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Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

Windows 10 on Lenovo hardware
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Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#1 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:30 am

Windows 10 October update problems: Wiped docs, plus Intel driver warning

Back up files before upgrading to Windows 10 1809, and if you get a warning about Intel drivers, do not proceed.

UPDATE 10/8/2018:
Micro$haft pulls Update 1809!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#2 Post by pianowizard » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:59 am

Thanks for the warning. I just updated three of my four personal computers to 1809 and didn't lose any files, probably because since over 10 years ago I have always kept documents in a separate partition or even physical drive. I never use the "Documents" folder that comes with Windows, after experiencing issues with it back in the Windows NT era.

I am delighted that after this 1809 update, Windows 10 takes up nearly 2GB less space than it did before. It seems that Microsoft has been working hard to shrink Windows 10, perhaps to make it more compatible with all those cheap (<$200) laptops that ship with only 32GB of eMMC internal storage. But if they are drastically rewriting Windows 10, they ought to test it extra thoroughly before releasing an update.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#3 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:01 pm

I guess that this goes back to the old saying that there are people who needed backups and those who will need them...losing 220GB of data in a single sitting would land me in the ER, no questions asked.

Then again, I find it exceptionally difficult to feel sorry for anyone who got a migraine of any kind from W8.x or W10. And the same goes for anyone who doesn't back up important stuff of *any* kind immediately.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#4 Post by TPFanatic » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:32 pm

All that data should be recoverable unless someone scribbles over it.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#5 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:40 pm

TPFanatic wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:32 pm
All that data should be recoverable unless someone scribbles over it.
Yep, did that when Sony decided that 42GB of my 64GB SD card was garbage and formatted it. Got it all back luckily.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#6 Post by MagicBoy » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:16 am

pianowizard wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:59 am
I am delighted that after this 1809 update, Windows 10 takes up nearly 2GB less space than it did before. It seems that Microsoft has been working hard to shrink Windows 10, perhaps to make it more compatible with all those cheap (<$200) laptops that ship with only 32GB of eMMC internal storage. But if they are drastically rewriting Windows 10, they ought to test it extra thoroughly before releasing an update.
There's been some optimisations, but most of the space you get back is from a clean install without all the culmulative monthly update cruft from the previous version cluttering the drive up...
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#7 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:09 pm


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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#8 Post by TonyJZX » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:32 pm

I feel like at this point MS are doing an 'all care but no responsibility' as far as these major updates go.

If you lose your MyDocs folder well then... that's your issue.

You cant actually complain to MS about it as WIndows has always been a caveat emptor piece of software.

You didnt back up? THat's on you. MS have run their phone support in a way that you have to rely on a local tech if you're truly stuck.

I know 99% of people here dont care since you're all either information tech professionals or you're decades long home enthusiasts anyway... I mean I always find these kinds of stories amusing as you look at it from an outsiders point of view knowing that MS (and every IT company) plays loose with your data... and yet people will do big time updates on data that's no backed up.

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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#9 Post by GomJabbar » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:13 am

Reading up more on this, I see that Update 1809 is called a "Feature Update". A Feature Update is a major update that comes out every so often. The last Feature Update to Windows 10 was Version 1803 back in April. Feature updates are treated differently than other updates, and one can delay their installation for up to a year or more by setting Advanced Options in Windows Update.

This article from ZD-Net shows how to delay the update until it is fully tested or get it faster if you like to live on the edge. Unfortunately for some, these choices only work with the Pro, Enterprise, and Education versions of Windows. Windows Home Edition does not offer these options apparently.

Windows 10 October 2018 Update: How to get it, how to avoid it

Of note:
ZD-Net wrote:First, you can opt into the Semi-Annual Channel, instead of the Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted). Devices assigned to that channel don't begin receiving feature updates until Microsoft has declared them ready for widespread business adoption, a designation that should give you at least two months of breathing room.

Second, regardless of which channel a device is assigned to, you can defer the delivery of feature updates by up to 365 days from the official release date for the selected channel. (Quality and security updates can be deferred up to 30 days.)
DKB

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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#10 Post by MikalE » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:20 am

The newest feature seems to be auto-file deletion. Oooops.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#11 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:24 am

MikalE wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:20 am
The newest feature seems to be auto-file deletion. Oooops.
First they download games automatically, now there making space for those games. :lol:
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#12 Post by TPFanatic » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:29 am

The only risk I want to worry about deleting my data is physical failure of the drive, not my OS deleting my stuff. I actually put a lot of crap in My Documents so in the long run I'm glad I stuck with 7.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#13 Post by TonyJZX » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:46 am

The October 2018 Update tried to tidy up this situation. When KFR is being used, the October 2018 Update will delete the original, default Known Folder locations. Microsoft imagined that this would simply remove some empty, redundant directories from your user profile. No need to have a Documents directory in your profile if you're using a redirected location, after all. The problem is, it neither checked to see if those directories were empty first, nor copied any files to the new, redirected location. It just wiped out the old directory, along with anything stored within it. Hence the data loss.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/10 ... r-testing/

So my reading of this is that they tried to remove some redundant directories but did not check if there were user files in them.

