Thinkpads Forum

I am seriously considering getting an X230t for school use to replace notebooks, drawing out diagrams, etc. and I think it would be easier to study and stay organized by doing this as well.

However, I am not so sure about the digitizer vs. traditional pen and paper. If I drop $1500 on a brand new X230t and end up not liking or using it like stated above, it would be a waste of extra weight and money, among other things, and I would have been better off with a higher-res T430 or the like.

So to all you convertible tablet owners out there who use the tablet for writing and note-taking, what are your thoughts?

How 'bout getting a used model, perhaps one of the older ones, like the X41T or X6xT, and see if you like doing that way first...?

Some people find the physical way is more productive and/or less of a hassle than the digital way, others do just fine with both and some even prefer the latter, YMMV.

Cheers.

I would tend to agree. A used tablet would give you the opportunity to try it out to see if you like it. If you don't and sell it, you'll take a much smaller hit money wise than if you bought a new one. I'd also stay away from the X41t. The slow clicky drives are major performance killers.

Thanks guys for replying. But it seems I don't have a choice, looking at the course requirements.

http://cse.umn.edu/prod/groups/cse/@pub ... 290889.pdf

So that narrows it down to T430(s), and I will probably go for the T430 for the better GPU and the i7. (Unfortunately, the "s" can't be configured with the discrete gpu and the i7. Thermal issues perhaps?) W530 and T530 I imagine will be too big for me to be hauling around campus.

That's too bad, I was really looking forward to using a convertible tablet for school, but I imagine typing and/or pen & paper will be just fine. I probably will check into the tablets eventually though..

I presume you're concerned over pt.12...? Keep in mind that integrated graphics have come a long way since the days of GMA900, although lots of people are still stuck in the "integrated graphics sux" mindset.

OTOH, many "professional" software, so it seems, is tailored to support AMD/nVidia (pro) stuffs. Besides, the Intel drivers may not as optimized for pro soft even though it has the raw power.

At the same time, AMD/nVidia used to (maybe still are) distinguish their pro line by driver/firmware. Not sure if one can still modify the drivers and make a GeForce runs like a Quadro though.

All in all, without knowing exactly what software you'll need to run, while the requirements is quite ambiguous (i5 or i7, that's it...? Has the author compared the slowest i5 and the fastest i7...?), it's better to err on the safe side.

Cheers.

if you have the budget, just get a laptop that meets those requirements and find a cheap X61t on ebay (there are tons all the time). I've been using tablet PCs for 4 years in school for engineering and would not go back to pencil and paper unless i needed to for a certain day or class.

loyukfai wrote:All in all, without knowing exactly what software you'll need to run, while the requirements is quite ambiguous (i5 or i7, that's it...? Has the author compared the slowest i5 and the fastest i7...?), it's better to err on the safe side.

i bet some ivy bridge core i3 processors are faster than arrandale i5s. these just seem like random "spend all your money" requirements.

loyukfai wrote:I presume you're concerned over pt.12...? Keep in mind that integrated graphics have come a long way since the days of GMA900, although lots of people are still stuck in the "integrated graphics sux" mindset.

OTOH, many "professional" software, so it seems, is tailored to support AMD/nVidia (pro) stuffs. Besides, the Intel drivers may not as optimized for pro soft even though it has the raw power.

At the same time, AMD/nVidia used to (maybe still are) distinguish their pro line by driver/firmware. Not sure if one can still modify the drivers and make a GeForce runs like a Quadro though.

All in all, without knowing exactly what software you'll need to run, while the requirements is quite ambiguous (i5 or i7, that's it...? Has the author compared the slowest i5 and the fastest i7...?), it's better to err on the safe side.

Cheers.

Well, it mentions Autodesk Inventor on the website in a few places. Probably other stuff too. And I agree, starting with the HD 3000 and now the 4000 they have certainly made leaps and bounds. My T400 technically meets the bare requirements, with 256mb of video mem. and support (barely) for DX9/10. But, both intel HD 3000/4000 would be much better. I'm sure it's all in the drivers, but I have no idea if one could modify them.

mariol90 wrote:if you have the budget, just get a laptop that meets those requirements and find a cheap X61t on ebay (there are tons all the time). I've been using tablet PCs for 4 years in school for engineering and would not go back to pencil and paper unless i needed to for a certain day or class.

quote="loyukfai"]All in all, without knowing exactly what software you'll need to run, while the requirements is quite ambiguous (i5 or i7, that's it...? Has the author compared the slowest i5 and the fastest i7...?), it's better to err on the safe side.[/quote

i bet some ivy bridge core i3 processors are faster than arrandale i5s. these just seem like random "spend all your money" requirements.

