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I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
What is it with Lenovo? First they change the keyboard technology to be more like the dreck Apple peddles. Now they don't offer any 15'' models without a numeric keypad. My main issue is that the unit stops being a *laptop* and becomes a *thightop*. Typing on a laptop keyboard is already worse than typing on a real keyboard (I'm still using 20-year-old Type M keyboards with a trackpoint on all my workstations), why make it even more annoying by having to choose between having my hands skewed to the left or my screen skewed to the right? How many people really do numeric entry frequently enough that this should be the default?
They already must have a lot of tooling in place to accommodate all sorts of different layouts for different country options. Why is it so hard to have one more without a numeric keypad?
They already must have a lot of tooling in place to accommodate all sorts of different layouts for different country options. Why is it so hard to have one more without a numeric keypad?
Lord High Everything Else
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
Yeah, I agree it's strange like that.
On a desktop keyboard, I use the numpad for gaming regularly. However, a laptop keyboard is already mostly unsuitable for gaming as most 3-key combinations jam. Plus, on a desktop keyboard, I can shift the keyboard slightly to one side or the other, depending on whether I'm typing or gaming. On a laptop it's impossible.
On a desktop keyboard, I use the numpad for gaming regularly. However, a laptop keyboard is already mostly unsuitable for gaming as most 3-key combinations jam. Plus, on a desktop keyboard, I can shift the keyboard slightly to one side or the other, depending on whether I'm typing or gaming. On a laptop it's impossible.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
Hsve you seen the W700. Now thats a numpad done right.
Sent from my SM-G550T using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G550T using Tapatalk
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.
The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.
The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
Its not that easy. The different language layouts don´t require a different palmrest. If you want to do a keyboard option without numpad, you have to redesign the keyboard area completely, the palmrest design would have to be very different. Which is why they don´t do that.
Its either all units with numpad or all units without a numpad.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
For many years I have programmed on a TKL (TenKeyLess) keyboard like this:
Who needs a numpad, other than a bean counter?
You can still get similar, more modern ones, like this
Who needs a numpad, other than a bean counter?
You can still get similar, more modern ones, like this
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.
PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine.
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.
PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine.
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
Thinkpads are not consumer kit for that reason they will always have numeric keybads that are standard in accounting. Lenovo have other segments/brands more oriented to the consumer/pro-sumer that don't have the numeric keypad.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
Accountants aren't the only ones who use Thinkpads. And accountants use laptops? Don't they have proper desktops? What fraction of the user base do they (ahem) account for anyway?
Lord High Everything Else
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
Ah yes. I still have several of those in storage, along with the 5-pin-DIN to 6-pin-miniDIN adaptorsRealBlackStuff wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:59 amFor many years I have programmed on a TKL (TenKeyLess) keyboard like this:
Who needs a numpad, other than a bean counter?
You can still get similar, more modern ones, like this
The one you linked to doesn't have the buckling-spring keys; who would want it?
Lord High Everything Else
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
Never been much a fan of the numeric keypad myself either. I'd much prefer a classic 7 row layout keyboard (even if they stick with chicklet) and maybe some programmable macro keys.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
What happened to the keys like on the A31. They should comeback a keyboard like that with the 7 buttons on the left. Also, they should be programmable macros. Now THAT would be pretty useful.
Also on a second thought, someone should reprogram every one of the keys on the numpad with one we lost from the 7 row layout. Screw a numpad for dedicated volume, and put a numlock for that one accountant who needs it. Basically the fn lock for the numpad.
Sent from my SM-G550T using Tapatalk
Also on a second thought, someone should reprogram every one of the keys on the numpad with one we lost from the 7 row layout. Screw a numpad for dedicated volume, and put a numlock for that one accountant who needs it. Basically the fn lock for the numpad.
Sent from my SM-G550T using Tapatalk
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.
The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.
The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
None with a trackpoint, which is the ONLY reason to buy a Thinkpad, and a 15'' screen. If I didn't need a trackpoint I wouldn't even consider Lenovo.
