T60

[hhmcsv]

At my birthday last summer I got a T440, which I am pretty happy with. And my old T60 got redundant - but a lovely candidate for trying Win10. All of my T60's and also the T440 are running Win 8.1, which I find a good system.
But, download of the "Evaluation copy" (build 9879) went smooth, and I first tried to load it on to a USB-memorystick for booting of the T60, which in the meantime was given an redundant harddisk for the experiment.
But the T60 would not boot from the USB-memory, instead I invested in burning a DVD.
Bootup and install went completely without hitches, and there is no driver issues in "device manager".

So far (one hour of experience!) I like it, no issues so far .
Impressive I find on hardware from 2006

[hhmcsv]

So, a bit further in the testing:

Its pretty fast starting up, under 30secs fully functional with a mechanical HDD (albeit 7200 rpm).

Google Crome seems to have problems with syncronizing user data, wants the password, but no success.

The very useful Lenovo utilities: Active protection system, OSD (Hotkeys) and Power manager (W7 compatability) installed without problems. But Lenovo Thinkvantage Update System fails when trying to download updates - but that is a system I am generally trying to avoid.

Still no driver issues or other malfunctions

[hhmcsv]

So, a T60 born with XP and has lived through W7, W8, W8.1 seems to be able to live on using Win10

[JGTC.co.jp]

Hello fellow members,

Just reporting on a successful installation of Windows 10 Technical Preview on my Signature's T60p, with no issues while installing most of the drivers and utilities (Except for Power Manager, which had to be installed in Compatibility Mode).

Right now I'm typing this message from IE Preview, and it feels smooth and responsive so far (I upgraded my machine to 3 GB of RAM prior to this installation).

If you need further details while I'm testing the overall performance of my 'Pad, do not hesitate to post a reply.

Kind regards,

[brchan]

Nice that the upgrades went well. The T60 and even the T4x series still have quite a bit of life left in them. Its nice that the cpu performance growth rate is exponential, while the system requirements for applications and OS are rather linear.

[Norway Pad]

Just reporting on a successful installation of Windows 10 Technical Preview on my Signature's T60p, with no issues while installing most of the drivers and utilities

Good to know! Just out of curiosity: Did you also install the driver and system software for the graphics? No issues there either? I know some of this caused issues with Win8.1, and Win10 seems pretty similar when it comes to dealing with system software.

[Pokrzept]

Just reporting on a successful installation of Windows 10 Technical Preview on my Signature's T60p, with no issues while installing most of the drivers and utilities

Good to know! Just out of curiosity: Did you also install the driver and system software for the graphics? No issues there either? I know some of this caused issues with Win8.1, and Win10 seems pretty similar when it comes to dealing with system software.

No clue about OPs experience with ATI graphic drivers, but from my experience I can say that I had no problem with T60 Vista drivers - it worked like a charm without compatibility mode. What's even better my system installation was made on T61 with Quadro 140m first and few days after that I swapped hdd with T60p/FireGL V5200 and it started flawlessly - system detected new hardware and installed proper drivers (everything beside graphic card and IRDA) on 1st boot.

[Norway Pad]

Ok. Just curious, as I have now determined that the ATI / CCC package made my Win8 -> Win8.1 update crash, and Fast Startup had to be disabled to make Win8.1 work at all with these drivers installed. Even now Windows Explorer hangs randomly, which I think might be related to the graphic drivers as well. So Win8.1 in general has a problem with the ATI / CCC Vista software, and I was curious to know if Win10 maybe behaved differently.

[Pokrzept]

Well I haven't had much time to test this setup I mentioned for a longer time - I just unlocked motherboard and assambled it in last sunday and I had to leave my place till friday in a business matter. Everything seemed to be perfectly fine but I'll do some more tests in upcoming weekend and let you know how did it end.

[Norway Pad]

Good, do that. Particularly interested in any issues with unresponsive pc after bootup, and also hang in Windows Explorer. If Win10 works good, that might be the way to go with the T60 in the future.

