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Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

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Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#1 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:54 am

Microsoft's got a new plan for managing Windows 10 devices for a monthly fee
a commentator wrote:So, essentially, you could argue that MS has been deliberately making its update process a PITA to soften customers up for
turning Windows 10 into a subscription service via this program.
Yet another reason to abstain from this seemingly bottomless PIT(A).

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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#2 Post by MikalE » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:45 pm

I'm very happy I returned to Windows 7 on my main machine.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#3 Post by skx » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:40 pm

It's simple, people still using Windows in 2018 love being tortured :lol: There are no excuses anymore to keep torturing yourself.

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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#4 Post by Dekks » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:45 am

Can't see it being a big money stream if it's for consumers, businesses however may see it as of benefit seeing MS supply hw + sw. But given the recent history of poor patches i can see MS pushing dumb devoices with windows in ROM. Jeez, it's back to the 70s & time-sharing.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#5 Post by AndyMH » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:03 am

There is an alternative, it's called linux. And on most/all older thinkpads it runs flawlessly.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#6 Post by MikalE » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:21 am

Too bad not all of the software you need does.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#7 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:10 am

Have some Wine with your Linux!

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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#8 Post by MikalE » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:35 am

Sorry. That doesn't cut it either.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#9 Post by TPFanatic » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:33 pm

I'll stick with 7 on my personal / pleasure computers.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#10 Post by pianowizard » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:06 pm

Dekks wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:45 am
But given the recent history of poor patches
Poor patches for Windows 10? I was among the first to install Win 10 (the day it came out, 29 July 2015) and while I got used to its user interface within days and was never paranoid about "spying", I was a little skeptical of the forced updates, and was very concerned about instability. But it has been just over 3 years and none of the Win 10 updates have caused any serious issue. The only exception is that a couple times a year it would automatically update my display driver to a newer version that somehow doesn't support my 4K monitors' native resolution, but this is easily fixable because I just need to go to Device Manager to revert to the older driver version. Of course a novice might freak out over this issue, but I am not a novice.

If you were referring to poor patches for Windows 7, then I agree. The worst patch happened 4 or 5 months ago, causing most of my lab's computers with 32-bit Win 7 Enterprise to blue-screen. My solution was to either disable Windows Update, or upgrade to 64-bit which of course took a lot of time. Granted, something like this could happen to Win 10 in the future, and disabling Windows Update wouldn't be an option for Win 10 Home or Win 10 Pro. I hope it will never happen!

In terms of stability, Win 10 has definitely been improving steadily over the past 3 years. Weekly crashes became monthly, and then quarterly, and now virtually never. I finally feel comfortable enough to start upgrading my lab's research computers from 7 to 10. Last week I put Win 10 on an 11-year-old Dell Optiplex 755 minitower (Core2 Duo E8400, 8GB PC2-6400, mechanical HDD) which seems to be the oldest generation of computers that's reasonably compatible with Win 10, and have had zero problems so far. Performance is also snappier than expected.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#11 Post by dr_st » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:05 pm

pianowizard wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:06 pm
I was a little skeptical of the forced updates, and was very concerned about instability. But it has been just over 3 years and none of the Win 10 updates have caused any serious issue.
Some updates potentially cause issues to a certain subset of the users, so you may never experience it but someone else will (due to specific configuration differences). This has always been the case (it's nothing new in Win10). The problem with the forced updates is not the updates, but the process itself (that it forcefully takes control of the PC from you, and restarts it, killing all your unsaved work without a prompt).
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#12 Post by pianowizard » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:13 pm

dr_st wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:05 pm
The problem with the forced updates is not the updates, but the process itself (that it forcefully takes control of the PC from you, and restarts it, killing all your unsaved work without a prompt).
Win 10 has never done this to me.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#13 Post by dr_st » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:19 pm

pianowizard wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:13 pm
Win 10 has never done this to me.
Nor to me, because both you and I are "power users". Folks not in this group who were a little to careless about configuring the Windows Update options have this happen to them on a regular basis. I don't agree with the approach of "I'm smart and can get around everything, so nothing is a problem". Windows sells itself for being user-friendly to the masses. The forced update crap of Win10 is anything but.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#14 Post by skx » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:42 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:10 am
Have some Wine with your Linux!
yes wine, and if this does not fulfill someone's needs you just run your windows os of choice in a virtualbox. there is really no longer an excuse to stay on windows.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#15 Post by dr_st » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:41 am

