Thinkpads Forum

Hello,

Has anyone tried powering 2* 4k monitors from their w530 + 433835U MiniDock Plus (via DP)?

I have a w530 with nvidia k2000m, and looking to purchase 2x VP2780-4k. Google shows that its certainly possible to power one, but I've not found anywhere with definitive evidence confirming if it can power two via the two DP ports at the same time.

Thanks!
t

As far as I know, it isn't possible to use a 4K monitor with 60Hz via the DisplayPort of the docking station, instead you have to use the Mini DisplayPort of the device itself.

Therefore, you are only able to use one of them because even though the Mini DisplayPort of the W530 itself would support Daisy Chaining, it is only possible to use one 3840x2160 screen at 60Hz with the DisplayPort 1.2 bandwith (see http://www.displayport.org/cables/drivi ... rt-output/).

yes i run this with my W530 and 2 external 4K Lenovo LCD.

lead_org wrote:i run this with my W530 and 2 external 4K Lenovo LCD.

You run both of them at a refresh rate of 60Hz?

thanks lead_org / fb1996,

i know that nvidia k2100m (in a previous w540, which i dont have anymore) supports MST (multi-stream transport), suggesting that it would be able to support DP daisy chaining. *however*, i think was under the impression that the k2000m (in the w530 - laptop in question) does not. this is not to say that it's not possible to do dual 4k off k2000m via the minidock plus.

@fb1996 - i would be extremely grateful if you can confirm that you are running 2 x 3840 x 2160 @60Hz! also, have you encountered any issues at 2x4k (internet seems to suggest that certain drivers might struggle)?

tian

lead_org wrote:yes i run this with my W530 and 2 external 4K Lenovo LCD.

Hi Lead, can you confirm that you are running them @ 60Hz?

i am not in Australia right now, so i can't post screenshot. I run my W530 with 2 x Pro2840m LCD at 60 hz. If you can wait till next month, i can post a screenshot for you.

lead_org wrote:i am not in Australia right now, so i can't post screenshot. I run my W530 with 2 x Pro2840m LCD at 60 hz. If you can wait till next month, i can post a screenshot for you.

I'll take your word for it Just wanted to be sure that you weren't running them @ 30Hz.
Any idea if single-stream vs dual-stream would make any difference in this setup?
On a side note, I am told that only the displayports on the dock will run in 4K and NOT the DVI (this might be common knowledge)
I am gonna go for a dock this week and hope for the best. thanks

Hello,

I ordered 2x VP2780-4k, of which the first arrived last night.

For me, I could not get the displays to work correctly via the DP ports via the 433835U dock. nVidia control panel only shows full 4k (3840x2160) @ 30Hz, however at this setting, the screen occasionally flickers black - there was no 60Hz option for me. I do not have a miniDP cable to test the display directly from the w530. The display otherwise is stable when set at a slightly lower resolution.

Configuration
* I have a w530 with k2000m;
* The 433835U dock is powered by the 170 watt adapter;
* Display seems stable when running at a lower resolution;
* I am using the latest nVidia driver - 353.82 on Windows 8.1 x86_64

Note
1. There is a chance that I have a dud display - I will retry when the second unit arrives later today;
2. There is a chance that the DP cable shipped in the box is faulty (hence the flickering) - I will try with a different cable;
3. There is a chance that I have a faulty w530 (unlikely - I've been using it for 2 years now)


Has anyone had any success running dual WQHD (2560x1440) @ 60Hz from W530 + dock?

t

Didn't get a chance to test the 4K output from my dock yet as I am waiting a bit before pulling the trigger on 1 or 2 BenQ BL3201.
Hoping that euro will catch up with the Dollar again soon
Keep us updated on the progress!

You should try several different drivers. 4K monitors are such bleeding-edge technologies that even though your graphics card supports it, some drivers might not. My Dell OptiPlex 9010 and HP 8300 Elite are both driving 4K monitors, but Windows 10's latest Intel HD drivers gave me only 2560x1440. I had to manually install Dell's and HP's older drivers to achieve 3840x2160. In other words, the newest drivers might not be the best.

That being said, I have an additional recommendation for you:

tian wrote:I ordered 2x VP2780-4k, of which the first arrived last night...Has anyone had any success running dual WQHD (2560x1440) @ 60Hz from W530 + dock?

If you plan on using your internal 1920x1080 screen and the external monitors concurrently, you would need to scale the internal and external monitors separately because 4k on 27" gives an insanely high pixel density. I tried that recently, with 100% scaling on a low-DPI monitor and 150% on a high-DPI monitor, and the result was awful. You would be better off using two 2560x1440 monitors, and scale all screens at 100%. Also keep in mind that 25" and 24" monitors with this resolution started to appear recently, so you don't necessarily need to get 27-inchers.

thanks pianowizard,

if the dual 4k set up was working, i would probably not need the extra HD from the built in monitor

trying to shoehorn w530 to drive 2 4k screens does feel like a lost cause. it sounds like an awesome set up, however, realistically the options are:

(1) return the screens with two WQHD displays and hope that i dont have a faulty w530;
(2) keep the 4Ks and get a new desktop (?!)

it's unfortunate really - on one hand, 2x WQHD would be "more than enough" for photo editing, however it does feel wrong to be making a large investment on "previous-gen" displays right now.

quick google for W520 multi monitor shows up this: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/migr-76767 which implies that the w530 (with the same k2000m) card should be able to power dual WQHD via the dock.

tian

tian wrote:it's unfortunate really - on one hand, 2x WQHD would be "more than enough" for photo editing, however it does feel wrong to be making a large investment on "previous-gen" displays right now.

