Thinkpads Forum

I ordered a W530 on Black Friday. Decent config (3720QM up to 3.6ghz quad,24GB RAM,dual 500GB HDD's,1600x900 resolution,K1000 graphics). I have not received it, but I'm already pre-hating the box. I admit I didn't do enough research before ordering. My concerns are:
1. Chiclet KB....really??? (yeah, I'm the last one to learn about this)
2.Smaller screen vertically.
3. No forward/back keys....really??
4. No 7th row.
5. No spaces/groups between Function keys.
6. Function keys not well labeled visibly.
7. Power brick the size of a SmartCar.
8. W500 accessories not interchangable (battery, AC adapter, dock).
9. Far fewer LED status icons (no CapsLock???)

I think that's all I've discovered so far. I am moving my W500 to an emercency role. It has been a good box (amazing I can say that given it is on its 3rd MOBO, had Wi-Fi antennae delivered physically broken from factory, hinge broke, now bezel is separating,on 3rd set of rubber "feet",logo came off,).

I have owned Thinkpads for 20 years. Always been loyal (except for one Dell which was absolute crap). I was hopeful when Lenovo took over and have tried to be faithful and adaptable. I'm now finally having doubts...the keyboard change may be the last straw. The build quality just isn't as good as "the good old days", and the design seems to keep moving further away from what I have always loved, stuck with, and paid a premium for.

Before this I have owned T41, T42, T43, T60, T61, W500. (I've owned more but that's the last 10 year's worth of history)

Yes this is a basic rant...but are there any W530 owners out there with similar background who are happy with their W530? Or am I just being inflexible? (I know...I don't even have it yet).

Thanks in advance...I'd like to know if others have been able to overcome some of the drastic changes to a proven winning design and feel the same re: build quality/longevity.

Since most of your concerns are with the keyboard go with a W520 with the prior gen 7 row keyboard. You won't be disappointed.

Brad

Brad wrote:Since most of your concerns are with the keyboard go with a W520 with the prior gen 7 row keyboard. You won't be disappointed.

Brad

+ 1 here...

Agreed, my W520 from work is a fine, fine machine. If I wanted a 15.6 inch laptop at home, I'd have no issues with buying a W520.

Thank you for your responses. Since nobody stepped to defend their W530, I have to assume that this machine is not well received, probably for many of the concerns I have listed.

Since Lenovo is no longer selling the W520, what is the best source for one? I generally purchase 3 yr on-site extended warranty, so for me, refurb models are not an option as the 3r party warranty providers don't seem to write contracts for them.

Thanks again for your thoughts/assistance...Jeff

Bunch of new ones still available on feebay...including this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad ... 5d3672591f

I'd call J&R and see what other configurations they have available...since this is HD+ which would not be my preferred choice if I were buying a W520...

Good luck.

Go with the W520 if you want a good keyboard with the right layout
So did I

Also note that the W530 is only marginally faster

And note that all the videocards of the W520/W530 (1000M, 2000M, K1000M, K2000M) use the same, slow memory.

The W530 also lacks the eSata port

Thanks jcv. I just unboxed the W530 today...and...I don't think I can live with it. All of the issues I noted are cumulatively a deal-killer for me. It's just not a Thinkpad. I think I can return it and probably only be out the freight. I will start looking for a good W520 and hope that I can get a decent 3-year on-site warranty. I'm so disappointed!

TPBigot wrote:Thanks jcv. I just unboxed the W530 today...and...I don't think I can live with it. All of the issues I noted are cumulatively a deal-killer for me. It's just not a Thinkpad. I think I can return it and probably only be out the freight. I will start looking for a good W520 and hope that I can get a decent 3-year on-site warranty. I'm so disappointed!

You've given it a fair shot.

Actually paid for it, with the best of intentions.

My hat's off to you. Seriously.

May the return procedure for that poor unloved laptop be a smooth one.

I believe that you've got three weeks to return it and that you might have to eat a restocking fee.

Call Lenovo - sooner the better - and initiate the return.

Good luck and keep us posted.

TPBigot wrote:are there any W530 owners out there with similar background who are happy with their W530? Or am I just being inflexible? (I know...I don't even have it yet).

