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T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

T430-T490, T530-T590 Series
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Captain_Obvious
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T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#1 Post by Captain_Obvious » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:14 pm

Good evening all,

I've recently gotten a T440p for a relative to use as a laptop to use at home, do some minor stuff, etc etc. As part of this, I popped in a 1080p IPS display, a synaptics trackpad from a T450, some more RAM, added an SSD and replaced the i5 CPU (a 4300, iirc) with an i7 4712MQ that I got for a decent price. It's one of the models with the Nvidia GT 730m gpu.

Almost everything has gone rather well and it is a nice little laptop. However, I have had 2 problems;

1) The trackpad, while functioning under windows 10 (gestures etc work fine, as do the nipple & click pad), the three buttons just don't respond. Some time ago I managed to get it working on another example of a T440p for a friend, using a guide. Unfortunately I can't find the guide which has the final few steps to get the buttons working again. Would anyone know how I might get the buttons working?

2) This 4712MQ runs *hot*. Very very hot, compared to the claims of "30 degree idle temperatures" I've seen around here. I'm talking 50c+ at idle, using kryonaut, with the unit going past 80c going flat out! I didn't go totally bonkers with the paste, but I did err on the "just a tiny bit too much" side of things. I've tried undervolting the CPU a touch (using intel XTU), but this hasn't had much of an effect on the temps.
As far as I can tell, the heatsink seems to be in proper contact with everything as it's pumping out hot air when under load. Is there something amiss here, or is this just part of having the GT 730m?
Am I right in thinking the 4712MQ is a 37w part? If so, shouldn't the laptop be able to keep the temps under control better than this?

Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you all. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#2 Post by BillMorrow » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:20 pm

heh.. :)
well, welcome to the forum..
you sound like the type we like around here..
sadly, my days of modding a thinkpad ended 20 years ago..
hope you get the directions to get the mouse buttons going..
for me, these days, it is X1C extreme if i can afford the price..
wait a bit, it IS christmas time..
happy brexit..! :banana:
Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
Sysop - forum.thinkpads.com

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She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~

Captain_Obvious
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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#3 Post by Captain_Obvious » Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:24 pm

Heh :P

Thanks. I'm honestly rather tempted to keep this thing, but I know I have to give it up!

I'll keep looking for the guide. If I can find it, I'll post it in here.
Gawd darn it's frustrating!

The idea behind this mod was to get something cheap but decently powerful and usable enough for content consumption, with some (aka a little bit of) content creation and a whole lot of typing. It seemed a better choice than a brand new "bargain basement" craptop!

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#4 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:27 am

The Clunkpad guide is at the top of this very webpage: viewtopic.php?f=68&t=126860
i7-4712MQ is indeed a 37W CPU.
Kryonaut max. quantity needed is a dollop the size of 1-2 rice corns, spread evenly with e.g. a credit card.
My T440p has Intel GPU and i7-4702MQ, idling in the early thirties.
I haven't seen it go anywhere over 70 C, but then I don't stress any laptops, I've got a desktop for that.

If your 4712 runs so hot, a previous owner probably overclocked the hell out of it.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.

PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine
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Captain_Obvious
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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#5 Post by Captain_Obvious » Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:04 am

Hey,

Thanks for the reply, but I already used that guide to get the clunkpad installed. However, it doesn't cover what needs to be done in order to get the buttons working. I just can't for the life of me find the guide I used (it was a specific guide on sorting out the "trackpad works, but buttons don't" issue with the T440p & 450 clunkpad on windows 10). I'll just have to keep looking for it, it'll turn up eventually!

So, you think I might be SOL on the cpu then? Have you seen this kind of problem before?

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#6 Post by Captain_Obvious » Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:30 pm

A belated happy new year to you all.

My apologies for the delay, but I only just found the guide I had previously used. It was a registry edit that had to be made in order to get the t450 trackpad buttons working when used with a t440p.

https://blogs.ethz.ch/heim/2017/01/02/e ... t-buttons/

With this, I created a small .txt file, copied the reg edit into there and then ran that file as a .reg.
It worked perfectly. I think I disturbed the neighbours with my triumphant shout! :lol:

So that's one problem out of the way, now I just have this darn heat problem to deal with. It's now hovering between 55c and 60c at idle, on the desktop.

EDIT (06/01/20)

Ok, so I went back and repasted the CPU & GPU, on the off chance. No significant change to temps there, at idle or under load. Same paste (Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut).
I ended up putting the old i5 back in and the idle temp is now in the high 40s. Under load it hits the 80s.
It's not great, but at least usable.

Any ideas? Because I'm fresh out.

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#7 Post by MEA707 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:11 am

I have an i7-4800MQ in mine and it idles in the low 50's. If I watch a 4K60fps video such as the one below, it will hit 92 degrees and thermal throttle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXb3EKWsInQ

These are hot running laptops, granted I have not removed the fan/heatsink assembly and reapply thermal paste yet, it's probably time.
Lenovo ThinkPad T440p | Intel Core i7-4800MQ 2.70 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Lenovo ThinkPad T61 | Intel Core 2 Duo T9300 2.50 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#8 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:09 am

I watched this same youtube on my T440p with FHD, iGPU and i7-4702MQ (with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut).
Temperature never went over 56 C.
Guess it's time for you to refresh the thermal paste with Kryonaut.
For the how-to: http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth ... d_v1.1.pdf
And use the T440p Manual from the HMM link at the top of this page.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.

PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine
.

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#9 Post by MEA707 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:36 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:09 am
I watched this same youtube on my T440p with FHD, iGPU and i7-4702MQ (with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut).
Temperature never went over 56 C.
Guess it's time for you to refresh the thermal paste with Kryonaut.
For the how-to: http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth ... d_v1.1.pdf
And use the T440p Manual from the HMM link at the top of this page.
I've got some Arctic Silver 5 laying around from when I did the motherboard swap on my T61 three years ago, would you recommend Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut over that?

Pretty impressive temperatures you have. I have the dGPU, but it wasn't being used when I was watching that video.
Lenovo ThinkPad T440p | Intel Core i7-4800MQ 2.70 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Lenovo ThinkPad T61 | Intel Core 2 Duo T9300 2.50 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#10 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:46 pm

AS5 takes 200 hours to settle in, and is also a lot less effective than Kryonaut.
'Nuff said.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.

PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine
.

MEA707
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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#11 Post by MEA707 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:56 pm

Did you apply it using the spread or pea method? Or some other method?
Lenovo ThinkPad T440p | Intel Core i7-4800MQ 2.70 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Lenovo ThinkPad T61 | Intel Core 2 Duo T9300 2.50 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

Captain_Obvious
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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#12 Post by Captain_Obvious » Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:37 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:09 am
I watched this same youtube on my T440p with FHD, iGPU and i7-4702MQ (with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut).
Temperature never went over 56 C.
Guess it's time for you to refresh the thermal paste with Kryonaut.
For the how-to: http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth ... d_v1.1.pdf
And use the T440p Manual from the HMM link at the top of this page.
I already used kryonaut, as mentioned above, when I swapped out the CPU to the 4712.
MEA707 wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:56 pm
Did you apply it using the spread or pea method? Or some other method?

I used multiple methods, none of which made any noticeable difference. It was still hot as all hell. Past 50c at idle!

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#13 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:17 am

I always use the spread-method on laptops.
Clean everything with Isopropyl Alcohol (91% or higher).
Put a small dollop of paste (size of 1-2 rice corns) on the CPU.
Spread that into an even, thin layer with an old credit-card, or something else if you so wish.
(I normally use a double-folded piece of paper from a block of small Post-it notes (51x38 mm).
Image
Easier to throw that away, rather than clean the card.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.

PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine
.

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#14 Post by MEA707 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:00 pm

I ordered some Kryonaut per your recommendation and from what I've read a lot online. It seems very good, HOWEVER, it also may not be the best application if the laptop naturally runs at very high temperatures. Apparently after 80 degrees C, it will start to dry up and lose effectiveness, which is not an issue for desktops, but for high performance laptops, this may be an issue. Oh well, I'll give it a try and see.

It does come with a small spatula, so I'll use that to spread it.

Does anyone know how the T440p heatsink sits against the CPU and GPU die? Is it one that sits nice and flush and covers the entire surface well or is it a heatsink that could sit unevenly and create some gaps? I've read there are certain thermal pastes that are better suited for these types of more uneven heatsink mounts that do a good job of filling the gaps versus others that require good contact to avoid the thermal paste from pumping out.
Lenovo ThinkPad T440p | Intel Core i7-4800MQ 2.70 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Lenovo ThinkPad T61 | Intel Core 2 Duo T9300 2.50 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#15 Post by MEA707 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:45 pm

UPDATE:

Just changed the thermal paste with Kryonaut and watched that video is the max temperatures reached were 82 degrees and that was with a bit of multitasking while it was playing. That's a decent improvement from the 92 degrees and I can tolerate that, as long as it doesn't trigger thermal throttling like it was constantly doing before, which was occurring even without watching that video. I did blow out the fan assembly, although it did not look particularly dusty.

What's interesting is my idle temperatures are virtually unchanged, in the low 50's.

We'll see how these temperatures hold.
Lenovo ThinkPad T440p | Intel Core i7-4800MQ 2.70 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Lenovo ThinkPad T61 | Intel Core 2 Duo T9300 2.50 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

Tanked
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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#16 Post by Tanked » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:59 am

