Thinkpads Forum

Here is a picture of the new X230:
http://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/129718 ... ost1347220
Coming on Market June 5th


mod edit: fixed link

Hi,

Thank you for this information. Just two things. Only part of the link is "clickable" not the whole string. Another is when I click on one or either of the two image links, the German forum is requesting a user name and password.

John

Hm, ok. Here is the picture:


Interesting is also this PDF from Lenovo (where I found this picture): http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=t ... m5ximp3pNA

Looks like a chiclet keyboard. (not that it's necessarily a worse off)

*Looks* slimmer. Could be an illusion though.

Cheers.

P.S. On p.33 it says Huron River available for purchase on 5th June.

Hm, is it just me or does the bezel look slimmer? That's one thing that's offputting with x-series after the x61. Bezel, bezel everywhere.

Looks slimmer to me too.

Anyway, just wait perhaps one or few more weeks and it will be clear. Would be an improvement chassis-wise if the whole unit and the bezel is thinner, and the front of the device tapers off more.

Cheers.

Probably off topic, but on page 43, it also confirmed there will be a T430s model.

The biggest question for me is, will there be a line across the lid like the x220?

Two immediate thoughts come to my mind. Are the ThinkPads turning into consumer laptops and where is Lenovo heading with the ThinkPad design? The laptop looks thin in the picture and that keyboard is .....uh...I'm not sure what to think about it. What really stood out with ThinkPads and other laptops is the ThinkPad keyboard. I once let a friend in my class use my X200 and she raved about the keyboard. Now that it's gone chiclet I hope that it at least feels tactile, has good feedback, has water-spill protection, and is easy to replace. I just hate for the ThinkPad to turn into another laptop that is not very discernible amongst all the other laptops out there. I'm a bit torn on the progress of the ThinkPad line. I hope Lenovo seriously doesn't compromise too much of the sturdiness and no-nonsense practicality that the ThinkPad is known for.

I hope Lenovo seriously doesn't compromise too much of the sturdiness and no-nonsense practicality that the ThinkPad is known for.

Well... let's see. They changed the trackpad to one without buttons, they removed the hinge to open the book, they've gone and changed the keyboard to an array of buttons, AND on top of that, there don't seem to be any dedicated F-keys (you have to hold down FN to get them- so hitting Control-F1 on some programs is going to be more awkward than normal). Plus, all they did is make the Clickpad bigger even though the keyboard was made smaller.
Oh, and the ThinkLight is gone, too.

So unless they're offering a CTO option (or some other model) that has the option to use the old keyboard (the bezel being the same dimensions as the X220) and have the light... "no-nonsense practicality" flies out the window.

Q-Ball wrote:AND on top of that, there don't seem to be any dedicated F-keys (you have to hold down FN to get them- so hitting Control-F1 on some programs is going to be more awkward than normal).

Care to share where you get this from?
As far as I can see, on the F-keys the F# markings are white, not blue. This means you don't hold down FN to get to F-keys.
(And by the way, chiclet doesn't automatically mean no F-keys, if you're wondering. My main laptop is an Asus chiclet which does have sensible F-keys. Blame HP and Apple for the FN+F1 nonsense.)

Q-Ball wrote: Oh, and the ThinkLight is gone, too.

It would be irrelevant if the keyboard is backlit.

Backlit keyboards are Gay with a capital G.
Not that there's anything wrong with it.

twistero wrote: It would be irrelevant if the keyboard is backlit.

I'd very much beg to differ on that one, and would bet my last penny that I'm not alone...

ajkula66 wrote: I'd very much beg to differ on that one, and would bet my last penny that I'm not alone...

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Personally, I find thinklights way too dark to see the keyboard clearly, especially around the perimeter of the keyboard where it's actually useful (since I touch type fine on the letter keys; it's only with the farther out keys that I may have trouble.)

What bugs me above anything is the move towards copying Mac.
Mac goes Chiclet everyone goes Chiclet.
Mac has backlit keyboard everyone has backlit keyboard.
Mac has NO latch, everyone has NO latch.
Mac decides that round edges are cool, everyone decides that round edges are cool.
Mac decides that glossy screen are IN, everyone decides that Glossy screens are IN.
Mac decides that round edges are UNCOOL ala Iphone 4, everyone suddenly realizes that Square is back.

