Windows 10 Privacy: Overblown panic

[Ibthink]

A very good article by Paul Thurrott on the privacy in Windows 10: https://www.petri.com/windows-10-privac ... on-matters

Some people should cool down a notch. Its not like cou can´t configure Windows 10 to not collect any personal data. The only thing you definitely can´t turn of in Home and Pro is the diagnosis data collection, which barely collects anything if you set it to Simple/Base (only error reports etc.).

[Kilkenny]

I don't agree that it's overblown. The argument that you can just turn it off doesn't impress me.

It's part of a disturbing trend of taking more and more from the user and constantly pushing the boundaries of privacy. It isn't just Microsoft either. If nobody pushes back, it's going to get much worse. We know that the overwhelming majority of people never change the defaults. Microsoft is deliberately exploiting their ignorance. Most people are not capable of making an informed decision about these issues. They don't understand how their data is used and how it can be abused. That's okay; not everyone should have to be an expert here. But it is the responsibility of people who understand how these systems work to explain it to people who don't. I would have no problem if people were sying "Okay, Windows is going to send everything I do to Microsoft and their trusted partners, and the people who the trusted partners sell to, and the people who hack the trusted partners, and the government, but I like the features it gives me and am willing to make this tradeoff to receive the functionality it offers". Informed tradeoffs are fine because they still keep Micrsoft on a leash.

But that's not what happens. What's optional today will be a non-optional default tomorrow once people get comfortable with it and Microsoft thinks they can get away with it. A lot of the author's arguments basically say "This isn't new; it was in Windows 8". Besides not making the feature okay, the fact that Microsoft has expanded ther scope of their privacy invasions is the point I'm trying to make. They assumed from the lack of outrage that they could get away with it again plus even more, so they did.

[exTPfan]

You can't turn off this:

"We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary..."

Terms of use agreement for Windows 10.

For many months, MS has been telling me that if I don't stop using XP, someone will break into my computer and steal all my stuff. Their solution: upgrade to Windows 10 and permit MS to break into my computer and steal all my stuff.

[Cigarguy]

I don't agree that it's overblown. The argument that you can just turn it off doesn't impress me.

It's part of a disturbing trend of taking more and more from the user and constantly pushing the boundaries of privacy. It isn't just Microsoft either. If nobody pushes back, it's going to get much worse. We know that the overwhelming majority of people never change the defaults. Microsoft is deliberately exploiting their ignorance. Most people are not capable of making an informed decision about these issues. They don't understand how their data is used and how it can be abused. That's okay; not everyone should have to be an expert here. But it is the responsibility of people who understand how these systems work to explain it to people who don't. I would have no problem if people were sying "Okay, Windows is going to send everything I do to Microsoft and their trusted partners, and the people who the trusted partners sell to, and the people who hack the trusted partners, and the government, but I like the features it gives me and am willing to make this tradeoff to receive the functionality it offers". Informed tradeoffs are fine because they still keep Micrsoft on a leash.

But that's not what happens. What's optional today will be a non-optional default tomorrow once people get comfortable with it and Microsoft thinks they can get away with it. A lot of the author's arguments basically say "This isn't new; it was in Windows 8". Besides not making the feature okay, the fact that Microsoft has expanded ther scope of their privacy invasions is the point I'm trying to make. They assumed from the lack of outrage that they could get away with it again plus even more, so they did.

I agree 100%. As an Android user, I've resigned myself to losing privacy when it comes to my Gmail, SMS and anything I do on my Android phone and tablets. However, I do require/want a more secure and private computing environment when it comes to my laptop and desktops. I believe clouds is great for making rain but not a good place to store my tax returns, photos, music and other stuff. I like, need and want that separation between what is semi-private (phones and tables) and a place (laptop and desktop) that is more private.

I hope people continue to scream bloody murder over this.

[ajkula66]

Mr. Thurrott, huh?

I've read a lot of his stuff in regards to W8.x and now this...

Lenin had an *excellent* term for people like Mr. Thurrott: useful idiot.

As for the privacy, Lenin would be proud of MS. As would many others of his ilk.

Thanks but no thanks. Ever.

[Dekks]

Thurrott is a paid shill for M$ always has been.

[Cigarguy]

Mr. Thurrott, huh?

I've read a lot of his stuff in regards to W8.x and now this...

Lots of MS advocates and fanboys on Web. There's even some on this forum. What they will you and me is that the problem is you and me. It's the "new" trend you see, everybody is going this route. "Trust" us and our "Trusted Partners"--whoever that maybe--we know what's best for you. We are doing this to serve you better.