I can't speak to the W530, but I've used both the X230 and T430. Both are solid well built machines in my opinion, as good as other ThinkPads I've used. I think from an actual typing perspective, the new chiclet keyboard is very good. It's firm with good pitch. If the new layout has you irked, there's nothing that can be done about it. You can stave it off for a while with the W520, but eventually have to adapt.

ZaZ wrote:If the new layout has you irked, there's nothing that can be done about it. You can stave it off for a while with the W520, but eventually have to adapt.

Assuming they don't change it again

I ordered a W530 yesterday from Lenovo. 20% off sale. I'm hoping I can cope with the keyboard.

Tim-ANC wrote:I ordered a W530 yesterday from Lenovo. 20% off sale. I'm hoping I can cope with the keyboard.

BIGSAVINGS? Yeah same

ZaZ wrote: I can't speak to the W530, but I've used both the X230 and T430. Both are solid well built machines in my opinion, as good as other ThinkPads I've used. I think from an actual typing perspective, the new chiclet keyboard is very good. It's firm with good pitch. If the new layout has you irked, there's nothing that can be done about it. You can stave it off for a while with the W520, but eventually have to adapt.

Eventually I hope to be in a situation where I don't need a laptop.

If enough people reject the *30 series for the bad keyboard layout, Lenovo might adapt to us... As of yet, I've heard _nobody_ wanting a *30 for the keyboard layout, while a lot of people have opted for a *20 over the *30 because of the keyboard layout.

I just dropped off the W530 at the UPS Store. I ordered a W520, and it arrived last week. I was able to spend a little time
reviewing both boxes (plus my existing W500) side-by-side. Here are my observations:

1. Keyboard. This was/is my biggest issue. After trying both keyboards, I am able to say that the chiclet-style keyboard
FEEL on the W530 is actually pretty darned good. I was very surprised. I could have adjusted to it, and it wouldn't have
been that bad. But...the layout and missing keys were a deal-breaker for me. The adjustment would have been too much, and with no payback. I used the Fwd/Bkwd keys very frequently, and I would have missed the 7th row. Plus, the placement of some of the other keys just made no sense. Lastly, the lack of clear labelling on the "F" keys, along wiht the missing gap that groups them F1-F4, F5-F8, etc. added effort to ensure you had the proper key without studying. I use the F-key row daily.

2. Screen. Both W520 and W530 have the same LED panel size. While they are both 1/2" wider, they are also 1/2" shorter than my W500. I am going to miss the 1/2" vertial, and not sure I will care to gain 1/2" hporizontal. This new screen just seems very short vertically. I am not looking forward to PgUp/PgDwn on screens where I didn't have to before. On the plus side, the screen is the best screen I have ever had on a Thinkpad from a color/crispness standpoint. My W500 is 1920x1080, so is the W520. The W520 is clearly better. The W530 was 1600x800, and was not quite as good as the W520.

3. Power brick. Both models have the huge 170W power brick. That's going to be difficult to get used to.

4. Audio. I had read that the W520's audio was weak, but I wasn't prepared for how bad it is. It is pitiful. Side by
side, the W500 and W530 were vastly superior. I am not looking forward to this aspect of the W520.

5. The W520 has an eStata port. I'm not sure I care.

6. The W530 had a mini-DisplayPort, the W520 has a regular-size DisplayPort. I can't think of a reason why I would care except that I already had a regular cable, and I had purchased a mini when I ordered the W530. Now I don't need the mini. Oh well.

7. The W530 had 6300 wifi, the W520 has 6205. I don't have a 3-antennae router, so as far as I know I won't care.

I have to say this was really a tough decision. I really struggled to really put the W530 back in the box and return it. I
was kind of looking forward to the RAID1 setup, I've never had that "luxury" before. Also, the W530 had a slightly faster
chip. But...in the end, the keyboard layout changes were significant enough for me to reject the W530. There just weren't
any positive reasons or payback to justify the changes. If they do not offer a better KB layout when I am ready for my next
laptop purchase (probably 3 years), I will have to look elsewhere. But...where? Thanks for the comments and thoughts.

TPBigot wrote:My W500 is 1920x1080, so is the W520. The W520 is clearly better. The W530 was 1600x800,

Actually, your W500 is 1920x1200, which is better than the W520's 1920x1080 (actually a HUGE difference in my opinion), which is way better than the W530's 1600x900 (not 1600x800).