[JGTC.co.jp]

@Norway Pad, Pokrzept: I installed the Lenovo FireGL V5250 Drivers for my Machine through the ATI Setup Executable, without starting it in Compatibility mode; System detected the card correctly, and there were no problems within the installation process. After a Driver Install Restart, I noticed that CCC refused to start and gave two warnings about not loading files or one of their Dependencies (Particularly CCC.Implementation and MOM.Implementation, if I remember correctly). The driver as such is stable, and to this date I haven't received any Windows Display Driver crash/recovery notifications and thus no random blackouts (though I haven't tested the card for full-blown Direct3D and OpenGL performance). Do not hesitate to reply or PM me if you guys need additional information.

HTH,

[Norway Pad]

Thanks for the update. The error you got shows that all isn't working 100%, but I could live without CCC if everything else works fine. So there is at least an indication that WIn10 *might* behave better with the ATI graphics driver than Win8.1. Approximately one or two 10-15 seconds hangs in Explorer pr. day. No big issue, but slightly annoying.

[Pokrzept]

Ok, I did as I told, and I can share some results of my tests:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/keq ... 60_w10.png

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/w1d ... rk_t60.png

My test-unit bases on T60p 2007-FBG with replaced CPU. Operating System seems to work almost flawlessly. I do have one problem with resuming from sleep - my screen becomes black right after resume and i have to suspend and resume it again to see login screen. But as I said before this system was installed on my spare t61 with quadro graphics and I still have both nVidia and ATI tools installed. Today I'll do clean installation and check will it fix this problem.

MOD WARNING: PICTURES ARE WAY TOO BIG, READ THE FORUM RULES, ESPECIALLY SECTION 5 !!!

[JGTC.co.jp]

People, thanks for sharing your knowledge!

@Pokrzept: From your shared screens, it seems that you were able to install the Catalyst software suite and your CCC runs correctly. Would you please share your walkthrough with this? I remember that Windows 10 prompted for a missing .NET Installation required for the program to run but, as I mentioned previously, I performed both installs and CCC fails to start, citing not found assemblies. Thanks in Advance.

Also, I'd like to report that I have a particular issue after resuming from sleep: I had the original ipw3945 card with both Microsoft and Lenovo Drivers, and the connection to my WiFi AP dropped, refusing to connect again manually (even when turning the radio off and on again). I have patched my BIOS and installed a WiFi Link 5100 from a T500, with testing for the mentioned issue pending; will update when performed. In the meantime, feel free to comment on this based on your personal experiences.

Update: It seems that ATI/AMD has already been working on a solution (Link is below), but, as this is Windows 10, I'm not that willing to perform such a solution, as it is written for systems which weren't shipping with a particular version of .NET Framework required by CCC; also, it implies handling registry entries and third party cleaning tools which might not work on this Technical Preview.

EDIT: PIC Warning request removed, added workaround for the mentioned issue, which can be read at http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-article ... ation.aspx

[hhmcsv]

So, after some time of testing the latest build - 9926 - the gold plating seems to fade somehow. There is a number of issues still not resolved

1. The T60 startup-time has deteriorated after installation of programs and apps and the numerous Windows update runs. So I am back to Win 8.1 level, so the conclusion so far on this machine is that MS did not provide any improvement here.
2. Other browsers than IE are very slow in starting - I have tried Opera, Firefox and Crome. All works, but Opera crashes now and then.
3. Video playback is very bad, stuttering pictures and lack of synchronization between sound and picture. I appreciate that the HW here is not optimal anymore (X1300), but I do not remember it as being this bad. Again, a little better on IE than on the other browsers, but not much.
4. DVD playback using VLC does not function, and the MS Media Player does not do Dvd's.

So I am looking forward to the next build!

[hhmcsv]

Well, it seems that on my system, the ATI catalyst suite for win8 32bit is working, and now the driver for the ATI Mobility Radeon X1300 seems to run fine, with good video performance on streaming TV.
Downloaded as 13-1-legacy_vista_win7_win8_32_dd_ccc.exe
The driver now installed (just running a driver update in device manager) is version 8.383.1.1000 dated 21/06/2007.

