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I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

T430-T490, T530-T590 Series
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jayeye
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I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#1 Post by jayeye » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:36 pm

What is it with Lenovo? First they change the keyboard technology to be more like the dreck Apple peddles. Now they don't offer any 15'' models without a numeric keypad. My main issue is that the unit stops being a *laptop* and becomes a *thightop*. Typing on a laptop keyboard is already worse than typing on a real keyboard (I'm still using 20-year-old Type M keyboards with a trackpoint on all my workstations), why make it even more annoying by having to choose between having my hands skewed to the left or my screen skewed to the right? How many people really do numeric entry frequently enough that this should be the default?

They already must have a lot of tooling in place to accommodate all sorts of different layouts for different country options. Why is it so hard to have one more without a numeric keypad?
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#2 Post by dr_st » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:39 pm

Yeah, I agree it's strange like that.

On a desktop keyboard, I use the numpad for gaming regularly. However, a laptop keyboard is already mostly unsuitable for gaming as most 3-key combinations jam. Plus, on a desktop keyboard, I can shift the keyboard slightly to one side or the other, depending on whether I'm typing or gaming. On a laptop it's impossible.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#3 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:48 am

Hsve you seen the W700. Now thats a numpad done right.

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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#4 Post by Ibthink » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:34 am

jayeye wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:36 pm
They already must have a lot of tooling in place to accommodate all sorts of different layouts for different country options. Why is it so hard to have one more without a numeric keypad?
Its not that easy. The different language layouts don´t require a different palmrest. If you want to do a keyboard option without numpad, you have to redesign the keyboard area completely, the palmrest design would have to be very different. Which is why they don´t do that.

Its either all units with numpad or all units without a numpad.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#5 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:59 am

For many years I have programmed on a TKL (TenKeyLess) keyboard like this:

Image

Who needs a numpad, other than a bean counter?

You can still get similar, more modern ones, like this
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#6 Post by Dekks » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:09 am

Thinkpads are not consumer kit for that reason they will always have numeric keybads that are standard in accounting. Lenovo have other segments/brands more oriented to the consumer/pro-sumer that don't have the numeric keypad.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#7 Post by jayeye » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:23 pm

Accountants aren't the only ones who use Thinkpads. And accountants use laptops? Don't they have proper desktops? What fraction of the user base do they (ahem) account for anyway?
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#8 Post by jayeye » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:36 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:59 am
For many years I have programmed on a TKL (TenKeyLess) keyboard like this:

Image

Who needs a numpad, other than a bean counter?

You can still get similar, more modern ones, like this
Ah yes. I still have several of those in storage, along with the 5-pin-DIN to 6-pin-miniDIN adaptors :)

The one you linked to doesn't have the buckling-spring keys; who would want it? :)
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#9 Post by TankPad » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:22 pm

Never been much a fan of the numeric keypad myself either. I'd much prefer a classic 7 row layout keyboard (even if they stick with chicklet) and maybe some programmable macro keys.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#10 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:40 pm

What happened to the keys like on the A31. They should comeback a keyboard like that with the 7 buttons on the left. Also, they should be programmable macros. Now THAT would be pretty useful.

Also on a second thought, someone should reprogram every one of the keys on the numpad with one we lost from the 7 row layout. Screw a numpad for dedicated volume, and put a numlock for that one accountant who needs it. Basically the fn lock for the numpad.

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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#11 Post by jayeye » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:33 am

Dekks wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:09 am
Thinkpads are not consumer kit for that reason they will always have numeric keybads that are standard in accounting. Lenovo have other segments/brands more oriented to the consumer/pro-sumer that don't have the numeric keypad.
None with a trackpoint, which is the ONLY reason to buy a Thinkpad, and a 15'' screen. If I didn't need a trackpoint I wouldn't even consider Lenovo.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#12 Post by jayeye » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:34 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:48 am
Hsve you seen the W700. Now thats a numpad done right.

