Windows 10 and why I don't care for it much.

[kony]

And I have a disc of Puppy Linux that was given to me years ago if anyone wants to say how that is.

If you never used linux before, don't use this CD. Download a proper linux distribution for home use (I recommend Linux Mint 17 with MATE graphic environment for you). First of all, Puppy is very light therefore lacks drivers and software and it is a very basic OS - after all it is supposed to run on "everything". Second thing is, the version you have on your CD is probably quite old and out of date. You might run into problems due to that.

No need to be scared of trying out linux though, just download LM17 ISO and run it first via liveCD to see how it looks. Everything should run without any additional actions, at worst you will need to install GPU or wifi drivers (but if you have Thinkpad that's unlikely). You will notice that it's pretty easy to use it even if you never saw linux before. You don't have to run terminal (aka console) at all and use it "like Windows", though it's likely that you will start using terminal with time for your own convenience.

[RealBlackStuff]

I have an original Lenovo DVD with SLED 10, a.k.a. SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10.
It's a DVD with P/N: 44Y2624, FRU: 44Y2623, dating from January 2008.
Strangely enough it came only on 14.1" widescreen T61 machines.

[ajkula66]

Didn't IBM before they sold the PC to Lenovo sell ThinkPads with Linux OS as option over Windows? I remember seeing the option for Linux OS instead of Windows Vista.

If not Lenovo should start giving the option to sell ThinkPads with a select OS of Linux the customer wants.

This shall not be too hard for them, Dell allready offers preinstalled Linux distro on both consumer and business laptop series.

Lenovo used to offer Linux as an option, but that one got old fast due to the lack of interest. In all reality, anyone who *really* wants to run *nix will have no problem installing their own distro of choice.

[bit_twiddler]

Linux runs pretty well on Thinkpads (and Dells and probably HP elitebooks) because
IBM (and Dell and HP) are big suppliers of Linux-based servers. In fact, that is where
they generate most of their revenue.

Nonetheless, Linux will probably never be able to replace Windows or the Mac because
it is too fragmented to provide a large market for ISVs. For political reasons, it will probably
remain so.

While Linux is, IMHO, the best OS for software developers, engineers, and scientists because
of its flexibility, that very same flexibility and customizability works against it for running
mainstream applications. If Linux were going to replace Windows as the mainstream desktop
OS, it would have already done so.

[ajkula66]

It seems that M$ is applying some last-minute-damage-control here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleath ... d-updates/

I'm still in the observer mode, very much so...

[RealBlackStuff]

Plenty support for Linux on ThinkPads: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki

[Norway Pad]

Makes me happy to see. Surprising to see it being offered as a separate tool, and not integrated in the OS. On the other hand it can be a good thing, as the tool will be reserved for users who know what they're doing.

[hhhd1]

It seems that M$ is applying some last-minute-damage-control here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleath ... d-updates/

I'm still in the observer mode, very much so...

Over the last few days, the Internet has been awash with reports of issues with Windows 10′s forced updates interfering with other applications

No body saw this coming ?

Wonder if it delay automatic download, and allows for users to block updates before they download or install

[pianowizard]

Now that Windows 10 has arrived, I thought more forum members would have written reviews about it. I guess most people have already played with the various previews in the past several months and have nothing new to say? By contrast, I never tried any of the previews and used Windows 10 for the first time yesterday, when two of my computers (the HP 8200 Elite and 8300 Elite minitowers) automatically downloaded the upgrade files early in the morning. The upgrade process was surprisingly fast, taking only about half an hour I think.

I haven't explored much of 10's new features yet, but as far as the user interface is concerned, I was initially shocked by how much things had been shuffled around, again -- didn't 8 have enough shuffling already? For example, the Control Panel no longer has Windows Update. Also, it has become harder to personalize the desktop area, and I still haven't figured out how to make the taskbar gray like it had been since Windows 95.

There were two potential improvements that I had looked forward to: the Microsoft Edge browser, and a performance boost. I tried Edge for a while and concluded that it's not for me. For instance, it doesn't even let me customize the home page (Alt + Home), and when I open a new window (Ctrl + N), it doesn't replicate the current window like IE does (which is a very convenient feature). Furthermore, when I open a new window, it's either a full-screen window or a tiny XGA-sized window, whereas IE remembers the size of the previously opened window, another IE feature that I like. In terms of performance, I haven't noticed any improvement. If anything, 10 feels slightly slower than 7 did, despite the fact that 10 takes up much less hard drive space, ~8GB less than when I had Windows 7.

I might like 10 more after exploring it further (e.g. I still haven't tried Cortana), but so far, I prefer Windows 8, and possibly 7 as well. I do think it's worth upgrading from 7 to 10 though, and will upgrade most of my computers that currently have 7. 10 gives me almost 6 more years of Microsoft support than does Windows 7 (Oct 2025 vs. Jan 2020), and it should also be more secure than 7. Hopefully, after using 10 for several more days, I will find it more stable than 7 as well.