[coolcat37]

My god what are you people talking about. Didn't you all get the memo? It's a-OK to give access to all your files and information to a big corp. I frankly can't understand why people are whin1ng about their privacy.

Let's get one thing clear, if you're concerned about your privacy you are either a) a loser, b) paranoid or c) both.

I just can't understand you people are still lagging behind. It's fantastic to give up your privacy. I mean that's what all the hipsters do. They advocate it, on their cool and 'in' blogs. So we must follow, (cuz we're the puppet people).
Frankly as long as Google can keep pumping me full of adverts, I still can like and share other people's cr4p on Facebook and I can upload selfies to tumblr I will be happy. Between all those activities I go to Starbucks to pay premium money for some tasteless goo with a catchy name and I put stuff online on my blog which some people call pollution but that's just ignorant.
In public the people will see me sporting expensive clothing, a beard, and the newest 16:9 flimsy laptop. It doesn't feel good, it's got a crappy screen and doesn't type well but I've got the latest one, so I am cool! I take a lot of selfies and whatever I do some big corp knows about it, that's so progressive! I've got nothing to hide, so nothing to fear. Right, brothers and sisters? (all together): "Yeah, that's true. Uhu. He's right"

All the blogs say Windows 10 is the shiznit! It's cool and hip and everything you ever wanted. So give in or go get your little hat. You know which one. Yes that's right.

And don't let it ever be said Microsoft didn't care about you. They are actually doing you and all their customers a favor. So stop causing panic and just give in. Give in my friends, there is absolutely nothing to be worried about. Ever.

Come to think of it. Maybe it's time to just donate your body for scientific experiences to Microsoft. I mean sure, they put you in their new machine called virtual reality/mandatory adverts. It's just like the world your living in now, but you get adverts every 15 min pumped into your brain. You'll be able to 'click' them away in 7 seconds. And in their user agreement of 90 pages there is stated they don't ever have to release your physical body.

And guys, let's not forget AI. That's gonna help us with all the information they know about you. Think of the possibilities?

Am I being too harsh on these 'oldschool cavemen' who are causing panic? I don't know. But if you are reading this and understand my drift then you know exactly what time it is.

[Cigarguy]

^^^

[dr_st]

Between all those activities I go to Starbucks to pay premium money for some tasteless goo with a catchy name

Their espresso-based drinks are alright, but I can get better coffee here. The one thing I really like about Starbucks is the Frappuccinos, with the whipped cream on top, mmm. That's actually the only reason I'm sad Starbucks went out of business in Israel, because I so far I cannot find anything quite the same among the plethora of local coffee shops.

[RealBlackStuff]

If you've ever been to Italy, you'll only want some decent Italian espresso, made with decent beans, not the overpriced Starbucks junk!
Also, most Americans have absolutely no idea what decent coffee even LOOKS like, let alone tastes like!
And I absolutely detest ANY form of this watered down, undrinkable, crappy liquid that they call "coffee" here (in the USA).

Since I live in the boondocks (* see below), I have my own espresso machine, a Saeco Magic Comfort Plus:



Throw in the beans, fill the tank with water, push a button and voila: your own espresso!

* boondocks: any area in the country that is quiet, has few people living in it, and is a long way away from a town or city.



PS: and I also thoroughly dislike Windows 10

[dr_st]

Yes, I've been to Italy.

I have an espresso machine at home, but a simple one - that takes pre-ground coffee (or pods). At work we have the bigger, industrial-grade machines, similar to yours, which also grind the beans.

And yes - I've never met a single non-American who had anything good to say about American coffee.

[pointyhat]

I use one of those Tassimo things. 90% as good, 5% of the effort and most importantly 0% the cleaning

[JohnD.]

I am old school, I grew up making it on the stove with a 3 cup Bialetti Espresso maker using El Pico coffee. I still do from time to time.

Anyone want a home made biscotti? My mother would make a ton for Christmas and for our local church's feast day. Mom is gone but I do love a good biscotti.

I am sorry guys, I know we are talking about Windows 10. I am going to wait until the dust settles and see what Win10 is about. This might take a year or two. I used to get excited about new operating systems from M$ but I don't anymore. Maybe it's wisdom or getting older or both.

Take care,
John

[coolcat37]

If you've ever been to Italy, you'll only want some decent Italian espresso, made with decent beans, not the overpriced Starbucks junk!
Also, most Americans have absolutely no idea what decent coffee even LOOKS like, let alone tastes like!
And I absolutely detest ANY form of this watered down, undrinkable, crappy liquid that they call "coffee" here (in the USA).

Since I live in the boondocks (* see below), I have my own espresso machine, a Saeco Magic Comfort Plus:



Throw in the beans, fill the tank with water, push a button and voila: your own espresso!