TPBigot wrote:I have to say this was really a tough decision. I really struggled to really put the W530 back in the box and return it.

It shouldn't have been that tough. If I were you, I too would have exchanged the W530 with the W520 for the better resolution alone, plus the keyboard layout. 1600x900 on a 15.6" screen is a joke. Of course I am aware that most budget 15.6" laptops only have 1366x768 -- such an abysmal resolution is suitable only for playing Solitaire IMO.

TPBigot wrote:If they do not offer a better KB layout when I am ready for my next
laptop purchase (probably 3 years), I will have to look elsewhere. But...where?

I know you had a terrible experience with a Dell before but some of Dell Business's Latitude and Precision laptops are actually quite good. Besides the Nvidia fiasco that hit most Dell laptops (versus only the T61 for Lenovo) between 2007 and 2010, a major problem with Dell is that they change their laptop designs so frequently and so dramatically that the risk of introducing bad designs is high. By contrast, Thinkpads stick with most (but unfortunately not all) of the designs that have stood the test of time, and so it is usually safer to buy a Thinkpad than a Latitude or Precision. But if you do adequate research before buying, there are excellent Dell Business laptops out there. I owned 45 Thinkpads from 2002 to 2010 and have to say that I like my current Dell Latitude E4200 more than the vast majority of those Thinkpads. It's lighter than all Thinkpads ever made, it looks quite attractive, its keyboard is superb, and it has business-class durability -- last week I accidentally dropped it VERY forcefully onto a hard surface and it showed absolutely no sign of damage. HP Business's Elitebooks would also be worth looking into. The ultimate business-class laptops would of course be Panasonic's Toughbooks, although they are very pricey and the best models are sold only in Japan.

Thanks for your comments, and your catch/corrections re: resolution. You were correct about the W500 being 1920x1200 and the W530 being 1600x900. I only chose the 1600x900 on the W530 because it was a $200+ bump. I feel better about my choice already. I will give Dell a 2nd look next time. Despite my bad experience, I do have colleagues who are perfectly happy with their Dells. I've just always been happy enough with my TP's not to be tempted to switch, until this keyboard debacle.

pianowizard wrote:actually a HUGE difference in my opinion

Three lines on a typical internet page is huge?

If I lose 3 lines due to resolution...how many more do I lose because of the 1/2" reduction in physical LCD panel vertical size between the W500 and the W520?

None. As long as the resolution remains the same, what's displayed on the screen is identical, regardless of the size of the screen.

But the image will be reduced...and text will be smaller, making it harder to read. I am guessing I will likely have to compensate by making the text larger, which WILL reduce the # of lines. Correct?

ZaZ wrote:Three lines on a typical internet page is huge?

Sounds like you haven't actually compared viewing the same web page on 1920x1200 versus 1920x1080 -- this is not a criticism because few people would bother to do something so silly. I am sitting in front of one of my Dell 2407WFP monitors, and just now I compared how many lines of TPBigot's opening post in this thread were visible when this monitor was set to WUXGA, and then when it was reduced to FHD. The difference was 6.5 lines, which to me is significant. In addition, WUXGA is just tall enough to allow virtually all PDF files to be viewed full-page at 100%, whereas if I want to view these files full-page on FHD, they need to be shrunk to 90 to 95% which often reduces text quality and makes them less comfortable to view.

TPBigot wrote:If I lose 3 lines due to resolution...how many more do I lose because of the 1/2" reduction in physical LCD panel vertical size between the W500 and the W520?

Why don't you try it for yourself. View this thread on both your W500 and your W520, and you should see 6.5 more lines on the former than on the latter.

The screens on the W530 and W520 are basically the same if you choose the same high resolution? they can both come with 1920x1080.

I personally love my W530 - see my response at the bottom of here:- http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 6&start=30

It is unfortunate that you chose a lower resolution on the W530 as it would be too low for me too. A colleague of mine is suffering from the dreaded random sudden reboots that several W520 owners have reported but not had resolved.

Displayport size, it just seems that most of the manufacturers have moved to mini-displayport. Not entirely sure why but most cables and peripherals are geared up for mini-dp these days.