I also often find myself itching to try new technologies, e.g. I bought one of the earliest 2560x1440 monitors (Dell U2711) when a used unit still cost over $800.

If 2560x1440 feels too old, and if 3840x2160 struggles to work, have you looked into 3440x1440? This resolution is newer than both 2560x1440 and 4k, and might be low enough for your W530 to drive two comfortably. Besides, those 34" curved monitors look stunning. As I type this, I am surrounded by my Dell U2711, HP ZR2740w (also 27" 2560x1440) and CrossOver 404K (39.5" 3840x2160) -- see here for a photo of this setup: http://www.thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52525 . It's an amazing sight, but I can imagine that being surrounded by two of those curved 34-inchers would be even more awesome!

Just an update,

Having unpacked the second 2780-4k, I can confirm that the first display is a dud. I have swapped ports, cables and display modes and throughout, the second unit does not exhibit the flashing whilst the first unit consistently flashes.

I can now confirm that I am able to power the built-in LCD with a 4K display at full resolution at 30 Hz and it appears somewhat stable.

Note:
(1) I am unable to enable 60 Hz via the mini-dock;
(2) Technically, until a replacement unit arrives, cannot confirm that I am able to power 2x 4K at 30 Hz.
(3) Be advised that watching youtube 4k at 30 Hz gave my wife and myself a headache after 5 minutes - your mileage may vary.
(4) Not sure why, but Windows 8.1 x64 seem to get into a confused state over window positioning.

For those considering a long-term investment, a compromise might be to: purchase the 4K displays and run them at WQHD resolution @ 60 Hz. For me at least, there is a good chance that the display will outlast my W530, by which time almost all PCs should support 4K...


@Pianowizard: good suggestions, but unfortunately I really dont get on with the "super wides". I used to have a U2711 at work, and requested to downgrade to a single 20" instead (for coding it's great for some, less so for others!). I am looking to use the displays mainly for photography, so the sRGB / adobe color coverage would also be useful (good example - see my second choice: http://www.viewsonic.com/us/vp2772.html, which is currently out of stock - I traded higher resolution with the 2780-4k for less colour).

Hope this helps,
Tian

hello,

to close the loop on this "adventure" - i have finally got dual uhd (4k is actually 4096x2160, whereas uhd is 3840x2160) monitors "kinda" running with my w530. hope this post helps someone else who might be thinking to do the same.

limitation: do not use the dock
the MST hub (component responsible for multiplexing the displayport connection) in the 433835U seems to be faulty / or i suspect, was never designed to support uhd. i suspect the latter as a google for 433830U (the predecessor, which apparently only differs via lack of USB3) only supports 2x 2560 x 1600 (see: https://support.lenovo.com/ca/en/documents/migr-76767).

side note: when i tried to use display port on the 433835U, i experienced problems similar to the Intel RMC 1.5.0.0 problem (see: https://communities.intel.com/thread/30 ... 5&tstart=0), which i do not believe is the cause. i have disabled dual channel by removing all except RAM in DIMM1 and the issue still persists. i would not suggest going down this rabbit hole.

limitations: output limited to 30Hz
as my displays do not support chaining (i guess not many DP1.2a uhds would), i have gone with an external MST hub (amazon "mst hub" for examples). due to the limitations of DP1.2a, it is not possible for dual uhd at 60Hz - anyone suggesting this is possible either is mistaken, or has a non-compliant DP1.2a implementation. examples of what resolutions / display rates are possible over DP1.2a is provided in the startech page here (http://www.startech.com/uk/AV/Displaypo ... STMDP122DP).

depending on what you are doing, 30Hz isnt the end of the world. i'd imagine that it's not a big deal for coding, but it might be more annoying for graphics work (e.g. photoshop + wacom).

side note: the displayport mini on the W530 chassis does allow for a single uhd at 60Hz.

limitations: w530 runs hot
my w530 runs noticeable hotter in this configuration - possibly because the k2000m is always on. not quite sure what this means (if anything) in the long term.

setup
tested with Windows 8.1 Pro x64 and Windows 10 Pro x64:
- running from startech DP1.2a MST hub connected to the w530 miniDP out;
- fought with windows to enable both displays - had to force first display into 30Hz mode and then force both displays to uhd via nVidia control panel;
- had to fight with windows to position the panels correctly - for some reason mouse cursor becomes misaligned (had to reboot);

note: for me, there are some strangeness around display config dialogue. to get things working, I had to first plug in a single uhd, force display to "external output only" (via windows+p), change refresh rate to 30Hz and then plug in the second uhd. pluging both displays in at once forces the system into an endless cycle of blinking - presumably due to windows trying to initialise both displays to 60Hz native mode.

