scroll is awful on new T450s http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=117920
T450s cpu whine https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500- ... -p/2070850

That's it? Two issues, one of which is ridiculously minor / applicable to most Thinkpads in the last decade?

Well, so far it looks like Ibthink is winning.

Puppy wrote:TrackPoint middle button scroll is awful on new T450s

I would hardly say one experience makes a trend.

It is just information, use it or forget. I can't say who has won but I am almost sure who has lost ...

Horizontal ghosting on brand new T450s LG Full HD Screen https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500- ... -p/2066856

I have this problem as well 10 days old and I just noticed it. It needs special conditions. The way I reproduce it is with dark Visual Studio and open windows explorer about 1/4 of the way from either vertical edge of the screen and the lines go right across. There are many and they kind of jitter and it is progressively getting worse

It is getting more sophisticated to check the issue.

Puppy wrote:It is getting more sophisticated to check the issue.

If it's so hard to notice the issue, then it probably isn't a significant issue!

pianowizard wrote:If it's so hard to notice the issue, then it probably isn't a significant issue!

It is not easy to check but it is very noticeable, see the pictures. And just another couple of dead T450s after BIOS update https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500- ... -p/2094787 This seems to be Lenovo 'standard' behavior of *50 series because there are similar reports for X250. Fortunately there is a fix, just wait several hours till the second internal battery discharges. Still so few insignificant issues ?

Puppy wrote:Fortunately there is a fix, just wait several hours till the second internal battery discharges.

Ever heard about the "Emergency reset hole"? In most cases, you don't need to wait "several hours"....

Hi everyone, Thanks for all the posts (a few scary ones). I had my fair share of problems with X220, like USB port breaking off in 1st month, throttling, buzzing, fan running at high speed, palmrest cracking (twice), service tech who replaced my board forgetting to connect speakers, keyboard with a gap under it, screen dying on year 3 (might have been an impact but never a drop), camera, bluetooth and microphone issues, and a few others that were too minor to remember. So if T450s is anything like X220, I think I will be fine, honestly the only reason I want to go with T450 is because of the screen size, I don't want a 15" but I can't do 12.5" anymore as much as I loved the size and my 9cell battery (felt like forever battery life)

I am OK with FHD, as long as it's not UHD. Also it will be definitely an SSD.

My only concern is the reduced quality and scary reviews of the new docking station, while my current dock had 0 problems, and has good reviews on Lenovo and Amazon, the new dock has terrible reviews. I really don't want to give up my dock because I have a full house in terms of occupied ports, from HDD's to dual screens to keyboard, mouse, printers, etc.. I cannot do the discrete dock either, not enough ports, and from experience with my coworker's X1C 2nd Gen, it's not very reliable.

Do you have the new dock, and is it really that bad?

Now, this is probably not the best place to ask, but what's the competition for T450s? Does Dell and HP still do docking stations? What would be the comparable line? I OK with dell too..

hyde wrote: Do you have the new dock, and is it really that bad?

What to you mean by "bad"? I use one to connect to a 27 inch Dell, it works allright.

Regarding competition, I like the Dell 7440 we've been issued with at work. The trackpoint is a bit stiffer but the keyboard is very pleasant.

ellipse wrote:Hello,

I've just bought a T450s to replace my X220, which I've given away to a family member. I use my laptops as glorified typewriters, nothing more (I'm a translator, not a computer expert).

The newer laptop is a bit bigger than the X220 but not by much; the weight is also about equal. The T450s' keyboard is, for my modest purposes, better than the old one.

The T450s' IPS, FHD, non-touch screen, while really very nice, is a little bit too dense for my declining eyesight. Consequently I've bought a second-hand X230, since I like its IPS screen and screen resolution. I'm still hesitating between the two laptops.

You will have to buy a new docking station, the Ultrabase will not work.

a) The T450s with a discrete Nvidia graphics card is "non-dockable". You will need this (maybe not this one precisely, but something very resembling): http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetail ... 39642CFC27. I've tested one, and found it not very practical (cables all over the place).

b) The docking station for the Intel-only graphics T450s is "ThinkPad Pro Dock with 65W AC Adaptor (0B47270)", it works as a plain docking station.

So, to answer your question, in my opinion the T450s will replace the X220 very well - provided you like the FHD resolution.

Thank you so much for the detailed info, this is very useful.
I think you may have made a mistake with 0B47270, this is a tablet docking keyboard.

No, I definitely wouldn't go with discrete graphics if that cancels the docking port under the laptop.

While it's not essential for me, I might enjoy touch screen on my laptop. I did not see this in the configuration when ordering T450s. Where do you pick touch screen?

ellipse wrote:

hyde wrote: Do you have the new dock, and is it really that bad?

What to you mean by "bad"? I use one to connect to a 27 inch Dell, it works allright.

Regarding competition, I like the Dell 7440 we've been issued with at work. The trackpoint is a bit stiffer but the keyboard is very pleasant.

