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Windows 11 Compatibility.

Windows 1x on Thinkpads
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josh5k
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#61 Post by josh5k » Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:40 am

MikalE wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:21 am
My Dell G3 upgraded without incident from Windows 10, but after trying many work-arounds my T520 failed four attempts to upgrade to even Windows 10 from Windows 7. THis T520 already had Windows 10 on it once back in '18 and I went back to 7. But I like Windows 11 and was going to try to upgrade to 10 and then 11 on the T520. Seems like this will be a no-go.
I'm surprised that your Win10 Upgrade isn't going through. Perhaps try a clean install? All my *20 and above machines upgraded to Win10 without incident.

Esp since you've already had Win10 on this machine already, it has to be on the installed drivers or programs that's causing the issue (unless there's been a hardware change since then). Is there a significant loss to just going for a clean install?
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#62 Post by MikalE » Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:37 am

No loss really. And it's a good thing too because I've now screwed up the BOOTMGR and it can't find either the original Win 7 drive nor the second drive with XP 64 loaded.

I formatted the C drive to do a clean install and then the BOOTMGR was gone. :oops: I'm going to be working on it in the next few days but I've had to set it aside for now.
A31p P-IV 2Ghz, 2MB, 2653-R6U
T500 T9600 2055-BE9
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T520 i7QM 4242-4UU Highly Modified

MikalE
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#63 Post by MikalE » Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:59 pm

I took the 250GB SSD out of the DVD bay and swapped it with the formatted drive that used to have Windows 7 Pro loaded.

The XP 64 drive booted, but it wanted the installation disc, so I inserted that to the now replaced CD/DVD ROM device and reloaded Win 64 Pro. It is rebooting as I type this after loading the OS again.

And it is now starting in Win 64 Pro. Now I will have to load Win 7 again to the formatted drive after replacing it in the tray caddy, and load from the external CD/DVD drive.

And all of this work is because of a split-second lapse of memory. Sucks to get old. It was a pain in the butt the get Windows 7 Pro and Windows XP 64 to dual boot on this machine on separate drives with different boot loader managers, but I did it after some trial and error. I don't know if I will be able repeat that again using Win 64 Pro and Win 10/11 (if I can get it to install).

And the T520 will still not probably upgrade to Win 10 so I can further upgrade to 11.

I have an old .iso from 2015 that will likely upgrade it to 10, but then further upgrades may not be possible, and probably not at all to 11.
A31p P-IV 2Ghz, 2MB, 2653-R6U
T500 T9600 2055-BE9
T510 i5 4384-DV7
T510 i7 4349-A64
T520 i7QM 4242-4UU Highly Modified

MikalE
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#64 Post by MikalE » Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:34 pm

Windows XP 64 Pro is running fine, but I have many drivers to download from my external drive where my driver cache is located.

I going to try to upgrade directly to Windows 7 instead of setting up the dual-boot drives again. Then I will try to upgrade to Win 10 and finally 11.

I think DirectX 12 is going to be a roadblock though. But we'll see.
A31p P-IV 2Ghz, 2MB, 2653-R6U
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#65 Post by MikalE » Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:25 pm

The T520 would not upgrade to Win 10 with either a direct download or an .iso to either of my SSD's. The error I kept receiving at each attempt was that a CD/DVD ROM Driver was missing and I could not find a fix for a MB this old. The fix is out there for newer equipment, but it would not install on a system this old.

What I did was to remove a Windows 7 spinner drive from one of my T510's, installed it into the T520 and upgraded directly to the spinner drive overwriting Windows 7.

Windows 10 successfully installed to the spinner drive in the T520 and the Samsung EVO 850 drive is in the caddy and the Win 10 O/S is being migrated to the EVO 850 via Samsung Migration Software.

It is currently at 21%. After this completes I will attempt to upgrade to Windows 11 on the EVO 850 SSD.

