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Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#31 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:03 pm

pianowizard wrote:Folks, take a look at this article, "The truth about Windows 7 and 8.1 'spy patches' KB 3068708, 3022345, 3075249, 3080149". If you would rather not read the whole thing, here's the punch line: "The Windows 10 data-scraping approach is not moving down to Windows 7 or 8.1, no matter what those headlines and experts may say".
And the punch line was disputed heavily - and proven wrong - in the comments section by more than one user.
And I bet it is still 90% irrelevant, just like when the list was shorter.
Maybe for you. I view it differently.
Rational discussions are helpful, but irrational panic isn't. Remember the ebola scare? The irrational panic was much worse than the disease itself, and the same is true for Windows 10.
Well, I have no wish to come near ebola or try W10 again, so I guess that in sense I agree with you...sort of... :mrgreen:
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#32 Post by Norway Pad » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:56 am

Over the last months I have been busy on other areas, and I have had very little time to devote to Thinkpads, posting here and hobby computing in general. Just the required day-to-day computing. So the sad fact so far is that I haven't even started using Win10. The T420 has been sitting around collecting dust for almost 4 months without even being turned on once, as I simply don't want to start using this OS before I have time to really sit down and make sure I do it right. It might or might not be as big of a deal as claimed, and this is the first time this my skepticism has been so big that I have put off exploring and using new technology. It's sad though, as I really like Win10's UI compared to Win8/8.1, and I was looking forward to this as a step in the right direction for me.

So irrational panic or not, these issues have sure brought my Win10 experience to a halt.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#33 Post by axur-delmeria » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:06 am

ajkula66 wrote:Well, I have no wish to come near ebola or try W10 again, so I guess that in sense I agree with you...sort of... :mrgreen:
That's an amusing take on the matter. :lol:

Sooner or later I will have to dive into Windows 10 due to my line of work (computer repair), but I'll probably let the dust settle first. Let the manufacturers and OEMs update their drivers and support software and Microsoft fix their bugs, because I don't want to be a guinea pig.

Regarding the data collection/spying, would some form of packet filtering through a linux/BSD based network firewall/router prevent the data from getting sent to Microsoft?
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#34 Post by Hierax_ca » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:40 pm

Any updates on what to cleanse?
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#35 Post by Puppy » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:00 pm

pianowizard wrote: I have been saying this since Windows 10 came out in July: It does have problems, in terms of privacy as well as functionality (driver stability, forced updates, etc.). But the privacy issues are dramatically overblown by bloggers as a clickbait tactic. Rational discussions are helpful, but irrational panic isn't. Remember the ebola scare? The irrational panic was much worse than the disease itself, and the same is true for Windows 10.
All these discussions are absurd as long as most of these people also use any Google service or Android "operating system" that is many times worse regarding privacy and security than any Microsoft product.

Google Deceptively Tracks Students’ Internet Browsing, EFF Says in FTC Complaint
https://www.eff.org/press/releases/goog ... eral-trade
Last edited by Puppy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#36 Post by Puppy » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:05 pm

axur-delmeria wrote: Regarding the data collection/spying, would some form of packet filtering through a linux/BSD based network firewall/router prevent the data from getting sent to Microsoft?
There is article http://www.root.cz/clanky/windows-10-an ... omunikace/ (in czech but automatic translation works) made by local Linux (that means Microsoft haters) community that diagnosed all Windows 10 telemetry communication for several days. Result ? No private information is sent.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#37 Post by shawross » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:49 pm

Should that make people feel safer? I am circumspect in this regard.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#38 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:35 pm

Hierax_ca wrote:Any updates on what to cleanse?
I gave up and just locked all of my W7 systems on SP1, completely disabling all future updates. I'd rather deal with unknown hackers that may or may not get to me, than with MS' nonsense. Life is *way* too short.

The original NBR thread linked in the first post is still going strong, and people are updating it on regular basis.

Good luck.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#39 Post by pianowizard » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:22 am

Puppy wrote:There is article http://www.root.cz/clanky/windows-10-an ... omunikace/ (in czech but automatic translation works) made by local Linux (that means Microsoft haters) community that diagnosed all Windows 10 telemetry communication for several days. Result ? No private information is sent.
It all depends on how one defines "private". Many people consider diagnostic telemetry to be a frightening privacy invasion.

