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X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

X230 and later series specific matters only
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Edward Mendelson
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X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#1 Post by Edward Mendelson » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:24 pm

I'm very happy with my X201s, but may need to replace it with something more modern before long, and high-resolution screen is essential.

I didn't see much point in the X220/230/240 because of screen and keyboard issues, but the X250 has an option for a high-res screen, and the keyboard looks reasonable at least. Is there anyone here who likes older-model ThinkPads and has experience with the X250? If so, I'd be very grateful for any reports on its quality. Thanks for any help with this.

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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#2 Post by Puppy » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:42 pm

X240 and X250 are almost identical. X240 has also FHD resolution option. Both have more crippled keyboard layout than other models because of missing separate Ins key. When F-keys are locked the End keys becomes Ins. This is supposed to be fixed now https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-T ... rue#M62515 almost two years after the release.

There are known issues with dead motherboard after BIOS update https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-T ... -p/2042284 X250 now officially supports 16 GB RAM by april BIOS update.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#3 Post by ajkula66 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:24 pm

You may want to give B&H a call, they might have it on display at their store (34th St. at 9th Ave).
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#4 Post by Edward Mendelson » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:33 pm

ajkula66 wrote:You may want to give B&H a call, they might have it on display at their store (34th St. at 9th Ave).
Will do. Excellent suggestion.

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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#5 Post by Puppy » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:36 am

Checking the display quality might be tricky. X series IPS displays since X220 have two issues. Image persistence and white spots thats develops in few months.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#6 Post by ZaZ » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:43 am

I never saw either on my X220.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#7 Post by dr_st » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:54 am

ZaZ wrote:I never saw either on my X220.
Perhaps, but enough people did, so as to firmly establish this as a characteristic issue of the model.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#8 Post by 600X » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:59 am

Don't forget the backlight bleeding.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#9 Post by Puppy » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:45 am

Backlight bleeding is typical issue of LED backlight displays. It is just another step down in overall display quality.

I have one of latest X220 (so I expect there is the new revision of the display) and the image persistence is still noticeable but not that excessive as first revision was. It is still reported for X240 FHD IPS display and said it is getting even worse within few weeks. This is typical for notebook LG.Display panels because Apple retina displays have the same issue.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#10 Post by ZaZ » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:14 am

dr_st wrote:Perhaps, but enough people did, so as to firmly establish this as a characteristic issue of the model.
I don't think internet boards posts are basis to draw conclusions. I had two X220 over the course of three yeas and never saw either one. Of course I wasn't looking for it. My point being I don't think it's a forgone conclusion you'll get one or the other or both. I've seen backlight bleed on most notebooks I've used, but usually only when the machine is booting, rarely has it been a problem when using it.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#11 Post by Puppy » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:40 am

ZaZ wrote:I've seen backlight bleed on most notebooks I've used, but usually only when the machine is booting, rarely has it been a problem when using it.
This is caused by Lenovo (and possible other vendor's as well) bug in BIOS that always sets maximum brightness level during boot stage, the desired level is adujsted when Windows are loaded. I have already reported it many times but got answer "no way to get it fixed". Older IBM ThinkPads were able to remember the brightness level even in BIOS. If you compare notebook panels with CCFL and LED backlight on maximum brightness side-by-side the backlight bleed difference is noticeable. No wonder, the cost matters.
Last edited by Puppy on Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#12 Post by dr_st » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:44 am

ZaZ wrote:I don't think internet boards posts are basis to draw conclusions.
What would you use? Have every single unit examined by a trained examiner? That's impossible in practice. As imperfect as the internet forum sampling method is, I think it's better than anything else we have.
ZaZ wrote:My point being I don't think it's a forgone conclusion you'll get one or the other or both.
It's not a guarantee that you will, but you might, with somewhat higher probability than on other models. That's what a "characteristic issue" means.