Lord High Everything Else
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
I don't want a behemoth like the W700. And I don't want a numpad in the first place.Thinkpad4by3 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:48 amHsve you seen the W700. Now thats a numpad done right.
Sent from my SM-G550T using Tapatalk
Lord High Everything Else
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
I don't buy that. They have a zillion lines of nearly-identical machines, and each line requires different tooling. They could kill one of the stupider series of thinkpads and offer a proper keyboard.Ibthink wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:34 amIts not that easy. The different language layouts don´t require a different palmrest. If you want to do a keyboard option without numpad, you have to redesign the keyboard area completely, the palmrest design would have to be very different. Which is why they don´t do that.
Its either all units with numpad or all units without a numpad.
Lord High Everything Else
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
maybe they just don't see the sales to justify the tooling costs.
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
Huh! I am completly opposite. I love numpads, find them extremly useful and improving my productivity a lot. I Really find it missing on T530, and found myself here looking for a possible way to fit a T540 keyboard onto T530.
T470
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
No you're not. W530, T520, T520, X220, X2100 + X230t/T60/R60 parts. My inventory. No numpads.
Only one non-chicklet keyboard. Wanted to replace that but it's so nice and new and my family loves it.
P.S. there's exactly one key I ever press on numpads - the extra enter key. It's rather easy to find blind..
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
I'm in the same boat. I really liked it when 15" class laptops in general started coming through with them. For my personal machines, it's my only gripe with my T530 machines.Jake.Werecat wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:10 amHuh! I am completly opposite. I love numpads, find them extremly useful and improving my productivity a lot. I Really find it missing on T530, and found myself here looking for a possible way to fit a T540 keyboard onto T530.
I guess I'm a bean counter.
Jon
Thinkpad P51
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Thinkpad P51
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Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
Man I wish I could go back to 2017.
I generally use the number row but in the odd chance I'm operating one-handed a numpad is a great alternative, and the integrated numpad built into every 7 row keyboard fulfills that.
A funny thing is the W700 series has both the 7 row's integrated numpad and the dedicated numpad. A30 series can similarly be equipped with the Ultrabay numpad in addition to the integrated numpad.
Sadly Lenovo decontented the integrated numpad when they switched to the 6 row...
I generally use the number row but in the odd chance I'm operating one-handed a numpad is a great alternative, and the integrated numpad built into every 7 row keyboard fulfills that.
A funny thing is the W700 series has both the 7 row's integrated numpad and the dedicated numpad. A30 series can similarly be equipped with the Ultrabay numpad in addition to the integrated numpad.
Sadly Lenovo decontented the integrated numpad when they switched to the 6 row...
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
Alas, every 7-row keyboard except the Thinkpad 25, it seems.
Funny thing about it, though. It seems like there is no way to use the Ultrabay Numpad as digits (with Numlock On) without it also turning on the integrated numpad (and making letters act as numbers). At least I don't remember ever finding a method. There is a BIOS setting, IIRC, for separately controlling Numlock on an internal keyboard versus external PS/2 keyboard, but the Numpad is USB, and so is not affected by that.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Re: I hate numeric keypads. Am I the only one?
I use a numeric keypad all the time, and I am not an accountant. IMO, if faced with the choice of accomplishing a function with a single key press or key combination, versus multiple keypresses, or digging through menus, I gravitate towards the single key. When it comes to keyboard layouts, I would rather have a more efficient workflow and a larger keyboard, than a more compact keyboard and increased number of clicks.
In my usage, I'll often make use of the numeric keypad for shortcuts. Another way I use the numeric keypad is as extra thumb keys when using a mouse.
One of the things that pushed me to using an external mechanical keyboard with my Thinkpads is the inclusion of a numeric keypad. The other thing being the switch to the awful (IMO) island style 6 row keyboard.
In my usage, I'll often make use of the numeric keypad for shortcuts. Another way I use the numeric keypad is as extra thumb keys when using a mouse.
One of the things that pushed me to using an external mechanical keyboard with my Thinkpads is the inclusion of a numeric keypad. The other thing being the switch to the awful (IMO) island style 6 row keyboard.
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