I am glad that Windows 10 has basic diagnostic telemetry that cannot be disabled. It is the main reason why Microsoft was able to fix serious Windows 10 stability issues so quickly in the past several months.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#40 Post by n2ri » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:12 pm

ajkula66 wrote:First and foremost, a big "thank you" goes to my friend known as Matrix Leader on NBR for all the work that he has put into isolating updates that are affecting our privacy in W7/W8.x and are pushing the W10 "upgrade" on us whether we like it or not...

This is the current list of updates that you DON'T want, along with what they *actually* affect...

KB2952664 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)
KB2976978 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)
KB2977759 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)
KB2990214 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)
KB3021917 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation + Telemetry)
KB3022345 (Telemetry)
KB3035583 (Windows 10 upgrade preparation)
KB3044374
KB3068708 (Telemetry)
KB3075249 (Telemetry)
KB3080149 (Telemetry)


Original thread on NBR can be found here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads ... ry.780476/

This list will be updated as more information becomes available. Stay tuned.

some of the updates listed are not on my win7 64bit so I looked at the old topic links list and found a couple but still have the dam white window in my tool bar trying to force win 10 plus a popup sometimes.
also update KB3088195 will not uninstall it ends with popup warning that some updates where not uninstalled and its still listed on my list in my PC.

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#41 Post by BillP » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:51 pm

Download and run GWX Control Panel from http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ to stop the Windows 10 pop-ups and remove the toolbar icon. Run it occasionally to confirm system settings are as you set them, especially after patch Tuesday.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#42 Post by Puppy » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:27 am

Concerned about privacy ? Follow this http://www.leavegooglebehind.com/how-to ... m-windows/
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#43 Post by TonyJZX » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:17 pm

^^^ The problem with that is false equivalence.

Generally you do not pay for Google services. Google asks for some personal information in exchange for useful services. You do not even need to input correct personal information.

Microsoft charges you $100-160 USD for their operating system AND then takes your information without asking. Or they charged you $100-160 for Windows 7 and then proceed to force Windows 10 on you in an annoying manner.

There's a big difference and its disingenuous to compare the two. Further to this, Google at least tries now economic models to get revenue. Microsoft are leveraging old economic models BADLY in an effort to get revenue. Google does things in an elegant manner ie. they tend to target companies via SEO and NOT the consumer. Microsoft targets their paying consumer.

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#44 Post by MisterB » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:52 pm

Google has is actually very transparent in how it uses and abuses your information and in general rates much higher in the ethics department than Microsoft. The problem with the Windows 10 privacy issues and Windows 7 updates is that there is very little transparency. That is not the case with Google. While Google certainly does engage in intrusive tracking of users, it doesn't try to hide that from the users of its services. It also doesn't embed that tracking deep into the OS as is the case with Windows 10.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#45 Post by TonyJZX » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:38 am

I paid for three copies of Windows 7 way back in 2009. That's a retail of $160 x 3. I did not expect to be assaulted by GWX in 2015.

Google you can readily avoid, dont buy a Android phone, dont use google, youtube, gmail or any other google service. Problem is Google services ARE quite good.

You can avoid using Windows on your x86 machine. But I doubt that will happen because Microsoft know the vast majority of people are unfortunately stuck on the Windows platform.

Do you see how Google tries to attract customers and revenue? Provide services for free*

(* not really free, we need a bit of your personal info which can be false)

Microsoft are taking advantage of their huge PAYING customer base.

I am looking into implementing a pfsense hardware firewall just for Windows 10.

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#46 Post by dr_st » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:23 am

TonyJZX wrote:Microsoft charges you $100-160 USD for their operating system AND then takes your information without asking. Or they charged you $100-160 for Windows 7 and then proceed to force Windows 10 on you in an annoying manner.
So, they are damned if they charge you money, and they are also damned if they give it to you for free (because it's "in an annoying manner"). I sense "a tad" of good old Microsoft hate here.
TonyJZX wrote:Google asks for some personal information in exchange for useful services. You do not even need to input correct personal information.
Not quite. If you want the services to be useful - you actually do need to input some correct personal information. That is, unless you want to use a fake name as your primary email account. Or maybe you can just send your CV to potential employers / customers as "mrhotstud777@gmail.com"?

