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Battery purchase for W530: lenovo vs the world

W530/W540/W550 series specific matters only
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xelonakias
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Battery purchase for W530: lenovo vs the world

#1 Post by xelonakias » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:58 am

Hello,
I wanted opinions on this.
I can get a new battery for the W530, the 70++ one, 7950 mAh, not the slice battery.
Now, there are both Green cells models available for nominal capacities ranging from 6800 to 8900 mAh, and the option to get an original UNUSED lenovo one.
Issues are financial.
The "original" lenovo goes for 100 euros, while other OEM manufacturers sell from 40 to 80 euros.
I intend to use these on a W530 with win 10 on it and 32 GB ram, without LTE / GSM connectivity, but I wager I will NOT get 11 hours of use out of any cell, not with win 10 in any case.
Now, do you think I should buy a lenovo battery, or shelf life will have it depleted / damaged to a 1/3 of its effective capacity, so a cheaper one will avail me to more / on par performance?
Is it worth to spend money to get a lenovo branded one or will it be a waste of money?
I have the experience of a X61 (older lenovo-still IBM flavoured) with a replacement battery of 4400 mAh that with win 10 gives a mere 2 hours tops on full use, while on win Vista it should give 5 hours for that capacity (battery capacity was tested)...
So opinions?
Thanks

atagunov
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Re: Battery purchase for W530: lenovo vs the world

#2 Post by atagunov » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:24 am

Hi I have been advertising my experience with a KingSener battery from AliExpress on my X220 this year. I have had it since January. It's a 6-cell so up to 3-4 hours runtime. I'm a Linux (Ubuntu) user. I have been saying it was all totally fine. In the name of honesty I need to amend my prior statements somewhat. Yes it's still working okay and I will continue running X220 on it. However a few days ago I did observe the following:

- I switch on, it shows somewhere between 20% and 30% and estimates remaining time as 1 hour 20 mins
- Hmm I think, that's a bit too optimistic
- Then in about 10 minutes I'm on 5% and then soon there is a forced power off.

Well I should have had lots more than 10 mins even on 20%, and I was just reading a mostly static page in Firefox.

I had seen that before on this battery. I had seen it before on a battery which I think is a used genuine one too. This was exactly what prompted me to buy a replacement for that batt. At one time I thought that this behaviour was due to me using stop charging threshold in TLP. E.g. by not charging the battery fully. I was doing that to prolong battery life. Okay I switched that threshold now set to 100%. This means that I started to always charge to a full capacity a few months back. I discharge pretty low too before going on a charge. But still I observed this tanking after 30% I just talked about. It didn't help. So there you have it - the battery works, the runtime is reasonable (though I haven't measured precisely lately), I will continue using it but there's little confidence in it once it reaches 30%..

Other people had reported only positive experiences with KingSener batts.. This might be the first somewhat negative opinion on the internet :)

P.S. these batts cost around £30 delivered to the UK overall and take around 3 weeks to arrive.
Last edited by atagunov on Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
X220, 2 *T520

atagunov
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Re: Battery purchase for W530: lenovo vs the world

#3 Post by atagunov » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:36 am

xelonakias wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:58 am
The "original" lenovo goes for 100 euros, while other OEM manufacturers sell from 40 to 80 euros.
I'd say EUR 100 would feel a bit too expensive for me to buy one myself (and I have T520-s along this X220, so virtually same batt as the one you're eyeing). EUR 80 for an aftermarket also looks a bit high compared to £30 for KingSener.. On the other hand we have one forum member from Greece positing who said that he can buy from shops in Greece that happily take the batteries back if he finds they are not functioning in a satisfactory fashion (a year or warranty). That's probably not bad either? Do you have access to such shops? Obviously with a KingSener on AliExpress there's virtually no way back :) It seems that GreenCell is another aftermerket brand that is comparable with KingSener. Could even be better is it has been around for longer :) A working moneyback would be very nice for batteries..

I'm interested in what other people on the forum think about the price for genuine batteries. There is an opinion that especially Panasonic-made genuine batteries may last very long. I don't know what the situation is in Windows land but under Linux it's "sudo tlp-stat -b" to learn what the battery is advertising itself as. You learn if it says it's a Sanyo or possibly a Panasonic. You also learn what the battery thinks its remaining capacity is. Unfortunately I don't know how to differentiate between a genuine Sanyo and a genuine Panasonic without using "tlp-stat -b"
Last edited by atagunov on Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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xelonakias
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Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Battery purchase for W530: lenovo vs the world

#4 Post by xelonakias » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:20 am

atagunov wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:36 am
xelonakias wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:58 am
The "original" lenovo goes for 100 euros, while other OEM manufacturers sell from 40 to 80 euros.
I'd say EUR 100 would feel a bit too expensive for me to buy one myself (and I have T520-s along this X220, so virtually same batt as the one you're eyeing). EUR 80 for an aftermarket also looks a bit high compared to £30 for KingSener.. On the other hand we have one forum member from Greece positing on this forum who said that he can buy from shops in Greece that happily take the batteries back if he finds they are not functioning in a satisfactory fashion (a year or warranty). That's probably not bad either? Do you have access to such shops?

