Can I test the BIOS chip for errors on a booted W541 ThinkPad

[Geophyte1]

Is there a way to check the bios chip for errors on a W541 ThinkPad computer that is booted up?
I don't see that hardware listed in the Lenovo hardware scan app.
Or, is it somehow possibly checked in one of the listed scans?
thanks,

[RealBlackStuff]

AFAIK there is no such software available to the public.
What is your problem?

[Geophyte1]

The initial screen, the ThinkPad, is staying resident for over 1 minute on boot up and I was just wondering if it might be a sign the bios is in trouble. I'm also wondering if it might be a sign that my coin-cell battery is going bad.

[RealBlackStuff]

Take your HDD/SSD out, see if it still takes so long.
If you have W10 on it, well, my opinion about that is well known...
If there is a password in BIOS, remove it, save BIOS.
Then remove the CMOS battery and measure with a multimeter.
It it is ~2,8V or less, replace it.

[Geophyte1]

I have started doing the things you suggest.

I took out the boot HD and also the second data HD I have in the ultra-bay caddy and booted the computer. Before removing the HDs the times for the Thinkpad screen were, 36 seconds showing only the word ThinkPad and vertically on the right side the words "a product of lenovo". At the 36 second point the line "to interrupt normal startup, press Enter" appeared below ThinkPad. The screen stayed this way an additional 44 seconds for a total time of 80 seconds,
The only difference after removing the HDs was the time after the line "to interrupt normal startup, press Enter" appeared was shortened to 8 seconds for a total time of 44 seconds. So the total time the Thinkpad screen was resident was 36 seconds shorter with the HDs removed.

I'm probably overthinking this but you said to "save" the bios after removing a password. I want to make sure you only meant the normal save after changing something in bios and not some other "save" that I am unaware of:) Is that what you meant, just the normal "save" after making a change to bios?

I did grudgingly move my W541 and our desktop from W7 to W10 about 2 years ago but after looking at some of your posts I'm wondering if I should not go back to W7. I saw that you run W7 with Windows Defender. Do you have a post that might go into other things to do, not do, when running W7? I'd love to get back to it.

I saved the last W7 HD I had in the W541. That HD has not been used since I switched to W10. I thought it might be interesting to see how long the ThinkPad screen was resident using the W7 HD.
Do you think it would be a problem to try that W7 HD knowing that I have updated the bios probably twice since changing to W10?
Thanks again,

[RealBlackStuff]

Yes, I meant just the ordinary Save BIOS, using F10.

I use W7 Pro/SP1 64-bit Lenovo recovery sets for the few machines that I have left (X240, X240s, X250 and T440p).
The only changes I have made are:
- download any missing driver(s) if Device Manager asks
- remove Internet Explorer completely
- install the flavour-of-that-day browser
- remove any junk, such as Norton, McAfee, Vantage, etc.
- install Malwarebytes free
- install Office 2010 (Word and Excel only) with AutoKMS and Ubitmenu
- set Windows Updates to NEVER
- live happily ever after

And my last T23 still runs perfectly on XP Pro/SP3.

[Geophyte1]

The coin-dell battery voltage is 3.25 volts so it is good.

Any further thoughts about the residence time of the ThinkPad screen both with the HDs and without??

What would a reasonable residence time for the ThinkPad screen be? I never gave it a thought until the time became extended.

Are you aware of any hardware tests going on during the time the ThinkPad screen is resident?

I've been trying to refresh myself in diagnostics, boot-able and otherwise but am in the early stages.

Thanks,

[RealBlackStuff]

How about replacing those HDDs with SSDs?

[Geophyte1]

At this point I'm just trying to figure out why, all other things being equal given a possible update or two, the startup time has increased. I've used HDDs for a long time and I can see no reason that they would be the determining factor in my increased boot time unless they were going bad and the tests don't indicate that.
I have thought about SSDs at times but my speed needs are not that critical these days.