[ajkula66]

Now that Windows 10 has arrived, I thought more forum members would have written reviews about it.

Here you go, old friend:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=118528

[hhhd1]

I plan on reviewing some specific points regarding privacy and updates in the next few days.

Will try to see what control could i have over those things in Enterprise / Enterprise LTSB editions.

[ajkula66]

I plan on reviewing some specific points regarding privacy and updates in the next few days.

Will try to see what control could i have over those things in Enterprise / Enterprise LTSB editions.

I'll be watching and waiting for your upcoming reviews...very closely.

[pointyhat]

Well windows 10 is a write-off for me. I'm not going to pretend otherwise or wait and see. It doesn't work on my X201 and literally everything about it is a decline in usability and privacy since Windows 8.1. The general direction of Windows has been down since 7 so I'm out. Decided to spend a day doing the final switch to Linux on the desktop. I've been using it on the server side of things for about 15 years so this is not a big change for me.

So, here I sit on a CentOS 7 desktop and it's wonderful. Even the 3G modem in it works out of the box without having to piddle around frigging another vendor's driver package like I had to do on Windows 8.1. WinPhone (Lumia 640) is on ebay and I've got a nice Nokia 106 dumbphone for £20 this morning.

[kony]

Here's an interesting thing about the new Microsoft OS:

https://i.imgur.com/iHge6RJ.jpg

MOD Warning: picture size allowed is max. 50KB.
please read the Forum Rules, especially Section 5!

[ThinkPad560X]

I ordered a HDD just for the Windows 10, so no worries if I don't like it, maybe it will be installed with Linux if I don't like it. I read that their is spying on your files and searches. https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10 ... 02898.html

Also is their a way to uninstall the Cortana? I don't care and dont want a talking voice like a smartphone on my desktop. I read 2 links so far and all say no its built into the windows.

[ajkula66]

Also is their a way to uninstall the Cortana? I don't care and dont want a talking voice like a smartphone on my desktop.

Maybe with a registry hack of some kind. Plain old school attempts to uninstall the voice of doom and gloom yielded no results for me.

YMMV.

[ThinkPad560X]

Well my desktop can't spy on me physical, My desktop don't have a Webcam or a mic. I think theirs some work online somewhere being done to uninstall the Cortana, just give it some time.

[pianowizard]

I read that their is spying on your files and searches. https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10 ... 02898.html

Some people are making a big deal out of this. You need to realize that you are already spied on in dozens of different ways, e.g. all your Google and Facebook searches are saved somewhere in the cloud, and smartphones spy on you even more. By getting Windows 10, you would be losing just a tiny bit more of your privacy. Windows 10 significantly worsens privacy only if you have already been avoiding Google products, online banking, online shopping, credit cards, smartphones, social media, YouTube, etc. etc.

Also is their a way to uninstall the Cortana? I don't care and dont want a talking voice like a smartphone on my desktop. I read 2 links so far and all say no its built into the windows.

Most software, including Windows, has lots of features that you and I will never use. Just don't use them; Cortana won't say a word if you don't open it in the first place. Sure, Cortana takes up some space on your hard drive, but Windows 10 uses 8-10GB less than Windows 7, so if space isn't an issue for you now, it still won't be after you have upgraded to 10.

After one more day of using Windows 10, I have warmed up to it much more. It looks prettier than 7 and is also more comfortable to use than 7, especially the Start Menu which really combines the best of the Classic and Metro Menus. 10 may also be more stable than 7. On my HP 8300 Elite, which is my primary computer, I used to get the "Explorer has stopped" error almost daily, but after upgrading to 10 two days ago, I haven't encountered it yet.

Yesterday I slightly preferred 7 over 10, but today it's the reverse. With time, I might even end up liking 10 more than 8/8.1 and Vista. With a price tag of $0, upgrading to 10 is a no-brainer.

[precip9]

Microsoft's bad attitude:
http://www.extremetech.com/internet/211 ... windows-10

[Norway Pad]

At present time I have no access to any of my upgrade eligible computers, so I haven't had the chance to upgrade to / install Win10 yet. I really welcome the UI, but after reading this, it seems like some details needs reliable workarounds created or simply be ironed out by Microsoft out before I will move any of my daily drivers to this platform. Particularly the forced update part. So it will be installed on the T420 for some months of testing before I put it in production. I also planned to go down to the mall downtown and buy a Win10 Pro box from the Microsoft stand there, as that saves me $100 compared to buying it back home. It will be useful to have a universal retail license, not tied to an upgrade, as I probably want to keep some of my Win7/8 licenses. But we'll see, it's still a lot of money, and it'll give me a physical install media that will be outdated pretty fast with all the updates that most likely will come.