* boondocks: any area in the country that is quiet, has few people living in it, and is a long way away from a town or city.



PS: and I also thoroughly dislike Windows 10

RBS, as far as I am concerned, even people living in the most densely populated areas in the US of A need their own gear should they want their caffeine fix in an enjoyable way. Btw, by using the * and giving your definition of boondocks, do you mean to distance yourself from being an inhabitant of a "...town considered backwards and unsophisticated"? (source is Wikipedia)

JohnD, you realize that by not wanting to use Win10, you will appear 'un-hip' and 'not cool' to all of us hipsters ? You understand the repercussions and guaranteed damage to your self esteem because of this ? If I were you I'd reconsider that choice and give in to Microsoft. It's not too late yet.

[rkawakami]

[dr_st]

JohnD, you realize that by not wanting to use Win10, you will appear 'un-hip' and 'not cool' to all of us hipsters ?

I thought all hipsters used Macs...

[precip9]

Reviewers like Paul Theroux want to stay in the good graces of the Big Makers. The Big Makers favor positive reviewers, not critics. So, although when there is not proof of money under the table, the term "shill" is an unfair indictment, conflict of interest is enough to skew the whole cheap phenomena of computer journalism. The Big Makers need positive spin, and the reviewers need access to products.

Every time a maker comes out with a new, "improved" version of Windows, a new phone, or game concole, the majority of these compromised "journalists" -- (and to call them journalists tarnishes the word) gush all kinds of superlatives to make us buy the product so they will receive more products to review. This is how the world goes round.

These days, the object of marketing is like fashion -- to create a wave of popular sentiment, of must-have "latest-and-greatest", "don't be left behind" ---. Users are heard to talk as if the future is ordained, there is no free will, and the only thing to do is move in lockstep with the crowd.

If the marketers could make gadgets and software walk the catwalk in slinky dresses, they would.

[pianowizard]

Every time a maker comes out with a new, "improved" version of Windows, a new phone, or game concole, the majority of these compromised "journalists" -- (and to call them journalists tarnishes the word) gush all kinds of superlatives to make us buy the product so they will receive more products to review.

Then how come 9 out of 10 reviewers/journalists/bloggers bashed Windows 8 when it came out?

[precip9]

Every time a maker comes out with a new, "improved" version of Windows, a new phone, or game concole, the majority of these compromised "journalists" -- (and to call them journalists tarnishes the word) gush all kinds of superlatives to make us buy the product so they will receive more products to review.

Then how come 9 out of 10 reviewers/journalists/bloggers bashed Windows 8 when it came out?

The number is unsubstantiated. A question should not assume an unsubstantiated fact. If you would be so kind as to address this, perhaps I could undertake a rephrased question.

[pianowizard]

The number is unsubstantiated.

Ah, someone is beating around the bush! Let's make my question simpler by borrowing the phrase you used in your previous post: "the majority of". I don't think anyone who has seen more than a few reviews of Windows 8 would object to the statement that "the majority of reviewers/journalists/bloggers bashed Windows 8 when it came out". Thus, here's the rephrased question:

Then how come the majority of reviewers/journalists/bloggers bashed Windows 8 when it came out?

[Ibthink]

Then how come the majority of reviewers/journalists/bloggers bashed Windows 8 when it came out?

Quiet, that does not fit the Microsoft bashing train.

Indeed, Windows 8 was heavily criticized by journalists, and indeed so hard, that even after Windows 8.1 came out (which solved many of the usability problems Windows 8 had), the name was so destroyed that the system never recovered...

MS really isn´t the company that has the tech media "in their hand". Thats more or less Apple...Microsoft has often enough been pronounced dead in the last years by the media.

[precip9]

The number is unsubstantiated.

Ah, someone is beating around the bush! Let's make my question simpler by borrowing the phrase you used in your previous post: "the majority of". I don't think anyone who has seen more than a few reviews of Windows 8 would object to the statement that "the majority of reviewers/journalists/bloggers bashed Windows 8 when it came out". Thus, here's the rephrased question:

Then how come the majority of reviewers/journalists/bloggers bashed Windows 8 when it came out?

Pardon, but another "fact" is presupposed, that a majority of "___" bashed it. I don't think this was the case, so I can't proceed to address your question. For example, here's a positive review by
PC World: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2012830/ ... eview.html

Here's another by Tech Radar: http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/pc- ... 002/review

PC Advisor, http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/review/opera ... w-3284198/ , summarizes:
"Combining the interface, performance, security and new features, Windows 8 leaves us impressed. For just £25, it's a no-brainer upgrade from Windows XP or Vista, and even for Windows 7 users, it's a worthwhile purchase."