I mean for god sakes, I would think that Thinkpads would be the last to give into this Mac trend.
Anyone who understands true style, knows that style comes from setting trends not following them.
I always thought that Thinkpads were beyond trends, they were classy like a fine Zegna suit or an classic Patek watch. They didn't need to care for what was IN because they followed their own style.

I loved showing people my Thinklight or my Matte Black Chassis (with no lines across it) or my old school Keyboard. Now everything that made Thinkpads Cool is gone. It's like Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantine suddenly decided that manual watches were no longer COOL and decided to make digital watches. It's insanity to try to follow trends, when your Brand is so old and distinguished that you are your own trend.

This is what Lenovo has forgotten. They spend tons of money buying what was considered the Patek Philippe of PC Brands, and instead of sticking with traditions they have decided to cheapen the brand by following trends that only low level PC companies need to worry about. It's kind of like buying a Patek Philippe and turning it into Seiko Kinetic.

The very notion of an old distinguished brand is that you are beyond trends, because you are your own trend.
This is something that Lenovo needs to understand.

The reason why Macs are always on top is because they don't follow trends, they set them. I hope some folks at Lenovo are listening.

Kaze22 wrote:What bugs me above anything is the move towards copying Mac.
<snip>
I mean for god sakes, I would think that Thinkpads would be the last to give into this Mac trend.
Anyone who understands true style, knows that style comes from setting trends not following them.
I always thought that Thinkpads were beyond trends, they were classy like a fine Zegna suit or an classic Patek watch. They didn't need to care for what was IN because they followed their own style.

I loved showing people my Thinklight or my Matte Black Chassis (with no lines across it) or my old school Keyboard. Now everything that made Thinkpads Cool is gone. It's like Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantine suddenly decided that manual watches were no longer COOL and decided to make digital watches. It's insanity to try to follow trends, when your Brand is so old and distinguished that you are your own trend.

This is what Lenovo has forgotten. They spend tons of money buying what was considered the Patek Philippe of PC Brands, and instead of sticking with traditions they have decided to cheapen the brand by following trends that only low level PC companies need to worry about. It's kind of like buying a Patek Philippe and turning it into Seiko Kinetic.

The very notion of an old distinguished brand is that you are beyond trends, because you are your own trend.
This is something that Lenovo needs to understand.

The reason why Macs are always on top is because they don't follow trends, they set them. I hope some folks at Lenovo are listening.

This. Well said, sir, I can't agree more.
<evil> Now that Apple's mastermind has passed away, I hope they fall from their throne in a few year just like the last time they got rid of him. </evil>

One thing that is certain is thet Chinese companies have never been great at setting trends. It's never been their strong suit, following what is perceived as being cool is what Chinese companies do very well.
Sad thing is, this will lead to the downfall of the Thinkpad brand.
All those years of IBM arrogance down the drain. Does Lenovo know how hard it is to become a distinguished brand? It takes countless years of refusal to change and countless man hours of sheer arrogance in design philosophy.
It's your way or the highway every time, no exceptions.
Thats how you build a distinguished brand.

The problem is that no one aspires to be an owner of a distinguished brand's stock...and we live in the world that is ruled by stockholder primacy doctrine...

Look who owns Jaguar - let alone Volvo - nowadays...

You're catching my drift, I'm sure...

Yeah thats why Lenovo had to buy the Thinkbrand.
It's an acquisition of PC royalty.
You don't purchase a distinguished brand just to cheapen it.

Swatch owns Omega, but you don't see them making cheap Omega to sell at Wallmart for the general masses.

Lenovo has several PC lines that they can use to follow trends and satisfy the masses, why would you cheapen a brand that you spent so much money acquiring? Makes no sense.

You don't acquire a Jaguar Brand to turn it into Civic. Thats not the right way to increase your stock value.

Many, many small companies buy older more distinguished companies over time. But very few of them then turn around and cheapen the brand that they've purchased.

If I were a stock holder of Omega, I don't know how I'd feel about there watches being sold on corner stands in the shopping mall for 20 bucks a piece. I'd dump the stock.