When we talk alternatives, there are some. I'm typing this on a T61 with Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon, which has so far been a totally free and awesome experience. Even some of the Thinkpad Fn+Fx combos gives a menu or OSD, and toggles the correct function. For the minor Linux quirks, I have gotten so used to the more specialized Linux distros, that I don't mind them anymore. And Mint is so much like Windows that I sometimes forget that this isn't Windows, and I'm only reminded when I need to look through menus or run something. Apart from things that won't work in Linux (Whatever that might be), I could have survived with this OS and this laptop only for a long time. So all isn't lost, and it's after all voluntarily to move to Win10. In your work environment it will undoubtedly be forced on you, yes. But that will be the Enterprise version, and in a corporate environment, changing various settings normally isn't up to the individual user anyway.

[precip9]

..., and it's after all voluntarily to move to Win10. In your work environment it will undoubtedly be forced on you, yes. But that will be the Enterprise version, and in a corporate environment, changing various settings normally isn't up to the individual user anyway.

The problem is acute when one's work environment is one's home.

[Norway Pad]

The problem is acute when one's work environment is one's home.

I would assume that you aren't forced to update immidiately, at least not until things have matured a bit and possible workarounds and perhaps 3rd party solutions have come up. But in case you are, I can see how this can be a potential problem if you don't like how things are done in Win10.

Btw. I have used Stardocks Start with my Win8 / 8.1 installs ever since I first installed it, so I'm a registered customer, and yesterday I got an email that Stardocks already have the same application for Win10. Which basically gives the Win7 Start menu back. Even though that particular solution might not be such a big deal with Win10's UI as it used to be (particularly with Win8), it shows that workarounds and solutions for most things eventually will be there, in one way or the other.

[precip9]

... it shows that workarounds and solutions for most things eventually will be there, in one way or the other.

That is not the big problem. Refer upwards in this thread about how the forcing of Windows 10 updates could break programs.

Many of us use big programs, not "apps." We use programs that serve smaller than the mass market. Many of these programs are fragile with respect to the environment. Read up the thread. The real problem is described: loss of control over Windows update.

[Norway Pad]

Many of us use big programs, not "apps." We use programs that serve smaller than the mass market. Many of these programs are fragile with respect to the environment. Read up the thread. The real problem is described: loss of control over Windows update.

I am pretty sure I caught that detail, and I have earlier commented on the following post describing a Microsoft tool issued for this:

It seems that M$ is applying some last-minute-damage-control here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleath ... d-updates/

I'm not sure if this tool allows you to do exactly what will help you and others in your situation, but it seems like the problem already has gotten some attention from Microsoft.

I didn't like it either, just to be clear on that. Depending on how it works out over time, forced updates can be a deal breaker for me as well. If it can't be turned off, it definitely puts Win10 in a different boat than any other previous Windows version.

[precip9]

It wouldn't fix the problem described further up in the thread, where DotNet 4.5.2 breaks Corel Painter 2015. DotNet is not a driver; it's a runtime environment for code compiled with DotNet libraries.

And the example, which is actually a current problem, occurred with an OS that is by philosophy mostly stable on features. By contrast, Windows 10 promises forced evolution of features, which means more tinkering with the libraries, which will inevitably break some big programs that are crucial to some people.

The problem remains.

It probably isn't on the top of your mind because you probably use very popular programs that receive a lot of attention. I use Corel Painter 2015, which probably has under 50,000 users worldwide. I'm building a dual CPU XEON server based workstation with 128GB of server RAM to run it better. Why should I risk Microsoft stopping my operation by forcing some piece of fluff down my throat?

[Norway Pad]

I have always gotten .Net Framework updates presented along with regular driver and OS updates, and from what I can tell, stopping these is the main purpose of this mentioned tool. But now I'm talking about programs and issues I have no personal experience with, and should probably defer from further discussions before I step on someone's toes. Your arguments leads us to the conclusion that Win10 in it's current form probably won't work for you. What the solution will be is probably up to you, I don't see any.

Like I said, I don't like this any more more than you do, but the question is what we can do about it. Except from staying with an older OS until its EOL and/or consider moving to other OS platforms if Microsoft don't change the update policy. I have an option in Linux, you might not have that.

[ThinkPad560X]

I guess I could ask this, Does Windows 10 Enterprise get the normal look and feel of Windows 7 plus you get selective updates when you want witch I like that, I hate when the computer would just restart when in the middle of something so I switched it to download updates and let me decide when to install. And does the Cortana feature come in enterprise too as I said I didn't want. I also read that Windows 10 Professional, you will get selective updates and that Windows 10 Home is the only one that is forceful with no options to stop updates. For me I guess I wouldn't have to worry as all my versions of Windows are all Professional to Ultimate Editions and I think it would upgrade me to the Windows 10 Professional.