Sounds like a good idea, but I'm really looking to be able to have a sort of all-in-one solution. Before I knew the GPU requirements, I figured the X230t would be even better, doubling as a tablet and having the same cpu, IPS, etc. I agree with you on the money too, it costs enough to be there..

What specifically do you use for running CAD software? I'm mostly looking at ThinkPads but I might consider if quality is still good.

Perhaps you could get some of the drawings and ask someone with a X230, or a similar Ivy Bridge model, here or on another forum, to test it for you, as it seems those Autodesk soft is available as trial.

Cheers.

loyukfai wrote:Perhaps you could get some of the drawings and ask someone with a X230, or a similar Ivy Bridge model, here or on another forum, to test it for you, as it seems those Autodesk soft is available as trial.

Cheers.

Good idea. And I've been looking at weights, specifically of the old R40 that I used to haul around quite frequently in a backpack. I brought it on trains, airplanes, cars, anywhere in a backpack, etc. and it didn't really bother me. R40 = 6.8lb + 0.7 (battery) + 0.5ish (AC Adapter) = 8lbs. Travelling with my T400 is probably less than a couple pounds lighter with the 6 cell, 2nd hard drive, dvd drive, and ac adapter. Model details for the W530 say 5.95lbs + 1.7 for ac adapter + about 1.2lbs for the 9 cell. I don't think it would be a problem with a nice backpack. Something to consider..

OT: Why is the W530 heavier than the W520 and the T530? The only thing I can think of is maybe a bigger heatsink? Dimensions aren't far off..

Looking at the W530, upgrading from the K1000M with 96 cuda cores to the K2000M with 192 cuda cores is a $250 upgrade. Is it worth it?

hunterman223 wrote:Sounds like a good idea, but I'm really looking to be able to have a sort of all-in-one solution. Before I knew the GPU requirements, I figured the X230t would be even better, doubling as a tablet and having the same cpu, IPS, etc. I agree with you on the money too, it costs enough to be there..

What specifically do you use for running CAD software? I'm mostly looking at ThinkPads but I might consider if quality is still good.

I used my X61 for autocad. it was slow but usable, it was an intro class so the most complex things we were doing were basic 3D drawings. for reference, in our engineering building all the computers are a dell optiplex 755 with a core 2 duo and radeon HD 2400 pro graphics. no one has complained about slow performance, but the students only use autocad, solidworks, and matlab.

weights for similar computers may be different because of the battery configs. maybe the W530 weight is with the 9-cell while the W520 and T520 weights are with a 6-cell.
here's a discussion on the GPUs for the W530: http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/W-Series-Th ... d-p/767241

if you don't get a computer the school wants you to get, what will they do?

I love using my x220i tablet for school. I am studying engineering so I need more than just typing text like students at law/management etc..
Awesome stuff is also drawing directly to presentation slides/textbook/scriptums. I just "print" them to Onenote and open them during letcure and I highlight important stuff or write down comments etc. I love it! Everybody wants my notes
Also some stuff like math I have completly written down in the tablet - I love using different colors etc.
If you have any other questions just ask

czatlantis wrote:I love using my x220i tablet for school. I am studying engineering so I need more than just typing text like students at law/management etc..
Awesome stuff is also drawing directly to presentation slides/textbook/scriptums. I just "print" them to Onenote and open them during letcure and I highlight important stuff or write down comments etc. I love it! Everybody wants my notes
Also some stuff like math I have completly written down in the tablet - I love using different colors etc.
If you have any other questions just ask

Thanks a lot, that's very helpful. The way you use the tablet functionality is exactly what I am looking for.