The reviews claim there are issues connecting to external devices, or when using dual monitor, USB issues, network issues, etc..
On Lenovo website the ratings are pretty bad too:
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... 39642CFC27

Which exact model dock do you have?
I noticed the new Dell 7000 series too, that reminds me, I don't think I can go back to a keyboard without trackpoint, so that leaves me with only Dell 7000 and Thinkpad, since HP Elite does not seem to have a trackpoint. PS: Only reason I got so attached to trackpoint was the terrible trackpad in x220. I am glad it didn't work properly, I love the trackpoint, it's so useful and convenient coupled with the center button.

hyde wrote:

ellipse wrote: Which exact model dock do you have?

I specifically ordered the non-touch version of the screen, however my laptop was preconfigured, so I can tell you nothing regarding the ordering process on Lenovo's Website (and anyway I am in Switzerland, not in the USA).

Regarding the docking thing, I got this, I think it is the same :

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetail ... 39642CFC27,

but not at that price of course, only 30 dollars or so on the equivalent of Ebay in Switzerland.

I read the bad reviews on Lenovo's site. Immediately after that, I discovered that one of the USB ports on the docking station is indeed behaving a bit capriciously. Also Chrome on my T450s does not like Youtube, whereas Internet Explorer plays videos without complaining.

As you mentioned, and as we all know or at least suspect, a lot of laptops come out with glitches and peculiarities that get ironed out with successive BIOS updates and so on. The T450s is certainly no exception to this "rule", I am not particularly worried.

As it is, the new laptop is a joy to use, the IPS, FHD screen is really good. I followed the advice (thank you) I read a few posts up here and cranked the display up to 125%.

Finally, a new Dell 7440 is very expensive, I think : I'd look into second-hand hardware, like this for instance:
https://www.fr.ricardo.ch/acheter/ordin ... 759515006/

I use only the trackpoint and cannot comment on the trackpad (I disabled it in the BIOS).

On the other hand, the X230 would be equally good in my opinion. The resolution/size ratio is perfect for my eyesight, as I said. It could be a wise choice if you intend to use your existing matériel, ultrabase, power cords etc.

(It's funny how these laptops make one talk on and on...)

ellipse wrote: Regarding the docking thing, I got this, I think it is the same :
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetail ... 39642CFC27,
but not at that price of course, only 30 dollars or so on the equivalent of Ebay in Switzerland.

I read the bad reviews on Lenovo's site. Immediately after that, I discovered that one of the USB ports on the docking station is indeed behaving a bit capriciously.

I thought about the new X2xx but I really can't handle 12.5" anymore, need to go up, size wise and resolution wise.

Do you have any other issues with the dock? Does your monitor flicker? Do you use keyboard/mouse ? Do they randomly disconnect?

Especially since it costs $270 (wow) here, and having been using my old dock for many years, I had no problems, so it would be a big blow if the new one doesn't work well. (considering, docking station is the one of the major reasons I am buying Thinkpad)

Hey,

* Ethernet, external monitor (DP), USB3 : work OK.
* No screen flickering, no disconnection.
* One USB2 port has acted funny once at boot (could not input hardware password with external KB, had to use the laptop's this once).
* Have not been able to "see" a 2nd external monitor (on DVI port): but have not tried very hard, either...
* Chrome error I reported was exactly that, a Chrome error, not laptop's.

hyde wrote:

ellipse wrote: Regarding the docking thing, I got this, I think it is the same :
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetail ... 39642CFC27,
but not at that price of course, only 30 dollars or so on the equivalent of Ebay in Switzerland.

I read the bad reviews on Lenovo's site. Immediately after that, I discovered that one of the USB ports on the docking station is indeed behaving a bit capriciously.

I thought about the new X2xx but I really can't handle 12.5" anymore, need to go up, size wise and resolution wise.

Do you have any other issues with the dock? Does your monitor flicker? Do you use keyboard/mouse ? Do they randomly disconnect?

Especially since it costs $270 (wow) here, and having been using my old dock for many years, I had no problems, so it would be a big blow if the new one doesn't work well. (considering, docking station is the one of the major reasons I am buying Thinkpad)

ellipse wrote:Hey,

* Ethernet, external monitor (DP), USB3 : work OK.
* No screen flickering, no disconnection.
* One USB2 port has acted funny once at boot (could not input hardware password with external KB, had to use the laptop's this once).
* Have not been able to "see" a 2nd external monitor (on DVI port): but have not tried very hard, either...
* Chrome error I reported was exactly that, a Chrome error, not laptop's.

Thanks for the feedback. Does chrome error happen only when docked?
For 2nd external monitor, I have two monitors on mine, both via DVI, it would be a big blow if they don't work with new dock.

No, the Chrome error was related to some files in its cache. No idea about the 2nd monitor, I've read posts saying http://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/commen ... eens_940m/ it works.

Thank you all, I think I'll place my order for T450s.
I assume T450S is better than T450, right? Am I missing anything other than dedicated graphics and touch screen by going with S instead of 450?

Hi, could someone help me please?
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 47#p760547