So much for my dual boot-dual drive T520. I really f##### that up with a nano second of memory lapse.
A31p P-IV 2Ghz, 2MB, 2653-R6U
T500 T9600 2055-BE9
T510 i5 4384-DV7
T510 i7 4349-A64
T520 i7QM 4242-4UU Highly Modified

MikalE
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#66 Post by MikalE » Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:42 pm

MS indicates my T520 does not meet the hardware requirements for Win 11, but also doesn't say why.

I think Direct X 12 has something to do with it.

Well, at least Win 10 is humming along...all locked down.
A31p P-IV 2Ghz, 2MB, 2653-R6U
T500 T9600 2055-BE9
T510 i5 4384-DV7
T510 i7 4349-A64
T520 i7QM 4242-4UU Highly Modified

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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#67 Post by ThinkPad560X » Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:53 pm

Windows 10 64bit will run fine on ThinkPad T410,T510,T420,T520 and the W series. Windows 11 will not work on these ThinkPads. They do not have secure boot and TPM 2.0 and they only have 1st and 2nd gen Intel Core i processors. Microsoft requires a 8th gen Core i processors. ThinkPad T430 has secure boot but still not TPM 2.0. You would need a ThinkPad T460 at the very latest to maybe support Windows 11. 7th Gen core i processors maybe supported but is still not known as Microsoft still says 8th gen is the lowest supported.
IBM: 760XD,770Z,600X,560X,560Z,570,380Z,390X,240,i1200,i1400,
A22m,A22e,A30,G40,R31,R40,R50,R60,R61,R400,R500,
T20,T23,T30,T40,T43,T60,T61,T400,T400s,T500,T500 CUSTOM,W500,W700,
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#68 Post by MikalE » Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:33 pm

There's a YouTube video floating around of an excited kid loading Windows 11 to a T500.

It does install and the Welcome/Start screen displays after a few screen blackouts, and it allows you to select your location etc.

And then his screen went dark and never came ack on. So much for that experiment.

I do not know why Windows 11 ignored the TPM 2.0 or eighth generation processor requirement, but this kid had it loaded, but it didn't run but for a few minutes before the screen blanked out on him.
A31p P-IV 2Ghz, 2MB, 2653-R6U
T500 T9600 2055-BE9
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T510 i7 4349-A64
T520 i7QM 4242-4UU Highly Modified

MikalE
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#69 Post by MikalE » Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:35 pm

ThinkPad560X wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:53 pm
Windows 10 64bit will run fine on ThinkPad T410,T510,T420,T520 and the W series. Windows 11 will not work on these ThinkPads. They do not have secure boot and TPM 2.0 and they only have 1st and 2nd gen Intel Core i processors. Microsoft requires a 8th gen Core i processors. ThinkPad T430 has secure boot but still not TPM 2.0. You would need a ThinkPad T460 at the very latest to maybe support Windows 11. 7th Gen core i processors maybe supported but is still not known as Microsoft still says 8th gen is the lowest supported.
The CD/DVD ROM driver would not load to the T520. I know Windows 10 will operate on a T520. I have it running already on two T510's.

It was also previously installed to the T520 in 2018.
A31p P-IV 2Ghz, 2MB, 2653-R6U
T500 T9600 2055-BE9
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T510 i7 4349-A64
T520 i7QM 4242-4UU Highly Modified

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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#70 Post by ThinkPad560X » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:27 pm

The windows 11 insider and or the windows 11 floating around on the internet doesn't have the requirments turned on on these versions, so you can install on lower end CPUs and Microsoft said the full final retail version will require it and they said you can't bypass it.
IBM: 760XD,770Z,600X,560X,560Z,570,380Z,390X,240,i1200,i1400,
A22m,A22e,A30,G40,R31,R40,R50,R60,R61,R400,R500,
T20,T23,T30,T40,T43,T60,T61,T400,T400s,T500,T500 CUSTOM,W500,W700,
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#71 Post by dr_st » Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:38 pm