Update: That was a one-off solution, working fine on the running updated system. But when restarting, after the boot screen, the display is just black. So for now I have an unoperable T60 and have to figure out how to get back

[hhmcsv]

So, the long awaited refresh of Technical Preview, build 10041 arrived here today. The update function was with no problems, but something is radically wrong with this version on T60 hardware. The startup-time is more than doubled compared to the previous

[hhmcsv]

With some difficulty, I found a place to download a .iso-file version of the Tech Preview 10041 and installed from that to a completely clean machine. That made a lot of difference, now it seems stable and also fast in the startup - about 30 secs.

Strange that the Windows-Update version functioned so badly

[Pokrzept]

Quick update:

Our german fellows managed to mod 12.11 Catalyst drivers and it seems that both driver and CCC run perfectly fine on both W8.1 and W10. You can find more info at: http://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/175965 ... -10!/page4
You can also download mentioned drivers directly at: http://www.mediafire.com/download/3stqh ... V4+BETA.7z

When it comes to latest build of W10 you can download it at: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... pdate-1503
I haven't had enough luck to update my installation properly so I'll give a try to fresh install of 10041 and let you know how does it run on one of my T60 Frankie.

[Norway Pad]

Our german fellows managed to mod 12.11 Catalyst drivers and it seems that both driver and CCC run perfectly fine on both W8.1 and W10.

Great! I assume X1300 vs. X1400 doesn't make any difference for the use of this driver? I will definitely try this on my Win8.1 X1300 T60 tonight, hopefully I can get rid of the random explorer hang and be able to turn fast boot back on.

..I'll give a try to fresh install of 10041 and let you know how does it run on one of my T60 Frankie.

Is that a "real" Frankenpad, with a T61 nVidia board? If so, let us know if there are any issues, particularly with nVidia graphics. My T601 is one of the computers I intend to move over to Win10 when the time comes, so I can enjoy 4:3 IPS on a supported OS for as long as the hardware platform keeps up.

[hhmcsv]

Well, I tried the above solution on my T60 running W10 build 10041. It works better than the "Basic" MS driver, but startup is corrupted by a black screen which can only be remedied by abuse of the Power button.

[Norway Pad]

I am not home yet to test it, but this sounds like the same issue I ran into with the ATI driver/ CCC in Win8.1.

Hans Henrik: Before you remove this driver, can you boot it up to the presumable black screen and see if Fn+F4 (putting it to sleep) and waking it back up makes the screen come on? That was how I solved this issue temporarily on my Win8.1 install. I later disabled Fast Boot which solved this issue permanently. If you want to go as far as trying that, is all up to you.

Edit: Just installed the above driver on the T60, and it just locked up during boot afterwards. I tried 4-5 times, but all it responded to was a hard restart. Luckily I created a restore point beforehand, and the fact that fast boot is turned off made me able to enter the advanced startup menu and revert it to the restore point. So this modded driver doesn't seem to work on all installs. But with all the previous issues in mind I suspect my Win8 -> Win8.1 upgrade path has broken something in the install. So we shouldn't make any conclusions or valid advices based on my experiences. Maybe except from one: Create a restore point and a boot USB first. Messing with drivers like this has the potential to create lots of hassle for you if they don't work.

[Pokrzept]

@Norway Pad: Drivers that I've mentioned shall work with all T60-gen ATI cards. I haven't had much time to test it properly but I managed to install it on T60 mobo with Radeon X1400 without any issues. It did worked flawlessly on both 10041 and previous W10 builds.
About my T60F I have mentioned before it is T60 mobo with CoreDuo T2500 and radeon X1400 installed into 14" 4:3 T61 shell. I do have 2 working units with T61 Frankenpad mobos - 1 placed in T60p shell, and spare one that have not been modified yet. I haven't had much time to test W10 on it but as far as I remember everything beside MC8775 worked out-of-box with few minor windows updates. WWAN card worked properly with W7 drivers and MWCONN utility.

If you need any extra tests just let me know so I can do some work for you in next week - at this very moment im on weekend business trip typing on my freshly acquired x201 SSD/Windows 10 combo. This little fellow runs with a speed of light and every piece of hardware (and nearly every piece of software) works properly - WWAN modem included.