Kaze22 wrote: You don't acquire a Jaguar Brand to turn it into Civic. Thats not the right way to increase your stock value.

Well, Ford did an excellent job of turning it into a Taurus... ...that's why they had to sell it off at a loss twenty years later...after they've closed the original Coventry plant, bloody morons...

I've had difficulty swallowing the Windows key on Lenovo-era ThinkPads. Now, a 6-row chiclet keyboard...nah. I don't think so. Immediate indigestion, right then and there. I'll just buy a HP and call it a day...at least I'll be able to enjoy a full-size IPS screen...

I'm staring at my seven row X220i keyboard. There's only six keys on the seventh row, none of which I use much - print screen, scroll lock, pause, insert, etc. Six seldom used keys wouldn't make much of a difference to me. Of more concern to me would be the feel. I didn't care for the ultrabooks I've used like the Air or XPS as they're too thin to allow for any key depth, which is an important part of the typing experience. The one chiclet keyboard I did like somewhat was the HP dm4t, though that's a thicker notebook and did allow for some depth. I guess I'll reserve judgment until I used it, but if it's thick enough to allow for some key depth, I may like it.

emeraldgirl08 wrote:What really stood out with ThinkPads and other laptops is the ThinkPad keyboard. I once let a friend in my class use my X200 and she raved about the keyboard. Now that it's gone chiclet I hope that it at least feels tactile, has good feedback, has water-spill protection, and is easy to replace.

I can assure you that tactile feedback, spill protection and easy replaceability are all going to remain. Even engineers who like to mess with things for no good reason are usually not stupid enough to downright ruin them. However, the traditional keyboard layout, which to many (yours truly included) is as important as the rigidity is gone, and that is sad.

Q-Ball wrote:AND on top of that, there don't seem to be any dedicated F-keys (you have to hold down FN to get them- so hitting Control-F1 on some programs is going to be more awkward than normal).

In all laptops where the Function keys serve as multimedia keys by default, and you need to hold Fn for the original functionality, there is a setting in the BIOS to restore normal behavior.

Q-Ball wrote:So unless they're offering a CTO option (or some other model) that has the option to use the old keyboard (the bezel being the same dimensions as the X220)

They are not going to. Might as well stop saying that, it's not going to make it come true.

Kaze22 wrote:Mac decides that glossy screen are IN, everyone decides that Glossy screens are IN.

In their defense, Apple were the last in the non-business brands to still offer matte screen options, and now it seems they are bringing some of them back.

Kaze22 wrote:The reason why Macs are always on top is because they don't follow trends, they set them. I hope some folks at Lenovo are listening.

You are totally right. And it is doubly sad that Lenovo seems to want to relinquish its unique identity in order to be more like everyone else. Short term it may be good for their profits, but long term - never.

Kaze22 wrote:Lenovo has several PC lines that they can use to follow trends and satisfy the masses, why would you cheapen a brand that you spent so much money acquiring? Makes no sense.

Again, could not agree with you more. I always like innovations and additions and more options. The X300/X400T400s series were great addition to the business line. The SL/Edge series in my mind was also a great move - a cheaper series of more multimedia-oriented machines, with some Thinkpad characteristics (yes, the keyboard is only 6-row, but it was good, and there is a trackpoint, and matte screen options, and above average design. Overall it filled a previously empty niche in the small business sector, or for consumers who want a little extra without paying too much.

But while I'm happy with the fact that there is such a thing as Thinkpad Edge, I would not be happy to see every Thinkpad become a Thinkpad Edge. And with this keyboard it's another step in that direction.

ajkula66 wrote:I've had difficulty swallowing the Windows key on Lenovo-era ThinkPads

Well, my friend, this is just your conservatism. The Windows key is standard, and it's good. I became fond of it when I realized it has more functions than accidentally minimizing my full-screen video game and pi**ing me off in the process; it actually allows easy access to a few convenient shortcuts. Besides, it was added without sacrificing much of anything (the Ctrl and Alt became a little smaller, and that's it).

To me the Windows key versus the 6-row is exactly the two examples that illustrate the difference between a small improvement without breaking anything, and a major unwarranted change which partly reduces usability. Good vs bad.