ThinkPad560X wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:27 pm
Microsoft said the full final retail version will require it and they said you can't bypass it.
Did they? There is a lot of confusing information circulating.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#72 Post by Ktownjeff » Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:09 pm

I booted and installed 11 and was given the option to join the beta channel...Thinkpad X131e...complete stock 3gb ram In this process I had another machine with ssd Samsung 128gb dell optiplex 790 i5...I had already uped to windows 11 and passed all checks with workarounds...well I decided to upgrade bios on thinkpad and found that my ssd would fit perfect so I took the 500gb old optical out and dirty installed the ssd just to see...booted right up got itself adjusted the system creates me a second user directory to go along with previous....even took next ota release..lost all my OEM stuff that wasn't in the dell...so I've spent a week getting all drivers back...and for the life of me I cannot get the Bluetooth to work I've tried everything even Ubuntu and Linux drivers...11 in my opinion sucks and it just looks better...it still beats the collection of feed the adview my data drumb so I can be suggested VPN and security enhanced strong arming by Google/msssofft

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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#73 Post by ThinkPad560X » Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:31 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rEtZ6Othg They even deleted the comments and turned off commenting due to the backlash. They just want you to buy a NEW pc so their licensing keys will be bought from OEMs and don't want a large user base of Free upgrades like 10 did for 7 and 8 users. So they want a 3 year only as far back 8th gen core processors. The way I see it, if your machine can run 10 then it should be able to run 11. The ThinkPad T43 and last gen Pentium 4s can run windows 10.
IBM: 760XD,770Z,600X,560X,560Z,570,380Z,390X,240,i1200,i1400,
A22m,A22e,A30,G40,R31,R40,R50,R60,R61,R400,R500,
T20,T23,T30,T40,T43,T60,T61,T400,T400s,T500,T500 CUSTOM,W500,W700,
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#74 Post by dr_st » Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:40 am

ThinkPad560X wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:31 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rEtZ6Othg They even deleted the comments and turned off commenting due to the backlash.
Thanks. However in all that 50 minute long video, there was very little said on the actual topic of "Microsoft said the full final retail version will require it and they said you can't bypass it", and what was said was rather vague... Maybe I missed it, but I'm not going to watch it more carefully just for that. If you can point me out to a more specific statement, I will reevaluate.

I did learn a couple of things from that video - like how the feature updates between certain Win10 versions (1903-->1909 or 2004-->20H2-->21H1-->21H2) are performed as lightweight "enablement packages", which reduce downtime. That's neat. I think I'll upgrade my 1903 systems to 1909 soon.
ThinkPad560X wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:31 pm
They just want you to buy a NEW pc so their licensing keys will be bought from OEMs and don't want a large user base of Free upgrades like 10 did for 7 and 8 users. So they want a 3 year only as far back 8th gen core processors.
This is actually quite a plausible explanation. Can't blame them for wanting to earn money, but if that's what it's about - then the mechanism is strange. It would be better, IMO, to limit the free upgrades from 10 to 11 to those who actually purchased a Win10 license, and not those who got one as a free upgrade. For this they would have had to set up the license tracking accordingly in the first place... And in any case, no matter what they would do people would complain.

In the end, there will definitely be some form of solution. If not an officially supported method, then a hack.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#75 Post by ThinkPad560X » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:11 am

IBM: 760XD,770Z,600X,560X,560Z,570,380Z,390X,240,i1200,i1400,
A22m,A22e,A30,G40,R31,R40,R50,R60,R61,R400,R500,
T20,T23,T30,T40,T43,T60,T61,T400,T400s,T500,T500 CUSTOM,W500,W700,
X21,X30,X41,X41T,X60,X60T,X200,X300,Z60m,Z61t

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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#76 Post by kfzhu1229 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:50 pm