There are also plenty of negative reviews. Do your really have the time and interest to argue "9 out of 10", or "majority?" Why force facts down my throat? Why would you want to do that?

I have an opinion about your question. There are constructive ways to argue, and nonconstructive. The way you've put the question to me is that of forcing facts that by themselves are debatable questions. That leads to pointless argument, as opposed to meaningful debate that can result in true understanding. And it's not a very nice thing to do.

[pianowizard]

Pardon, but another "fact" is presupposed, that a majority of "___" bashed it.

In other words, when you say "the majority of ...", it is a fact, but when I say the same phrase, you demand thorough statistics to back it up. Incredible.

MS really isn´t the company that has the tech media "in their hand". Thats more or less Apple...Microsoft has often enough been pronounced dead in the last years by the media.

QFT. The media loves to bash MS, especially Windows 8.

[precip9]

Pardon, but another "fact" is presupposed, that a majority of "___" bashed it.

In other words, when you say "the majority of ...", it is a fact, but when I say the same phrase, you demand thorough statistics to back it up. Incredible.

I'm sorry, but it appears you misunderstand. My intended meaning is this. The question you pose requires me to accept "the majority of..." as a fact, in order to answer the question that you pose. I don't like this. I don't think it's fair, and I don't think it's nice, and I don't think it's polite.

[coolcat37]

All I saw on the internet was how awesome windows 10 was and how stoopid people were who were worried about this new leap of invasion of privacy. no-one was bashing windows 10

but ofcourse get used to it kiddos, cuz arstechnica says that's the new norm so we must all abide right? http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... ew-normal/

"You're reading arstechnica, the cool, brainwashing, 55-year-old-and-younger website that hides behind a slick image. We're so cool that we decide what's cool. And now arstechnica news. The news that is single-handedly dumbing-down our country, which is cool. "

headlines like "Microsoft Windows 10 review - 'a future to be embraced, not feared'"

Ofcourse all other blogs/websites will all follow, sporting "I let microsoft track me 24/7 cuz I've got nothing to hide and it's hip" t-shirts and tattoo's.

Btw you people who question this are causing panic and are stoopid. Y'all keep us back while we crave to evolve to the Internet of Things, Smartcities and Freemium services which are totally hackproof and super personalized. Some call it Heaven, others .... are just ignorant.

I am with precip9 on the review issue. They want more free stuff = more readers = higher ego boost/ad incomes/ etc them reviewers. When they start to say "no it's crap, it's flimsy and it can't even handle being tossed in a bed from your couch over a distance of 1 meter without falling apart" all the flimsy gadget companies stop sending in free stuff and no more ego trip for them reviewers anymore

[pianowizard]

I don't think it's polite.

Actually, I was trying to be polite by not saying flat out that your assertion was wrong. To be diplomatic, I used Windows 8 as an example where a new product was obviously not praised by the majority of reviewers, and let you realize on your own that you were wrong. I suspect you did realize that, but you didn't want to admit you were wrong, so instead you questioned whether Windows 8 was poorly received.

I could look up 100 reviews of Windows 8 and show that at least 51 of them were negative, but that would be a huge waste of time. Instead, let me challenge your assertion a different way. Here's again your assertion:

"Every time a maker comes out with a new, "improved" version of Windows, a new phone, or game concole, the majority of these compromised "journalists" -- (and to call them journalists tarnishes the word) gush all kinds of superlatives to make us buy the product so they will receive more products to review."

Think about how unlikely it is that *every* new version of Windows, phone, or game console ever produced was liked by the majority of reviewers. Are you sure Windows Millenium was liked by the majority of reviewers? Or Vista? Or any of these "top 11 worst Android smartphones ever created"?

If anything, I think reviewers tend to exaggerate how awful a not-so-good product is, to show that they write positive reviews sometimes but negatives ones othertimes, so that they appear unbiased. No one is going to trust a reviewer who praises everything.

All I saw on the internet was how awesome windows 10 was and how stoopid people were who were worried about this new leap of invasion of privacy. no-one was bashing windows 10

Do you use a different internet than the one I use? There are articles everywhere warning people about the invasion of privacy. I wonder if people really need to be warned sooooooo many times about the same thing.