[Norway Pad]

Pokrzept, thanks for the offer. The fact that the modded ATI driver didn't work on my T60 is probably more due to my dodgy install rather something being wrong with the driver. So no testing is probably needed there. Hadn't it been for the fact that this T60 is my daily driver, and I dread the work it is to do a clean install, I would have done a clean Win8.1 install a long time ago. I might just have to bite the bullet and do it, though.

For the T61 based Frankenpad, I was wondering if Win10 worked flawlessly on it. And from what you write, it seems like it does. Did you use a nVidia graphics driver, or did you go with the generic MS one? The reason I ask is that I would prefer to move my Frankenpad directly from Win7 to Win10 instead of Win8.1, where I need 3rd party software to have a Start menu.

[hhmcsv]

@ Norway Pad:

The black screen on startup is not completely black, a cursor is present but without the possibility to do anything with it apart from moving it around the screen.

And yes, Fn + F4 does send it off, and a repeated Fn + F4 brings the normal desktop screen up and running.

Still not a very satisfactory startup procedure

[Norway Pad]

Thanks for the verification, this is the exact same thing as happened to me. Turn off Fast Startup, and you'll be fine. Check my post for a more detailed presentation. http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 40#p750349 Note that I still have slight issues with random hang, so it didn't get 100% fixed, but the laptop is fully usable as a daily driver.

[hhmcsv]

On build 10049 some new development:
By using the "sleep" mode on closing the lid, the startup time is now under 30secs. And the startup is coming on using the X1300-driver (ATI Mobility Radeon X1300 driver dated 21.jun07, 8.383.1.1000) with no problems, so now the video performance is fine.

What happens on a proper restart remains to be seen, maybe I will have to use the Fn+F4 trick

Update:
Oh yes, the Fn+F4 trick is neccesary on a cold startup , but from sleep it is working beautifully.
It seems that the different browsers have their own issues showing streaming video content. The video quality is fine on Crome, and the sound seems well syncronized, although there is short disturbances in the sound. IE lacks syncronization, the new Spartan browser (which I find very rough at the edges) seems to work the best.

So maybe afterall, the T60 has a afterlife on Win10.

[Norway Pad]

Have you tried to disable Fast Startup, just to see if that does the trick? This is the same as Win8.1 did on my T60. From sleep (Whether it was closing of the lid or Fn-F4) or a Restart, it worked fine, but on a cold boot it got the gray screen.

Win10 seems to behave much the same as Win8.1 in many respects, so I think Win10 is a viable option on a T60 and indeed on a Frankenpad (T61). I will also try Win10 on my T43P, even though single core and 2GB RAM are starting to become limiting factors for much these days.

[hhmcsv]

@ Norway Pad,

Oh yes, by disabling "fast startup" the display comes up fine. But a restart takes forever.......... And a cold start takes over 3mins - not good

But I discovered something (which I probably should have years ago) is that enabling the "sleep" feature on closing the lid (in power settings in control panel), the t60 indeed goes to sleep, but also wakes up instantly when opening the lid again. Almost like a new laptop.....

The power drain on battery is of course notably, about 30% over 24 hrs, but as most my family has the laptops connected to a charger most the time, this i no problem.

So again, this last build of Win10 (10049) seems to perform perfectly on this antique heirloom.

[Norway Pad]

Ok, thanks for trying. With Fast Startup disabled, my bootup times didn't get so bad that they can be defined as "forever". (But everything is relative) With my T60 (Win8.1 / SSD) a cold boot takes 37 seconds from the moment I press the power button to the desktop comes up, while a restart takes 44 seconds from I click Restart to the desktop is up. So they use the same time, as those 7 extra seconds is the time it takes for the laptop for shut down.

Note that these times are with the laptop docked, with lots of peripherals connected. I think it takes 4-5 seconds less with the laptop undocked, but that's just a guess. I also estimate that disabling Fast Startup maybe added 10 seconds.

Once again: Thanks for confirming the possible extended future of T60 on the Win10 platform. I assume the T60 hardware is outdated before Win10's EOL.

Edit: I either overlooked it, or you added while I was posting that a cold start takes over 3 minutes. That puts us in the area of close to forever.