ZaZ wrote:I'm staring at my seven row X220i keyboard. There's only six keys on the seventh row, none of which I use much - print screen, scroll lock, pause, insert, etc. Six seldom used keys wouldn't make much of a difference to me.

You are lucky. Unfortunately not all are as lucky as you. 6-row, 7-row - these are just buzzwords. Technically the keyboard is 8-row (count the arrow keys), but it's beside the point. It's the layout that matters.

Breaking the 6-key navigation block is quite annoying for someone who is using it a lot and is used for the keys to be in the same locations on all his keyboards. Print Screen is still there, but also moved, and now the menu key is gone (I personally don't care as much, but some users surely do). Same goes for Pause and Scroll Lock (which are probably still accessible using some Fn combinations, but it's counter-productive).

Yes, overall probably less than 1% of the people use these keys. And I would understand a compromise which makes things bad for this 1% while making it better for the other 99%. But there is nothing in the new layout that is better for anyone (except maybe for Lenovo's manufacturing department if it's cheaper). That's the problem.

I've been holding out for this laptop, but I am so appalled by this change to the keyboard that I am planning to just get an X220 instead.

I've only just got around to accepting the aspect ratio change (and at least the screen quality has finally been improved), but I use all the keys on ThinkPad keyboards (even Scroll Lock) and the keyboards are the best thing about ThinkPads.

I think they changed the keyboard layout as it makes the laptop look better and less quirky, which is just terrible.

Kaze22 wrote:What bugs me above anything is the move towards copying Mac....The reason why Macs are always on top is because they don't follow trends, they set them. I hope some folks at Lenovo are listening.

Kaze22, thanks for your great post -- it almost made an atheist say Amen! This trend of copying from Apple is extremely disturbing. Just half a decade ago, pretty much every laptop or smartphone brand was unique, except for an occasional Chinese knockoff. Now, all big-name brands are knocking off Apple products, especially in the realm of slate tablets. By doing so, they are acknowledging that Apple is the leader and the best, even infringing Apple's patents every now and then. With every brand unwittingly advertising Apple products, it's no wonder Apple's market share keeps skyrocketing. The only brand that is still holding out is Panasonic, and indeed a majority of the current laptops that interest me are made by Panasonic, i.e. the SX1, NX1 and B10.

Good thing no one is copying the designs of Apple desktop monitors, yet. I totally HATE the looks of Apple monitors. Dell rules in this department.

Anyone knows whether it would be possible to replace the X230 crapboard with X220 keyboard ? I don't think so but ...

Puppy wrote:Anyone knows whether it would be possible to replace the X230 crapboard with X220 keyboard ? I don't think so but ...

But if you keep asking it just may become possible, right?

And of course anyone able to answer this question based on a blurry side picture should receive the Cassandra prize.

Kaze22 wrote:Anyone who understands true style, knows that style comes from setting trends not following them.

Its been my experience is that anyone who makes references to true style is just pushing their own biases

True. I'm biased towards anything that is old school. Anything that refuses to change, I find fascinating. Used be Thinkpads were up there on my top list of things I find stylish.
Anything that bends with the times I despise, including social trends.
Like anti smoking. Yes, I'm also a proud smoker.
So in that sense I hate all things Mac, because it represents the opposite of old school. It saddens me that Thinkpads are moving towards Macs.
I'm a fan of the saying, that if you do something wrong long enough it becomes right, but you stop then you are just wrong.

That's it then, no more thinkpad for me. Having used the x1 keyboard I can tell you that it feels way worst.

Kaze22 wrote:It saddens me that Thinkpads are moving towards Macs.

I wouldn't mind if the change was constructive (like lets say the big Esc and Delete keys). But offering a crappy keyboard layout like 99% of cheap notebooks currently have does not improve anything. What next, ABCDEF instead of QWERTY because it "looks better" ?

It is also funny to read this Lenovo blog article 9 Principles For Great Branding By Design saying "There are few products that have a stronger design and branding connection than a ThinkPad".I thought that the ThinkPad keyboard layout with blue Enter key was the brand design but ... Unfortunately comments aren't allowed there unless you are connected to an a/social trendy club like facebook but there is already one from "modifier" on the topic. Trying to guess the reply: "We don't have reliable supplier of traditional ThinkPad keyboards" ?