Hi, i have just upgraded to a t440p and have been going through the process of refining. I have come to some conclusions and want to share the results with those who might want to be enlightened. I sourced my unit from ebay, 20AN 00DEUS. Came with IPS and 240 SSD, 8gb.(was upgraded from an office auction) I am using a docking station 40A2 ( i needed and using the HDMI) I bought the dock as open box and when i tried to lock the machine into the dock it would not engage. I took it apart and 2 screws fell out. These screws were not part of assembly and it seems that some hungover worker let them fall into his/her work station. Now the dock works fine, but I did modify it to reduce heat.
ok, now we have some background, lets talk about heat..... I sourced an i7_4702MQ from ebay from what seemed to be a reputable source. It is HIT or MISS when sourcing these cpu's.... anyway. I installed the 4702 using Arctic silver 5 because that was what i had. The same temperatures were present after the change from i5 to i7 : idle=52-54, usage using youtubeTV and three windows open= 72C. The reading were the same between the original i5-4210 and the new i7-4702. There was no difference in temperature between the i5 and the new i7 using the same media as test. I then used Kryonaut with more positive results as follows: NO change in in idle temp with Kryonaut however there was a big change in temp under load.. it seems that the more the load was the less the temperature increase. In my experience, the Kryonaeut was very effective in reducing temperatures while under load. This machine as never gone over 67. C with normal use with Kryonaut. This machine has never idled below 52C, with i5, with i7,. Perhaps the idle temps are indicative of how windows 10 handles the processors . I mean, maybe the processors are ramped up always in the event that heavy stuff will come .BOOM.
final thoughts: If your BIOS doesnt accept your i7, your i7sucks
windows 7 handles cpu,s very differently.than windows10 :)
i74207MQ is amazing for t440p....
52C idle is OK

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#17 Post by Tanked » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:17 am

i74207MQ on sale, ebay :D

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#18 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:23 am

To complete the info, my T440p with i7-4702MQ runs W7-Pro/SP1 64-bit, without any Micro$haft updates since 2016.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.

PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine
.

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#19 Post by MEA707 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:37 am

Tanked wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:59 am
NO change in in idle temp with Kryonaut however there was a big change in temp under load.. it seems that the more the load was the less the temperature increase. In my experience, the Kryonaeut was very effective in reducing temperatures while under load.
My exact experience. No change in idle temps, but big change when under load. Right now I rarely go over 70, usually with normal usage I'll hover in the 50's to the 60's. Watching a 4K 60fps video will briefly push it to the low 80's, but it'll usually stay in the mid to high 70's when under heavy load.

Previously with the stock thermal paste, it would go into the 80's and low 90's periodically with just moderate usage...

Fan is definitely quieter and when it does run, it never runs at full RPM like I used to before.

So while it still is a hot runner, it's vastly improved from before. I just hope these temperatures remain. If they do, then I'm very very satisfied with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut.
Lenovo ThinkPad T440p | Intel Core i7-4800MQ 2.70 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Lenovo ThinkPad T61 | Intel Core 2 Duo T9300 2.50 GHz | Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#20 Post by Tanked » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:46 am

yeah, she runs hot,, also, I am in a dock... I hacked the dock in order get some reduction in temps .. i got maybe 3-4C with my mods,,,

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#21 Post by Tanked » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:50 am

i did the hack the RBS suggested. Cut away the area of the dock that is choking the fan exit... very effective in gaining flow

Tanked
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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#22 Post by Tanked » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:12 pm

edit: it is unclear why some i7-4702MQ cpu do not register with BIOS on some T440p. I mentioned that it must be some defect with the cpu but this cannot be proven. Maybe a BIOS update can solve this issue? I dont know but it is unlikely that your cpu sucks..

I am curious to know what idle temps t440p users are having. I find it difficult to believe that any temps in the 30's are achievable. I have not even seen 40's. Please respond with data that can shed light on this.

MEA707 your issues are not issues. It seems that you have done everything correct and are achieving good performance despite high-ish temps. One thing is for sure that RealBlackStuff was correct with suggesting Kryonaut. You and me are not allowed to be members of the 30Club ( 30c idle temps) haha.. Lets start a list of club members:
1. RealBlackStuff - windows 7 pro , idle low 30's

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Re: T440p i7 4712MQ heat?

#23 Post by W500tragic » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:11 am

Sorry Captain_Obvious that I didn't see your thread earlier, regarding the non-operational buttons on the trackpad. Are they working for you yet?

I write because I had a similar problem, when replacing my T440p stock flat touchpad, with a T450 trackpad (Alps). I tend to do a bit of tinkering and I thought I had done a good job first time - but the button operation was very patchy, and unworkable from the get-go. After multiple attempts at re-seating everything, I noticed that a small kink had developed near the middle of the flat trackpad ribbon cable, just before it makes two 45-degree turns to go sideways. I traced this kink (an imprint on the cable wires) to an impression that was being made by the sharp metal corner of an otherwise flat box unit on the underside surface of the palm rest. (Sorry that I lack the technical or electronic jargon). Anyway, by covering the sharp corner with layers of red-devil tape (didn't remove the backing tape for double-sided goodness) I had enough cushioning to straighten out the ribbon cable wires. My trackpoint+button function returned immediately and I have not had another issue with it in over 3 months operation. I took a sequence of photos to illustrate the problem and solution, if anyone is interested,
HTH
T60 (2006; T7200 2.0GHz, 4GB DDR2)
T61 (2007; T9500 2.6GHz, 6GB DDR2)
W500 (2008; T9600 2.8GHz, 6GB DDR3)
X130e (2012; Celeron 857 1.2GHz, 12GB DDR3)
X131e (2013; Celeron 1007U 1.5GHz, 16 GB DDR3)
T440p (2016; i7-4600 2.9GHz, 16GB DDR3)

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