Anyway, if you want to see Windows 10 bashing, I will give you some. I have been using it since the day it came out, July 29th. Over this time, I have gotten to really like its UI, and the fact that it takes up much less hard drive space than both 7 and 8. But on the whole, I like 10 less and less each day, due to these issues (and counting):

1) At least on my computers, stability has been an issue. My main computer (HP 8300 Elite minitower) has frozen many times while watching videos. At first I thought that was just due to my Nvidia cards, but after replacing all of them with ATI ones, I had this problem again this morning. One might argue that all these are fairly old cards, and that newer ones would be more compatible with 10. But the remaining issues aren't caused by old hardware:

2) The eject icon in the system tray often doesn't work, as in nothing happens when I click it. And even when it works, it usually doesn't tell me "this drive can now be safely removed". Sometimes it does tell me it's safe to remove, so I believe it's supposed to give me this message, but it usually doesn't. How could any software be so unreliable?

3) Once in a while, a USB drive can't be ejected because it's in use. That's understandable, and isn't unique to 10. But what's unique to 10 is that even after I have logged out and logged back in, the drive is still in use and can't be ejected! I have never had this stupid problem with previous versions of Windows.

4) I also don't like Windows 10's latest Intel HD graphics drivers, which limited my HP 8300's and Dell 9010's DisplayPort output from 3840x2160 to 2560x1600. I think I know why: both computers' DisplayPort outputs support 3840x2160 only at 30 Hz but not 60 Hz, and Windows 10 doesn't want me to "suffer" 30 Hz. But I would rather use my 4K monitor at 30Hz 3840x2160 than 60Hz 2560x1440. To get my Dell OptiPlex 9010 SFF PC to output 3840x2160 to my Crossover monitor, I had to reinstall the old driver Dell wrote for Windows 7.

5) When I move a window from one monitor to another, the mouse pointer often falls off the window's title bar. Sometimes that's not a problem, but sometimes I have to let go and re-grab the title bar in order to fully move the window to the intended destination.

6) By now I am convinced that 10 is slower than 8, and perhaps even 7. It may start up faster than 7, but thereafter, routine processes seem slower than 7. Some online videos can't even play smoothly, a problem I haven't had since the Penium II days! And sometimes a program takes more than a few seconds to launch.

7) When I was installing 10 on the first couple of computers, I didn't mind going through the dozens of places to disable the various data sharing features. But after putting 10 on a few more computers, this process has become kind of tedious.

So far, most of the negative press about Windows 10 has focused on its intrusion on privacy. I think this is a bad thing because it detracts from the above issues, which IMO are far worse than the privacy stuff. So, I wish reviewers would stop whining ad nauseam about privacy, and start talking more about 10's stability, performance, reliability and other functionality problems.

Many have pointed out that every other version of Windows is "good", but it is actually the "bad" ones that I like. I like Vista and 8, but dislike XP, 7 and 10. I am keeping 10 for now, hoping that through updates Microsoft will make it more stable and faster, like it did for XP (made it more stable) and Vista (made it faster). But if things don't get significantly better within a year, I will revert to 7 and 8. I wish I could revert to Vista, which I love, but it's now so old that I should move on.

Lots of MS advocates and fanboys on Web. There's even some on this forum.

You are probably referring to "OS wars", where the four camps (Wintel/Windows Phone, Apple, Google/Android and Linux) fight over silly things. That's different from liking almost everything that Microsoft has made. Lots of people blindly like most things made by Apple, but Microsoft has never had such a loyal following. You may have seen me praise and even defend Windows Vista and 8, but at the same time I bash XP and 7 (and now 10) so strongly that I must have offended a few forum members.

[precip9]

I don't think it's polite.

Actually, I was trying to be polite by not saying flat out that your assertion was wrong. To be diplomatic, I used Windows 8 as an example where a new product was obviously not praised by the majority of reviewers, and let you realize on your own that you were wrong. I suspect you did realize that, but you didn't want to admit you were wrong, so instead you questioned whether Windows 8 was poorly received. offended a few forum members.

It is within your rights, and within the bounds of etiquette, to say that I am wrong. But what you do "instead" is really offensive.

I don't like your debating tactics. I don't think you play fair. You pose questions that require acceptance of a premise that is itself debatable. Now you state that you're suspecting that I realize something, but don't want to admit it. This is an ad hominem tactic, directed at the person instead of the issue.

You're a nasty person. You play dirty. I don't like you.

[Norway Pad]

So, so. Let's just say that Pianowizard is probably one of the best debaters here on the forum. Good debaters, many of them are politicians, have impressive debating skills that makes them come out right most of the time, or at least never come out wrong or get stuck with no answer. Whether they ARE right, or if utilizing these skills too often makes them popular is a different matter..

[RealBlackStuff]

Compared to Donald Trump, pianowizard is an altar boy!
But let's not go into politics or personal vendettas, please.
Let's go back to the W10 privacy issues at hand!