ThinkPad560X wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:31 pm
The way I see it, if your machine can run 10 then it should be able to run 11. The ThinkPad T43 and last gen Pentium 4s can run windows 10.
Well technically the T43 won't be able to run Windows 11 because of the lack of x64 capability. But yeah the last Cedar Mill Pentium 4's that can run x64 Windows 10 will run Windows 11 too.
I also have installed Windows 11 on a test SSD for my Precision M4300 with the Core 2 Extreme X9000 and 8GB of RAM. After dealing with the registry workarounds mentioned by Linus tech tips as well as him mentioning how to get an ISO for Windows 11, it is up and running.
However, what will spell doom in Windows 11 for most T61 models except the 15.4" T61p is the graphical stuff... Windows 11 is quite a bit more graphically intensive than 10 and uses about 30MB more VRAM than 10 does. It seems like a minute amount but this is enough to push the 128MB VRAM to the brinks where for anything over WXGA resolution, opening up a browser already exceeds the 128MB of VRAM available!
As such, models with 128MB of VRAM will really struggle in Windows 11 unless you stick with a low res XGA or WXGA screen...
It also cooks the graphics chip a lot more so those with a failure prone NVidia chip gotta be careful...
And models with the Intel IGPU basically have to disable all of the visual effects to run anything like smoothly in Windows 11
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#77 Post by RistoE » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:37 am

Windows 11 installs without issues on T60 with C2D 7200 processor. Install stick was W10 stick with modified W11 install.esd file. Very slow as I used 40GB spinning drive. Ah, touchpad buttons did not work but I used a mouse. Not planning to use but just wanted to try it. Writing this from T440p with W11 Pro which seem to work faster than W10 ever (but replaced the SSD with a premium one at the same time).
600E (P3-850Mhz), 3*T60 (3*T7200), T400 (8600Mhz/8GB/SSD120GB), T420 (4180-CA3 with Samsung 850 mSATA 250GB), T440p (i7-4702MQ with Samsung 870EVO 1TB)

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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#78 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:42 am

RistoE wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:37 am
Windows 11 installs without issues on T60 with C2D 7200 processor. Install stick was W10 stick with modified W11 install.esd file. Very slow as I used 40GB spinning drive. Ah, touchpad buttons did not work but I used a mouse. Not planning to use but just wanted to try it. Writing this from T440p with W11 Pro which seem to work faster than W10 ever (but replaced the SSD with a premium one at the same time).
Nice and I kinda expected that, but definitely not anything older because Windows 11 doesn't have a 32 bit version. I just used the registry changes right at setup to bypass the checks.
But again I imagine it is going to struggle very bad as even the best of the best graphics like the Quadro FX 360M and 570M will be put to the knees with Windows 11 when you run it with WSXGA+ or higher.
You also only get updates until those from like 2 weeks ago. But that can also be a good thing since you won't have Windows update harassing your hardware and peg your CPU usage to 100% when you are out and about and relying on the battery for example.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
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T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#79 Post by keithsketchley » Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:54 pm

Even my T480 is not compatible, according to Microsloppy's checking routine.

Says Intel Core i5-7300U Processor is not compatible.

(Checking routine shows a few aspects that are compatible, oddly does not list graphics which I read is one of Microsloppy's concerns.)

Oh well, I have four years of Windows 10 support in which to find good Unix application software and buy an Acer computer. :-o)
(Being fed up with the combination of Loonoovo and Microsloppy.)

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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#80 Post by keithsketchley » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:19 pm

Oddly, Microsloppy's checking routine shows green checkmark beside processor in its list of things checked, identifying processor as having two or more cores, and sufficient speed.

Perhaps MS have goofed and not listed that processor. MS do not list the 7200 processor either.

OTOH, my second T480 is rated compatible, it has i5-8250U CPU.
MS minimum processor requirements are for "1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with 2 or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor or System on a Chip (SoC)". "compatible 64-bit processor" links to a page that lists the 8250U but not my 7300U.