I was swaying back and forth between the X230t and the W530 (two very different machines) when I came across the requirements I linked to above. Than I realized that those are for mechanical engineering, which is much more CAD-based. I did some more searching and found plenty of comp engineering students using convertible tablets and loving it. If there is any cad to be done U of M has great computer labs with plenty of power, but I'm not sure that will even be necessary.

My other thought was that with the W530 I could get into some gaming, but the Intel HD 4000 will game better than my current ATI graphics in the T400 and the X230(t) would be a great candidate for an eGPU and a big external display.

I think my mind is set now...

Well, my experience w.r.t. to tablets for note-taking is this:

Before I had my convertible tablets, I hardly take any notes in classes because they're such a hassle to manage / carry (and because everything is in the books). Now I do take (albeit limited) notes because I know the notes will always be with me, whenever I have my computer.

twistero: yeah, exactly!

twistero wrote:Well, my experience w.r.t. to tablets for note-taking is this:

Before I had my convertible tablets, I hardly take any notes in classes because they're such a hassle to manage / carry (and because everything is in the books). Now I do take (albeit limited) notes because I know the notes will always be with me, whenever I have my computer.

That's what I'm thinking, right now I take notes as the writing down part helps me the most, but I rarely go back and look at them because they are difficult to search through and disorganized.

With a convertible tablet + Onenote, I can organize everything into virtual notebooks, sections, and tabs and even search through my handwriting or convert it to text.

Do you use a screen protector? I have been reading and am worried about hard dust etc. on the pen scratching the screen. But I don't want to lose too much image quality or multitouch function. Apparently it doesn't affect the pen at all as it used radio or something..

Regarding screen protectors, here's one that's not updated, but could still be an informative starter...

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2008/08/19 ... t-results/

Personally I've removed mine, but initially there's one; Couldn't really tell the difference with or without the protector on though; A scratch which can be felt during stylus use has since appeared on the screen, but not really that big a deal and probably wasn't due to stylus usage.

BTW, besides the stock red hard tips, there are different tips for the stylus. Google "wacom stylus tips" for more information.

Cheers.

loyukfai wrote:Regarding screen protectors, here's one that's not updated, but could still be an informative starter...

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2008/08/19 ... t-results/

Personally I've removed mine, but initially there's one; Couldn't really tell the difference with or without the protector on though; A scratch which can be felt during stylus use has since appeared on the screen, but not really that big a deal and probably wasn't due to stylus usage.

BTW, besides the stock red hard tips, there are different tips for the stylus. Google "wacom stylus tips" for more information.

Cheers.

Thanks for replying.

It comes from Lenovo with a screen protector fitted? Also, have you personally tried any other types of tip?

Thanks again.

No, I don't use any screen protectors, but I do have the habit of feeling the tip of the stylus with my finger before using it. So far I have yet to encounter anything stuck on the tip, or any scratches to the writing surface, for that matter.

There isn't. It's an aftermarket one I installed myself. One day I just realized computers are more or less consumables and I don't have to keep them pristine all the time. If one should worry, he/she should worry more about health, family, friends, people in need, etc... (going way off-topic)

I concur with twistero, checking the tip in advance would be suffice.

Besides the original plastic nibs (just remembered it should be nibs instead of tips...), I've personally tried the felt nib and the spring-loaded nib. The felt nib gives a more pencil feel. The spring-loaded nib seems to be more suitable for graphic artists, mimicking brushes. Anyway, they cost not much and you can always switch back and forth, only a set of plastic nibs come with the machine though.

Here's a link to the nibs package generally offered: http://www.coolgraphicstuff.com/wacom-g ... za118.html. The top ones are plastic nibs (ThinkPad's come in red), the middle ones are felt nibs and the bottom ones are spring-loaded.

Speaking of which, have you tried OneNote...? It's (IMO) one of the better innovation from Microsoft in the last decade or so, I'm not aware of any other note-taking software that can take advantage of the stylus as much as it could.

Cheers.

Actually, you can get the variety of nibs cheaper by buying an Axiotron digitizer pen. It's a 2-button pen with eraser (while the ThinkPad pen is only 1-button) compatible with all Wacom tablet PCs. This pen and the Axiotron Studio pen are usually regarded as some of the best pens available for tablet PCs.

Thanks again for all the help guys.