Nobody says, for example, that all T61 nVidia boards will experience GPU failure, or that all T60 15" magnesium frames will crack, but the issues have come up enough times to be considered a common and probable flaw of these models.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#13 Post by Pokrzept » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:02 am

Puppy wrote:Backlight bleeding is typical issue of LED backlight displays. It is just another step down in overall display quality.
[...]This is typical for notebook LG.Display panels because Apple retina displays have the same issue.
DO NOT SAY THAT ON LOUD, such a words can get you killed by some fanatic. :banana:
PS. Sorry for off-topic but couldn't resist.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#14 Post by Puppy » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:51 am

Puppy wrote:Backlight bleeding is typical issue of LED backlight displays.
Check this review Display section :roll:
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#15 Post by 600X » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:52 am

Puppy wrote:Backlight bleeding is typical issue of LED backlight displays. It is just another step down in overall display quality.
Not really, the problem is most profound on LG IPS display. A regular TN LED display does not have backlight bleeding. You are correct however that it is simply a problem with ever-decreasing quality. But what can you expect with the price-races these days.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#16 Post by Puppy » Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:14 pm

600X wrote:Not really, the problem is most profound on LG IPS display. A regular TN LED display does not have backlight bleeding.
The one on the link is CMN. My parent's E540 HD display is TN with LED backlight and the bleed is also horrible. Hunting for slim display lid is part of the issue.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#17 Post by 600X » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:57 am

Puppy wrote:
600X wrote:Not really, the problem is most profound on LG IPS display. A regular TN LED display does not have backlight bleeding.
The one on the link is CMN. My parent's E540 HD display is TN with LED backlight and the bleed is also horrible. Hunting for slim display lid is part of the issue.
I bet that what you can see are just the bad viewing angles combined with the high black levels. I've seen the E540 HD dislay myself and it had no backlight bleeding whatsoever.
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#18 Post by pipspeak » Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:21 pm

Puppy wrote:I have one of latest X220 (so I expect there is the new revision of the display) and the image persistence is still noticeable but not that excessive as first revision was. It is still reported for X240 FHD IPS display and said it is getting even worse within few weeks. This is typical for notebook LG.Display panels because Apple retina displays have the same issue.
Image persistence/ghosting is my biggest gripe with the x240 (I have FHD Touch). Even more so than the trackpad. Is the ghosting issue still a problem with the x250 FHD displays?
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#19 Post by Puppy » Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:14 pm

pipspeak wrote:Is the ghosting issue still a problem with the x250 FHD displays?
Lenovo claim there is new revision of the X240 panel that fixes the issue. Personally I don't believe that since the issue had appeared for X220 first, why is not fixed by default in next series ? All of this is about cutting costs :( LG has overdo it. You can also notice that despite of the panel is IPS family there is noticeable brighthess drop when viewing angle is about 45 degree horizontally. This is result of another cost-saving attempt to improve panel maximum brightness on direct view (only) while saving on polarizers quality/layers and backlight luminance. Crap, crap, crap ... :(
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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#20 Post by stgreek » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:42 am

I am in the same position, and seriously considering an X250 as a replacement for my little beauty of an X200s.

Having seen the X230/40/50 (my wife uses an X230), the only advise I can give you is to skip the X240. The screen is underwhelming (could be the particular model), but most important, and not mentioned earlier in the thread: It uses the horrible horrible "buttons-that-are-not-real-buttons-but touchpad-area". Lenovo itself admitted that it was so bad they had to change it in the X250.

That said, the X230 is a pretty nice machine (she has the normal res IPS screen), and it is pretty cheap these days, being already 2 gens old, so unless you need the high-res IPS of the X250 (in which case I'd just go for the wonderful T450s) go for it.

Regarding build quality, the thinner they are the flimsier they are, so do not expect X200s quality on them. The X200s has actually surprised me, after the X60/61 PCMCIA crack issue (that all my X6x exhibited at some point) I expected not too much of it but been using one as a network admin machine for almost a decade and it holds up very very well indeed. Reminds me of my trusty old X31 that also lasted more than a decade. If the X230 lasts half as long (my wife's one has been on 24/7 for about 3 years now), I think I'll go for it next.

**edit** by X201s, meant X200s. The Core2Duo/WXGA+ one.
760XL, 560, 560E, 570, 600, 600E, 600X, T20, T21, T23, T40, T41p, T42, X20, X23, X24, X31, X60s, X60T, X200s. I should *really* get a cheaper hobby...

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Re: X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s?

#21 Post by Edward Mendelson » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:55 am

Thanks for this. I ordered an X250 for my wife as a Christmas present, and it's due to arrive tomorrow, so I'll have a better sense then of how it compares to the X201s. Right now, my wife and I both use X200s models with X201s motherboards, which seems like an excellent combination (and cheaper than the rare X201s). The only inconvenience is that the wireless sometimes switches off seemingly by itself, and I've never seen a solution.

I'll report back when I've had a chance to work with the X250.

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