Sent from my SM-G550T using Tapatalk
I don't want a behemoth like the W700. And I don't want a numpad in the first place.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#13 Post by jayeye » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:36 am

Ibthink wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:34 am
jayeye wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:36 pm
They already must have a lot of tooling in place to accommodate all sorts of different layouts for different country options. Why is it so hard to have one more without a numeric keypad?
Its not that easy. The different language layouts don´t require a different palmrest. If you want to do a keyboard option without numpad, you have to redesign the keyboard area completely, the palmrest design would have to be very different. Which is why they don´t do that.

Its either all units with numpad or all units without a numpad.
I don't buy that. They have a zillion lines of nearly-identical machines, and each line requires different tooling. They could kill one of the stupider series of thinkpads and offer a proper keyboard.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#14 Post by Dekks » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:41 am

jayeye wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:36 am
I don't buy that. They have a zillion lines of nearly-identical machines, and each line requires different tooling. They could kill one of the stupider series of thinkpads and offer a proper keyboard.
maybe they just don't see the sales to justify the tooling costs.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#15 Post by Jake.Werecat » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:10 am

Huh! I am completly opposite. I love numpads, find them extremly useful and improving my productivity a lot. I Really find it missing on T530, and found myself here looking for a possible way to fit a T540 keyboard onto T530.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#16 Post by atagunov » Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:58 pm

jayeye wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:36 pm
I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
No you're not. W530, T520, T520, X220, X2100 + X230t/T60/R60 parts. My inventory. No numpads.
Only one non-chicklet keyboard. Wanted to replace that but it's so nice and new and my family loves it.

P.S. there's exactly one key I ever press on numpads - the extra enter key. It's rather easy to find blind..
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#17 Post by theoldhundy » Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:18 pm

Jake.Werecat wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:10 am
Huh! I am completly opposite. I love numpads, find them extremly useful and improving my productivity a lot. I Really find it missing on T530, and found myself here looking for a possible way to fit a T540 keyboard onto T530.
I'm in the same boat. I really liked it when 15" class laptops in general started coming through with them. For my personal machines, it's my only gripe with my T530 machines.

I guess I'm a bean counter. :roll: :D
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#18 Post by TPFanatic » Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:41 am

Man I wish I could go back to 2017. :D

I generally use the number row but in the odd chance I'm operating one-handed a numpad is a great alternative, and the integrated numpad built into every 7 row keyboard fulfills that.

A funny thing is the W700 series has both the 7 row's integrated numpad and the dedicated numpad. A30 series can similarly be equipped with the Ultrabay numpad in addition to the integrated numpad.

Sadly Lenovo decontented the integrated numpad when they switched to the 6 row...

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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#19 Post by dr_st » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:48 am

TPFanatic wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:41 am
I generally use the number row but in the odd chance I'm operating one-handed a numpad is a great alternative, and the integrated numpad built into every 7 row keyboard fulfills that.
Alas, every 7-row keyboard except the Thinkpad 25, it seems. :(
TPFanatic wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:41 am
A30 series can similarly be equipped with the Ultrabay numpad in addition to the integrated numpad.
Funny thing about it, though. It seems like there is no way to use the Ultrabay Numpad as digits (with Numlock On) without it also turning on the integrated numpad (and making letters act as numbers). At least I don't remember ever finding a method. There is a BIOS setting, IIRC, for separately controlling Numlock on an internal keyboard versus external PS/2 keyboard, but the Numpad is USB, and so is not affected by that.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?

#20 Post by thinkquan » Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:28 pm

I use a numeric keypad all the time, and I am not an accountant. IMO, if faced with the choice of accomplishing a function with a single key press or key combination, versus multiple keypresses, or digging through menus, I gravitate towards the single key. When it comes to keyboard layouts, I would rather have a more efficient workflow and a larger keyboard, than a more compact keyboard and increased number of clicks.

In my usage, I'll often make use of the numeric keypad for shortcuts. Another way I use the numeric keypad is as extra thumb keys when using a mouse.

One of the things that pushed me to using an external mechanical keyboard with my Thinkpads is the inclusion of a numeric keypad. The other thing being the switch to the awful (IMO) island style 6 row keyboard.

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