I'm interested in what other people on the forum think about the price for genuine batteries. There is an opinion that especially Panasonic-made genuine batteries may last very long. I don't know what the situation is in Windows land but under Linux it's "sudo tlp-stat -b" to learn what the battery is advertising itself as. You learn if it says it's a Sanyo or possibly a Panasonic. You also learn what the battery thinks its remaining capacity is. Unfortunately I don't know how to differentiate between a genuine Sanyo and a genuine Panasonic without using "tlp-stat -b"
Actually I was the one posting from Greece. My question has to do more with general build quality. Lenovo or IBM usually used also EEPROMS to regulate their cells and I was thinking maybe the EEPROM did more than cell quality in usable capacity. Mind you, members that indulged into rebuilding batteries and cell swapping were able to get really a lot more 75%-200% more out of a build when they also tweaked the EEPROM's programming. (It was somewhere on the W530 section I think).
I have access to the shops I mentioned, and I can also get a battery rebuilt, I just wanted to inquire whether it could be worth the while. Money-wise, buying two batteries for 40 euros piece to get 6 hours of work versus paying 90 euros to get 7 hours out of only one battery to lug around sounds worth it to me.
Real question I guess is, whether win 10 or linux can get the same battery life as a win 7( without all the networking services galore ), or am I wasting my time to research it?

atagunov
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Re: Battery purchase for W530: lenovo vs the world

#5 Post by atagunov » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:23 am

xelonakias wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:20 am
Actually I was the one posting from Greece
Apologies I've made a proper fool of myself :lol:
X220, 2 *T520

atagunov
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Re: Battery purchase for W530: lenovo vs the world

#6 Post by atagunov » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:32 am

xelonakias wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:20 am
members that indulged into rebuilding batteries and cell swapping were able to get really a lot more 75%-200% more out of a build when they also tweaked the EEPROM's programming
200% more? Hmm... I was under impression the best 18650 cells advertised were rated at 3500mAh per cell compared to around 2700mAh which seem to have been used originally by suppliers of genuine Lenovo-branded batteries. That's just 29% more.. I also know that in some cases it's possible to tell the controller in the battery being rebuilt, hey, you actually now have 29% more capacity. But 75%?? Let alone 200%? Okay if you compare to a nearly dead battery it could have been 10000% I guess, but comparing to design capacity of genuine batteries?..
xelonakias wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:20 am
Real question I guess is, whether win 10 or linux can get the same battery life as a win 7( without all the networking services galore ), or am I wasting my time to research it?
I have never had a chance to compare against Win 7 but my impression was Ubuntu with TLP is half-decent. I was able to get 4 hours out of X220 with Ubuntu/TLP watching youtube in Firefox over WiFi on a fresh (KingSener) 6-cell fully charged. Think CPU may have been limited to 60% or 70% of max performance. Don't know how that compares to Win 7.
xelonakias wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:20 am
I have access to the shops I mentioned, and I can also get a battery rebuilt, I just wanted to inquire whether it could be worth the while. Money-wise, buying two batteries for 40 euros piece to get 6 hours of work versus paying 90 euros to get 7 hours out of only one battery to lug around sounds worth it to me.
I'd expect a properly rebuilt battery might serve you quite well. If you trust the rebuilder you can be sure what cells are in there. And if the controller board survives the ordeal - well I don't see a reason to treat it as suspect. Of course it has to be done by a trustworthy craftsman. Shorting the fuse for example would be an unacceptable hack.. Two caveats are: are they able to close it nicely and tightly? E.g. will it not look bad/fall apart/be prone to liquid more? And if it will be allowed on a flight with obvious signs of interference.
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TinkerMan
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Re: Battery purchase for W530: lenovo vs the world

#7 Post by TinkerMan » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:43 pm

The original W530 , made by LGC was good for 300 cycles at nearly full capacity, after 300 it started to lose capacity, and it lost capacity until about 500 cycles, after which it became problematic when not plugged in, it wouldnt hold the charge anymore. At this point I bought a new one from lenovo site, this was even better than the first one, also LGC, it was ok for about 400 cycles, after which it began degrading slowly until 600 cycles when it became progressively worse, at 650 cycles i decided to buy a new one, but this time I didnt buy original, because of the price, worst move ever, the non original was a fire hazard, it would get so hot while charging that after 5 minutes I had to remove it. so i continued to use the old second battery, Now I am at 800 cycles, it stands at half the initial design capacity, but when it gets to about 50% it losses charge very fast, so still kind of usable for short periods, but when I use the laptop its basically a desktop with some limited off socket range.
My advice, go with original LGC 9 cell units, they may be twice the price, but they are well worth it.
W530, 3840QM, 32GB, K2000M
P1, XEON 2176, 32GB ECC, P2000, IPS
X230, 3320M, 16GB, HD4000, IPS
T601F X9000, 8GB, X3100, UXGA FlexView 1600x1200
T61 14" 4:3, T9500, 8GB, NVS140M
T60 14" 4:3, T7600, 3GB, GMA950
P71, 7700HQ, 16GB, P600, IPS
X201, 520M, 8GB, SSD, W10
R61i, T430s, T43p

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