If I ever did reserve Windows 10, will it download into the download folder with a Product Key so I can then burn the iso and install onto a new HDD or does it have to be on that Drive of that upgraded OS? It is still getting installed onto the same PC but just its own OS HDD. If so I will just install my Windows 8 Pro on the new HDD and get the Windows 10 Pro update and burn disc and install fresh copy. But the other problem is my one HDD is using the Windows 8 Pro key Updated to 8.1 Pro, so will it not work? To make it easier I said before I have a HDD to every version of Windows (95-8.1) so if I need to use something that needed that OS I have it and no emulation or problems and I know 8 drives is a lot but I have the room for them. If not I was planning on getting the DVD version anyway to put with all my Windows CDs and floppies. I looked up and it is still coming out for DVD. their was a post online that Microsoft was getting rid of disc versions and using USB flash drive but heres the link to the DVD. http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows ... windows+10

[ajkula66]

I guess I could ask this, Does Windows 10 Enterprise get the normal look and feel of Windows 7 plus you get selective updates when you want

Nope. And even the Enterprise edition might be hiding quite a few surprises.

And does the Cortana feature come in enterprise too as I said I didn't want.

It's there.

I also read that Windows 10 Professional, you will get selective updates and that Windows 10 Home is the only one that is forceful with no options to stop updates. For me I guess I wouldn't have to worry as all my versions of Windows are all Professional to Ultimate Editions and I think it would upgrade me to the Windows 10 Professional.

Nope. With Pro you can defer updates for a few months BUT you'll have to eventually install them. In order to defer them *for real* you need a tool that I linked to earlier in this thread - or elsewhere on the forum - otherwise they WILL get installed and I'm speaking from first-hand experience here.

[precip9]

I also read that Windows 10 Professional, you will get selective updates and that Windows 10 Home is the only one that is forceful with no options to stop updates.

Unfortunately, the above is not accurate. Windows 10 Enterprise will have selective updates. With Windows 10 Professional, there is an option to defer updates up to 8 months. If a problem affecting someone's Big Application Program is not fixed in 8 months, there is no workaround.

The problem is not just a Corel Painter problem. It is a problem of all users who use big programs with small user bases. Besides the mass-market software that has millions of users and gets lots of attention, there are also millions of users who use Big Programs that have relatively small client bases. These are the users that are adversely affected by the Windows 10 update policy.

An OS is not obsolete if it does what the user wants it to do. I want to run Painter 2015, Artrage, Photoshop CS5.5, LabView by National Instruments, MathCad, Autocad, Steinberg 4.5, browsers of my choice, Open Office, etc. I don't need The Cloud, sexy "look & feel", winky-blinky tiles, or what the bloggers say is the latest and greatest. To me, today's emphasis on glitz, and look-and-feel that just doesn't feel right, is just silly. Computers should be more rational than fashion. Would you change your shoes at the command of Nike marketing?

We live in a silly age. Windows 7 is my old shoe. I'm sticking with it until EOL and possibly after.

[Qing Dao]

I have not tried out Windows 10, and probably don't have much interest in doing so. Win 7 is working fine on my one-year-old Dell XPS 8700, as well as on numerous Thinkpads. I also have Linux Mint 16 or 17 on almost all of my later Thinkpads starting with the T40s and into the T60s. As I gain more experience with Linux Mint 17, I find that it is a superb OS for my needs, and it has none of the intrusive updating processes which Microsoft uses. True there are updates waiting for you, but you don't really have to install them. What's more, one can learn the terminal commands ( sudo apt ) as need arises, and gradually one gets better at tweaking things to fine-tune the OS based on one's needs. And there are close to 50,000 pieces of software in the Package Manager, vetted and installable for your applications. Libre ( formerly Open) Office is also fully compatible with MS Office, so documents, spreadsheets and powerpoint files transfer seamlessly back and forth.

I agree completely. I too have switched to predominantly Linux Mint. I don't want to support Microsoft and no longer feel that I am stuck with them because I have to be. I even set my mother up with Linux Mint on her laptop. It works better for her than Windows did.

Didn't IBM before they sold the PC to Lenovo sell ThinkPads with Linux OS as option over Windows? I remember seeing the option for Linux OS instead of Windows Vista.

If not Lenovo should start giving the option to sell ThinkPads with a select OS of Linux the customer wants.

This shall not be too hard for them, Dell allready offers preinstalled Linux distro on both consumer and business laptop series.

Yes, but it is cheaper to just buy one with Windows installed and then install Linux on it. It used to be that you could get their computers, at least some of them, cheaper without Windows, but it hasn't been that way for over 5 years.