Thinkpads Forum

Hi everyone

Windows 11 has some key differences in its minimum system requirements from Windows 10:

- x64
- UEFI
- TPM 2.0

My T430s has TPM 1.2.
Is it possible to update it to 2.0 ?

PS: When did Thinkpads begin shipping with TPM 2.0 ? (My T450s has 2.0)

I don't think the final build will actually require TPM. But, I may be wrong.

Actually on this topic, I think what spells doom on most older hardware is the fact that as of now, it wants DirectX 12 capable graphics...
So, what this means is even perfectly snappy machines like W530/T530 are doomed with this update!
What this also means is you also need minimum a machine with Haswell inside and a MxM modular graphics card so you can throw in a DirectX 12 capable graphics card just to get Windows 11 to run properly!
As for the TPM, I have read in official requirements for Windows 10 that even in Windows 10 technically TPM is required, but it says in detail that it's more of a regulation for any PC that's shipped out brand new after 2016.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... s-overview

And the same sh!te is probably going to happen next year with Windows 12 etc.
The fact that they are coming out with a "new" version (W11) only means that the previous version (W10) was crap.
Which is a rather well-known fact.

darn just created a thread in the Windows 10 forum on the same topic. This does get most Classic hardware to be stuck on Windows 10 at best. I will perhaps have to finally pony up for a New Machine later in the year to be able to use Windows 11. So the so called Free Upgrade doesn't apply to most of us.

Post 2025, almost all of these machines will end up on Linux and I'm confident that many of them will still be operational then. b

RealBlackStuff wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:39 am

And the same sh!te is probably going to happen next year with Windows 12 etc.
The fact that they are coming out with a "new" version (W11) only means that the previous version (W10) was crap.
Which is a rather well-known fact.

All it means is that they negotiated newer terms with OEMs for Windows licensing and so had to change the name. I wouldn't be surprised if the internal versioning remains 10.1 or something like that to avoid breaking software compatibility. Nothing I've seem about the OS so far shows the need for a newer nomenclature other than marketing and licensing purposes.

The store needs to be backward compatible with Win 10 and they'll have to maximize compatibility with most features in the Sun Valley update.

Hmm.. I'm only running Windows now in a KVM VM inside Ubuntu.
I'm on T520 now, although I have a T530 motherboard and a W530 too.
My X2100 isn't fully functional yet but I planned the same: Ubuntu + Windows in a VM

I this going to fly?
Win11 in a VM?
I certainly hope it will

BTW re DirectX 12 - is my understanding correct that there is no DirectX 12 graphics for Intel HD whatever there is in T520/T530?
Assuming this is an integrated graphics machine?

P.S. Actually I did want to start running that W530 as Windows-only in near future. If they cut that possibility that will be bad There will still be uses for it but not as many as I hoped

atagunov wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:28 am

BTW re DirectX 12 - is my understanding correct that there is no DirectX 12 graphics for Intel HD whatever there is in T520/T530?
Assuming this is an integrated graphics machine?

I believe the NVS 5400M has no DX12 support either. So all T530 and W530 models are doomed (at the very least as portable laptops)
For haswell machines you need one with discrete graphics to have DX12. Otherwise you need a Broadwell based machine.
For Sandy bridge/Ivy bridge you need to fit a mxm graphics card that has DirectX 12 on it, but unfortunately no ThinkPads of that generation actually have a mxm graphics slot.
Anything earlier than that is also doomed as Windows 11 wants UEFI boot.
PS: Well, for Windows 10 they've managed to support far more machines than Mac OS does, with LGA775 based Pentium 4 and Pentium D systems as well as Athlon 64 CPU's all supported in Windows 10.
Now with Windows 11 they managed to throw a full decade worth of systems out of support all at once! Gives me the vibes of Windows Vista as asking for DX12 support today is precisely like asking for DX9 support in 2006, and that wasn't even mandatory to just get the OS running.

...actually I haven't tried them but Quadro 418 drivers are declared to support K2000M and DirectX 12. Same drivers are meant to support K1000M as well. So video cards on W530-s may continue to qualify.

The next question is about the TPM I guess. Perhaps if M$ is adamant it has to be 2.0 there will be some creative solution to that? In the form of a slight unofficial tweak to the OS?.. Actually there seems to be one already, the idea is to take one of the .dll-s from Win10. But living in a constant fear that the next update will make the machine unbootable.. BRRR

atagunov wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:35 pm

The next question is about the TPM I guess. Perhaps if M$ is adamant it has to be 2.0 there will be some creative solution to that? In the form of a slight unofficial tweak to the OS?.. Actually there seems to be one already, the idea is to take one of the .dll-s from Win10. But living in a constant fear that the next update will make the machine unbootable.. BRRR

Well seems like there's a workaround already posted on the other thread on this forum about Windows 11.
I just checked dxdiag, seems like even NVS 4200M is kind of DX12 capable. It's not DX12 feature set capable, and for that nor is the NVS 5200M, 5400M.
Let's hope DX12 support through driver is good enough for Windows 11.
But this also means X230 is doomed because the Intel HD 4000 driver is neither any kind of DX12 capable nor is it WDDM2.0 compliant.
In fact, even X240 is doomed. It has the clunkpad thing and is often overlooked anyway.

kfzhu1229 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:52 pm

But this also means X230 is doomed because the Intel HD 4000 driver is neither any kind of DX12 capable nor is it WDDM2.0 compliant.

Linux + VM = Windows for applications that are not demanding - like remoting into work.
I seriously hope at least this will continue working even on X220.
A special driver emulating DX 12 fully in software for such VM-s will hopefully be written.

W530 is a different matter however, it's so much better suited for Windows..

O.P. here. Please continue the discussion in the Windows subforum:

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=132709

As stated there: My T430 with Intel HD graphics runs the W11 Beta just fine, so it seems a lot of the "requirements" for W11 are "soft", meaning: not needed.