LOL 2 that!

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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#14 Post by w0qj » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:58 am

Let me think about this on my Win7 ThinkPad which is my daily driver ;)

1. MS is also rumored to be considering to get rid of the Windows 10 Disk Cleanup Utility (after this had been around for about 20 years),
in order to "encourage" users to use OneDrive as their go to file location instead.

2. Whilst I'm sure this Win10 Update 1809 fiasco is an honest mistake,
from MS's point of view, if users had all of their files on OneDrive, then this Win10 Update 1809 would not have affected them, right?

***Stuff like this is the reason why I'm still sticking with my Win7 ThinkPad!
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#15 Post by dr_st » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:17 am

TonyJZX wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:46 am
The October 2018 Update tried to tidy up this situation. When KFR is being used, the October 2018 Update will delete the original, default Known Folder locations. Microsoft imagined that this would simply remove some empty, redundant directories from your user profile. No need to have a Documents directory in your profile if you're using a redirected location, after all. The problem is, it neither checked to see if those directories were empty first, nor copied any files to the new, redirected location. It just wiped out the old directory, along with anything stored within it. Hence the data loss.
This is probably the worst bug in the history of Windows. Everyone in the chain should be fired, and the managers should also go to jail.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#16 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:32 am

Not even ME got this bad. ME only deleted what was in memory from crashing.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#17 Post by dr_st » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:39 am

I don't know if ME actually crashed more than 98SE, because I did not use it at the time... Nowadays it does not seem to be the case; however, it's possible that, like Vista, WinME was bad at first, and greatly improved later, after people already stopped caring.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#18 Post by MikalE » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:41 am

It's hard to believe the idiots at MS didn't run a check of this before releasing it.

Or, as stated above, maybe they did and they planned it all along.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#19 Post by Cigarguy » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:46 am

Microsoft have been doing this for years. Using the users as testers. Being in a monopoly position this doesn't hurt them a bit. Would not surprise me one bit had this been done deliberately with the intent of promoting or justifying one drive.

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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#20 Post by GomJabbar » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:24 pm

The 'bad penny' just turned up again. :lol:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-1 ... etion-bug/
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#21 Post by TonyJZX » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:05 pm

The irony is that MS got rid of most of their QA for this and the middle managers are probably going to upper management... this is a consequence of that decison and there will be no blowback and they dont care about bad press at this point because... what other o/s are you going to switch to?

The vast majority of people get an o/s for 'free' with their new hardware.

I would imagine there are a fair few calls to HP Dell Lenovo and all the majors complaining about this and they're telling customers to take it up with Microsoft and the 1st level outsourced Win10 support is telling them to get bent.

ANd so goes the circle of life.

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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#22 Post by w0qj » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:17 am

For those who are interested, here's a layman's "technical" explanation for this Update 1809 fiasco:

www.pcworld.com/article/3312642/windows ... lders.html
www.eweek.com/enterprise-apps/microsoft ... lose-files
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#23 Post by pianowizard » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:11 pm

GomJabbar wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:13 am
ZD-Net wrote:First, you can opt into the Semi-Annual Channel, instead of the Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted). Devices assigned to that channel don't begin receiving feature updates until Microsoft has declared them ready for widespread business adoption, a designation that should give you at least two months of breathing room.
Thanks for the tip. Microsoft should have set "Semi-Annual Channel" as the default, and let people who want to be guinea pigs switch to "Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted)" manually. That would have limited the damage to far fewer users, and Microsoft's image would have been less tarnished.

Microsoft should also have disabled all nonessential telemetry by default, but no, they chose to turn everything on. Many (most?) users have no idea that they should turn off these options manually, and those of us who do are forced to click hundreds of items each time that we install Windows 10 on a new computer. When there is a major update, new telemetry options pop up and we have to disable those, too.
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Re: Micro$haft is $hafting W10 users again! Beware of Update 1809

#24 Post by madicetea » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:27 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:30 am
UPDATE 10/8/2018:
Micro$haft pulls Update 1809!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PULLS? JESUS, I still can't be sorry for deciding to switch to Enterprise LTSB through my school a year ago.

Best thing so far: Still can use Windows apps while not having to worry about these stuuuupid bugged feature updates.

Side-note: It's impressive to hear how often tech co-workers will complain about something on Patch Wednesday (US Tuesday = ~lunch Wednesday JST).
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