skx wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:42 pm
yes wine, and if this does not fulfill someone's needs you just run your windows os of choice in a virtualbox. there is really no longer an excuse to stay on windows.
I like Windows. Why do I need an "excuse"? :)
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#16 Post by Dekks » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:32 am

pianowizard wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:06 pm

Poor patches for Windows 10?
Count yourself lucky, but it's a fact win10 has had some pretty bad major patches. Creators update was particularly bad, bad enough for it to be temporarily disabled.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#17 Post by Dekks » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:39 am

dr_st wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:19 pm
pianowizard wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:13 pm
Win 10 has never done this to me.
Nor to me, because both you and I are "power users".
Most of the "hiccups" are related to poorly tested hw issues.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#18 Post by dr_st » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:55 am

Dekks wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:39 am
dr_st wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:19 pm
Nor to me, because both you and I are "power users".
Most of the "hiccups" are related to poorly tested hw issues.
We were talking about something a bit different in that post.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#19 Post by MikalE » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:41 am

dr_st wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:41 am
skx wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:42 pm
yes wine, and if this does not fulfill someone's needs you just run your windows os of choice in a virtualbox. there is really no longer an excuse to stay on windows.
I like Windows. Why do I need an "excuse"? :)
As do I.

If you have to go through all of the trouble to run Wine or a virtual box or other Windows emulator, just run Windows for Pete's sake. Jesus.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#20 Post by skx » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:19 am

dr_st wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:41 am
I like Windows. Why do I need an "excuse"? :)
true 8)
MikalE wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:41 am
If you have to go through all of the trouble to run Wine or a virtual box or other Windows emulator, just run Windows for Pete's sake. Jesus.
i guarantee you that running win7/10 in a virtualbox is less hassle than doing a full fledged install :wink:
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#21 Post by MikalE » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:40 am

I certainly don't remember reloading Win7 Pro last week as any sort of hassle. In fact it was one of the smoothest installs I've performed.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#22 Post by skx » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:04 pm

MikalE wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:40 am
I certainly don't remember reloading Win7 Pro last week as any sort of hassle. In fact it was one of the smoothest installs I've performed.
It's because you didn't yet look at the other side of your walled garden ;) Smooth would have another meaning hehe :D
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#23 Post by Hans Gruber » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:24 pm

My advice to Win 10 users. Reinstall your OS regularly. Backup your files religiously on USB to make the process easier. Keep a Win 10 USB ISO and update it regularly through the Microsoft media creation ISO website. That is the simple solution. Win 10 runs better than Win 7. The antivirus in Win 10 makes paid antivirus pointless. I like the look of Win 7 much better than Win 10. It was much more logical than Win 10 in my opinion.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#24 Post by TPFanatic » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:37 pm

Win 10 may runs better than 7 with both using SSDs, but try both on a hard drive and all of 10's background tasks, Windows Defender, Telemetry, whatever it is grinds your machine to a halt. People are still buying laptops with HDDs and Windows 10 and then they complain about high disk usage.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#25 Post by dr_st » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:10 pm

Hans Gruber wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:24 pm
My advice to Win 10 users. Reinstall your OS regularly. Backup your files religiously on USB to make the process easier.
Uhm, that's probably the worst possible advice to give. Like saying "replace your car engine regularly".
Hans Gruber wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:24 pm
Win 10 runs better than Win 7.
If it runs better than 7, why does one need, in your opinion, to reinstall it so much?
Hans Gruber wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:24 pm
I like the look of Win 7 much better than Win 10. It was much more logical than Win 10 in my opinion.
Agree. As far as desktop UI goes, IMO Vista/7 were the pinnacle of Windows in terms of good looks and consistency.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#26 Post by pianowizard » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:54 am