btw - 2x uhd results in a crazy amount of "workspace". dpi at 27" is sufficiently high to make text a little difficult to read.

your mileage may vary,
tian

p.s. tested the same setup with a company issued X240. it "just works" - windows automatically detected the MST over the miniDP port and presented 2x uhd @ 30Hz.

p.p.s. managed to output 2x uhd @ 45Hz, which is noticibly better than 30Hz.

tian wrote:thanks pianowizard,

if the dual 4k set up was working, i would probably not need the extra HD from the built in monitor

trying to shoehorn w530 to drive 2 4k screens does feel like a lost cause. it sounds like an awesome set up, however, realistically the options are:

(1) return the screens with two WQHD displays and hope that i dont have a faulty w530;
(2) keep the 4Ks and get a new desktop (?!)

If you don't need a laptop; definitely get a desktop. Gone with small screens, gone with noisy system, gone with slow storage, gone with high maintenance.

tian wrote: it's unfortunate really - on one hand, 2x WQHD would be "more than enough" for photo editing, however it does feel wrong to be making a large investment on "previous-gen" displays right now.

Hmm, the W520 keyboard still works better than that of any newer Thinkpad. Can't say I had any problem with that "previous-gen" when I bought a W520 when the W530 was already available. Lot of people hype 4K, but 4K at 24"... come on. At 40" I get it, but not 27", leave alone 24".

tian wrote: quick google for W520 multi monitor shows up this: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/migr-76767 which implies that the w530 (with the same k2000m) card should be able to power dual WQHD via the dock.

tian

W520 is crippled bigtime in it's external screen support. T520 actually supports more

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:If you don't need a laptop; definitely get a desktop. Gone with small screens, gone with noisy system, gone with slow storage, gone with high maintenance.

Also, gone with warm palm rests, gone with losing valuable desk space, gone with hunching my back to see the low and tiny screen, gone with worrying about thieves stealing the laptop, gone with having to put the laptop away at the end of the day, gone with having very limited upgrade possibilities, gone with expensive replacement parts, gone with relying on external hard drives if I need more than 2TB of storage.

I "discovered" desktop computers back in around 2009 and I doubt I will ever return to using laptops as my primary computers. I save so much desk space by putting the "desktop" on the floor. I can hook up as many monitors as I want, easily and cheaply. I can put in three or more high-capacity 3.5" hard drives (up to 10 TB each). The average desktop lasts for much longer than the average laptop. I get the same performance for half as much money as an equivalent laptop. And so on and so forth.

I still don't know why I ended up with so many laptops that I don't really need. I sold one last week, and hope to sell two more (the X31 and the HP Pavilion) within a few months. Actually, I think I know why: they are fun to play with. But when it comes to productivity at work or at home, desktops beat laptops hands down. Of course, when I am traveling, I have no choice but to use a laptop.

So i have just tested the W530 with the 2 x Lenovo ThinkVIsion UHD monitors that i got.

In order to get the system to run the external UHD monitors at the native resolution and at 60 hz. You have to switch the system to Nivida Discrete mode in the BIOS setting. The Nvidia Optimus (which runs through the Intel GPU) only offers UHD resolution at 30 hz.

The system then loses ~35% of it's battery life when using it on the road while not needing the Quadro.

well, i guess when you are using the dual 4K, you are bound to the desk. So you can just switch to discrete GPU in BIOS menu, and then change back when you need it when you are using it as laptop.

Both of my 3840x2160 monitors are driven by Intel graphics at 30 Hz and look perfectly fine to me, even for videos. So, if you are like me and don't mind 30 Hz, just stick with the Intel GPU mode.

pianowizard wrote:Both of my 3840x2160 monitors are driven by Intel graphics at 30 Hz and look perfectly fine to me, even for videos. So, if you are like me and don't mind 30 Hz, just stick with the Intel GPU mode.

We must be different then. Even 18ms inputlag feels sickening to me. Don't think I would like the image being 33 ms old when it gets refreshed.

tian - thanks for your research on this matter. I've been trying to drive dual 4K screens on my W540 + Dock for over 12 months now with no luck and radio silence from Lenovo ([url=https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... -p/1789847][info here/url]. Nice to know that it is basically impossible (what a fantastic waste of time and money this was).

He means this;
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... -p/1789847

hello!

unfortunately i am a bit late to this thread and do not run off a dock..

i am trying to enable 60hz on a 2160p 60hz monitor (vizio p50-c1 hdmi 2.0 port) - however, when i do this, the monitor starts flashing and does not work. i am able to see discrete nvidia k2000m output at 30hz only. my w530 panel is running 1080@60 (intel integrated)

my connection is using the new club3d mini dp adapter (2160p 60hz) and a high speed hdmi 2.0 cable

i have tried disabling the integrated panel in the bios but this did not help. i am going to try and update drivers again. is there anything else i should know?

thanks

I haven't read the entire thread but I've found you need to set displayport to 1.2 as 1.1 I don't think runs at 60hz. I have not tried any hdmi. You can also set custom resolutions in nvidia control panel.