Comparing Intel specs I read:
- the 7300U has better 'image' and seemingly related capabilities (it is rated faster clock speed)
- the 8250U CPU has 8 total threads, the 7300U has 4
- RAM speed spec for the 8250U is slightly higher
- the 7300U has some features the 8250U does not have (the numbers indicate seventh and eight generation respectively)
So all I see different that conceivably could affect compatibility is number of threads and the generation - whatever that defines.

I dunno, MS may or may not. :-o)



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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#81 Post by dr_st » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:07 am

keithsketchley wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:19 pm
Oddly, Microsloppy's checking routine shows green checkmark beside processor in its list of things checked, identifying processor as having two or more cores, and sufficient speed.

Perhaps MS have goofed and not listed that processor. MS do not list the 7200 processor either.

OTOH, my second T480 is rated compatible, it has i5-8250U CPU.
MS minimum processor requirements are for "1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with 2 or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor or System on a Chip (SoC)". "compatible 64-bit processor" links to a page that lists the 8250U but not my 7300U.
It could be that their is a silly whitelist thing going on, or maybe the checking routine is dumb and misread the CPU speed due to power-saving features. One shouldn't trust those things blindly.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#82 Post by MotoZappa » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:23 pm

Hi there. I've built my very custom T430 from the ground up just 6 months ago and I'm not replacing it anytime soon :D . I've installed a I7-3632QM which is plenty good for pretty much every task even today. However since Microsoft considers anything from the 7th generation and older too old to be compatible I started looking for long term solutions. Given as a fact that from what it seems for now Windows 11 runs without issues even on older hardware, it would be nice to find some way to ""fix"" those machines in order to be able to upgrade them when they really become obsolete. For the Directx version I think we are stuck with what we have, but if TPM 2.0 becomes a strict requirement I think there might be a solution. TPM 2.0 external modules are easily available and use a common SPI interface. I don't know for sure but in theory it would be possible to use the MSATA or a USB port to wire a SPI interface for an external module. On my T430, and I'm sure in some older models as well, there are two internal USB ports for smart card reader and fingerprint sensor that can be wired to some kind of adaptor, also on ebay I've seen some compact TMP 2.0 modules that come from some dell laptop series and I'm pretty sure they use SPI as well, or maybe even USB directly. Let me know what you think of that idea

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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#83 Post by keithsketchley » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:15 pm

I dunno what dr_st means by 'whitelist' scheme.

I take Microsloppy's compatible processor list as a whitelist, whether or not done thoroughly, I presume if thoroughly done it is based on reasons.

Some people think there is a reason for excluding 7th and earlier generations.

Certainly MS should explain why the 7300U is not in their list of compatible processors. It is ridiculous for a two-year old model from a mainstream manufacturer to not be compatible.

As for being able to install without 'issues', I am reminded of the question "What do you have when you tinker with software until it appears to work?" ;-)

BTW, processor speed rating is not the problem.

My i5-7300U is rated faster than my i5-8250U, 2.60 vs 1.60, MS' minimum requirement is 1.00GHz, yet my 7300 U is not compatible.

Internal workings I do not know about.

Number of cores in 7300U is 2 vs 4 in 8250U, MS' minimum is 2.

Intel has created a Tower of Babel.

Microsloppy's page answering 'What's the difference between Windows 10 and 11" is vague but seems all about what I call User Interface.

Sure could use improving, but why change version number and raise hardware requirement?

Bunch of stumbling fools it seems.
Last edited by keithsketchley on Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Windows 11 Compatibility.

#84 Post by timsuomi » Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:07 am

With recent market analysis data (don't remember the source), there are millions and millions of business / enterprise computers and laptops that do not match the W11 update requirements.

Yes, they are not in the front line for requesting rapid updates, but still, they have a significant impact on OS share for MSFT. So let's see what happens...

MS has also officially communicated the 'loophole' (through registry modification) for enabling the update for non-compatible machines (mainly due to TPM and CPU)... Do those really stop receiving OS / security updates...

I think personally that there might be some changes (to the update compatibility) in the air...

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