dr_st wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:19 pm
Nor to me, because both you and I are "power users". Folks not in this group who were a little to careless about configuring the Windows Update options have this happen to them on a regular basis.
But for Windows 10 Home or Pro, there is nothing to configure in Windows Update, is there? I have never configured anything, and yet Win 10 has never restarted on its own. However, I do turn off all my computers at the end of the day, every day. People who leave their computers on 24/7 could conceivably encounter the auto-restart issue now and then, but I am just guessing here.
dr_st wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:19 pm
I don't agree with the approach of "I'm smart and can get around everything, so nothing is a problem".
This is not what I meant when I wrote "I haven't had major issues with Win 10 updates". Rather, I was questioning whether people actually have had major issues with Win 10 updates, or they are just spreading rumors.
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#27 Post by dr_st » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:41 am

pianowizard wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:54 am
But for Windows 10 Home or Pro, there is nothing to configure in Windows Update, is there?
There are; things like active hours, when it's OK to restart the PC, whether it's OK to restart the PC, whether it's OK to automatically install updates or not (the last one is only available in Pro, BTW, via a group policy; Win 10 Home users have to manually modify registry settings to be able to stop forced updates).
pianowizard wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:54 am
I have never configured anything, and yet Win 10 has never restarted on its own. However, I do turn off all my computers at the end of the day, every day. People who leave their computers on 24/7 could conceivably encounter the auto-restart issue now and then, but I am just guessing here.
Yeah, conceivably. *end of sarcasm* I guess if you live in a region that never experiences tornados you might be surprised why people think tornados can be a big deal...
pianowizard wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:54 am
I was questioning whether people actually have had major issues with Win 10 updates, or they are just spreading rumors.
I told you what, from my experience, the major issues are. It's not the updates, it's the approach. Once again, from. my. personal. experience. Whoever may be just spreading rumours, it's not me. :)
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#28 Post by pkiff » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:48 pm

dr_st wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:19 pm
The problem with the forced updates is not the updates, but the process itself (that it forcefully takes control of the PC from you, and restarts it, killing all your unsaved work without a prompt).
pianowizard wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:13 pm
Win 10 has never done this to me.
dr_st wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:19 pm
Nor to me, because both you and I are "power users". Folks not in this group who were a little to careless about configuring the Windows Update options have this happen to them on a regular basis.[...]
I had this happen last year on a Win 10 machine in an enterprise environment where I was using an office machine as a regular (non-admin) user. Though to be fair, I think that what actually happened was that the machine warned me with a pop-up that it was going to reboot, but the popup appeared at precisely the moment when I was furiously typing something and I happened to click RETURN at the wrong moment, accepting the immediate reboot by accident instead of delaying it. I partly blame the admins who configured it to update in the middle of the day instead of the middle of the night.

Aside from that one bad experience on someone else's machine, I've not run into update issues with Win 10 Pro. And indeed, my experience with Windows 10 on my personal W520 machine has been rock solid. There are lots of software and hardware reasons that are still keeping me from running Linux as my main OS, even though I have a Win10/Ubuntu dual-boot machine and am comfortable in Linux. It really depends on what kind of work you do during your day, and what your software and hardware needs are, I think. Or, if you have issues with the lack of full privacy controls in Win10 :D
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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#29 Post by exTPfan » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:37 am

Windows 10 updates are shoddy, and break things. Who says so? Microsoft MVP Susan Bradley.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft ... 860.0.html
But don't worry, the next version "is expected to restart the PC only when the user has stepped away for a considerable amount of time." So, you spend the day writing the Great American Novel, go off to dinner, and BAM!
Work: T60p (Win 7, UXGA IPS); T60/61 FPad (Win 7, UXGA IPS).
Toys: X1 (first gen, Win 7); T450s (Win 7).

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Re: Micro$haft is readying to $haft W10 users even more!

#30 Post by pkiff » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:59 am

exTPfan wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:37 am
Windows 10 updates are shoddy, and break things. Who says so? Microsoft MVP Susan Bradley....
Wow, that does not sound good! I didn't know about the myriad issues she raises for enterprises and patching in Win 10.
W520 (dual-boot Windows 10/Ubuntu 15) · X61 Tablet SXGA+ · T60p UXGA · Legacy: X60T, 600X, 770Z
Thinkpad Media Centre: X61T running XBMC with Broadcom Crystal HD BCM970015, Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1 plugged into Cambridge Audio Sonata AR30 receiver

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