[kitor]

is staying resident for over 1 minute on boot up

Will it self shutdown after 30 minutes? Do CPU clocks work ok?
Long bootup time can be caused by broken ME firmware - but you would see some errors when you escape to diagnostic screen, maybe beeps even.

[e]
I saw your another thread:

Boot up times on my W541 with Windows 10 and 16 gig ram have been increasing for about 4 or 5 months.

No, this wouldn't be ME related.

[Geophyte1]

I have not noticed any untimely shutdowns.
I did open the Intel Management and Security screens and looked at the information shown. Did not see any mention of a problem. Probably 4 days ago I did download the Intel Driver Support Assistant.

I've tried many things such as clean boot, safe boot, taking out the HDDs but none of that made much difference in the length of the residence time of the initial ThinkPad screen or the TP times in the table below.
What is the most interesting thing to happen this week is that for the first time in a few months I've had three different days where the times of the first boot of the day was much shorter. The computer had been off all night so it was cool. Those days were today, yesterday and about 4 days ago. One subsequent boots the boot times have returned to the long times.

I know the effect heat can have to circuit boards, etc.

One other thing of note, the longer boot times apply not only to the ThinkPad screen but also to the subsequent parts of the boot sequence. Here are some of the boot time seen for various boot scenarios.

The times shown below for TP, TP+ and WP screens are the times from hitting the power button to when that screen ended. Time under Login is when the Windows 10 picture of the day appeared.
TP__ TP+_ WP_ login Type of Boot
0:36 1:20 ____ 3:00 Startup from shutdown
0:36 0:44 ____ ____ Removed Boot and data drives
0:31 1:10 2:10 2:23 Safe Mode
0:31 1:10 2:10 2:27 Clean Boot
0:31 1:10 2:10 2:32 Restart from Clean Boot
0:31 1:13 2:12 2:27 Restart after reset from Clean Boot
0:36 1:20 2:22 2:54 Shut down and Startup
0:31 1:10 2:07 2:34 No USB connected
TP = ThinkPad screen before the line appears saying how to change boot
TP+= ThinkPad screen with the line present saying how to change boot
WP = 4 window panes

[RealBlackStuff]

W10 on a HDD, pfui!

[kitor]

At this point I'm just trying to figure out why, all other things being equal given a possible update or two, the startup time has increased. I've used HDDs for a long time and I can see no reason that they would be the determining factor in my increased boot time unless they were going bad and the tests don't indicate that.

If you really have mechanical hard drive and not SSD, those boot times are normal.
Windows 10 and spinning rust don't mix very well. Clean Win10 install on those will take 2+ minutes to boot. Do yourself a favor and replace with SSD - or at least borrow one and try yourself.

Boot time spent on BIOS can be longer on HDD due to spinup / init time which does not happen on SSDs.

You can (again) try to remove WiFi card, all RAM sticks except one, HDD, optical drive, reset BIOS to default settings and then see how long it takes to boot from USB disk (e.g. with Windows 10 setup).
Of course disconnect docking station and any peripherals (monitors, other USB devices than USB stick you boot from) too.
P73 likes to hang on BIOS screen for 30+ seconds with many USB devices connected.

[Geophyte1]

I think I'm ready to think about other things:) At some point I'll try an SSD but my needs are being met as is. I just want to make sure I don't have another hardware problem. I've done a lot of testing and cannot find one.

The boot times are fairly consistent - except for the 3 times it actually booted up quickly the past two weeks.

The big mystery to me is how the ThinkPad screen can show up and sit there 31 to 36 seconds before the words "To interrupt normal startup, press Enter" appear on the screen. What is the computer thinking about before "To interrupt normal startup, press Enter" shows up? Is this part taking so long common?

The transition from just ThinkPad to ThinkPad plus "To interrupt normal startup, press Enter" is difficult to see when it starts quickly because it happens almost instantaneously at the beginning of startup.

Thanks again for the information.