It's not about what you give Google explicitly. It's about what it collects without you doing a thing. It tracks everything. Search history, sites you visit, emails you send/receive, documents you use with its services, location (via the built-in GPS on your phone, via pictures you take, via Wi-fi triangulation). That's a whole lot of info which you may want or not want them to have, but there is very little you can do to stop them from having it. You can usually turn most of these features off (of course, they are "on" by default), but it's a whole lot of digging (Google does not make it easy for you), and it has a way of "forgetting" and turning them back on, and that is even assuming it honors your requests.

So really the only way to avoid it is not to use Google's services, which is a problem, because, as you say, they are quite good.
TonyJZX wrote:Further to this, Google at least tries now economic models to get revenue. Microsoft are leveraging old economic models BADLY in an effort to get revenue.
Why would you automatically assume that trying new economic models is good, and sticking to old ones is bad? Who are you to say they are leveraging them "badly"? Did you see their books? Do you know how well it really works for them? Do you think companies should get extra points just because they are "trying new models"? Give a round of applause to the guys who write and distribute Cryptowall, then. I think it's a brilliant model.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#47 Post by TonyJZX » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:51 am

My friend, giving you something for free comes at a cost, in you're not paying money, YOU are the product. Microsoft are not giving you Windows 10 out of the kindness of their heart. If this 'free' upgrade was so wonderful you would see universal acclaim for Microsoft's "generousity". You don't. In fact you see volumes of commentary about why this is bad.

Google are not innocent here either but at least they didnt take me for $480. Gift horses what are they?

I use youtube maps and gmail anonymously and I enjoy their free services. I am not swayed by your argument that I don't just because you say so.

New economic models that do not require me to pay and yet charge organisations is good for me.

That is all that matters to me. Do not make me pay, do not devalue my purchases of your products.

Microsoft does this, Google does not. Case closed.

I do not wish to argue about whatever in the hell "Cryptowall" is. I do not wish to google (or bing!) them to support your arguments.

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#48 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:37 am

And another one you don't want to install:
KB3123862 (Windows 10 upgrade preparation)

See here for more info: http://www.infoworld.com/article/303021 ... 23862.html

(added to original list)

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#49 Post by dr_st » Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:09 pm

TonyJZX wrote:Microsoft are not giving you Windows 10 out of the kindness of their heart
TonyJZX wrote:Google are not innocent here either but at least they didnt take me for $480. Gift horses what are they?
My point exactly. Microsoft is at fault, no matter what they do. When something is free - you see their hidden agenda. When something is not free - you complain that it isn't.

I think you are too deep into your Microsoft-bashing to evaluate your claims objectively.
TonyJZX wrote:If this 'free' upgrade was so wonderful you would see universal acclaim for Microsoft's "generousity". You don't. In fact you see volumes of commentary about why this is bad.
You see plenty of positive commentary, just like negative ones. You only choose to focus on the negatives, because it matches your personal opinion.

Fact of the matter is that every time there is a new version with significant changes, there will be people that like it and people who don't. The mixed reaction to Win10 is really nothing special.
TonyJZX wrote:I use youtube maps and gmail anonymously and I enjoy their free services.
So do I. You may be surprised to find out how much Google actually knows about you just from using these things "anonymously". And how the heck does one use Gmail anonymously? You sign your messages "Sincerely, Incognito"?
TonyJZX wrote:New economic models that do not require me to pay and yet charge organisations is good for me.

That is all that matters to me. Do not make me pay, do not devalue my purchases of your products.
Microsoft doesn't require you to pay either. You chose to shell out $160 for a retail copy of Win7, and you chose to do it three times, well that's all it was - your choice. Lots of people opted for the much cheaper OEM option (that barely costs anything). Lots of others got it for free.

Not to mention that you are only talking about their operating system. As far as I know, Google does not offer for free anything comparable to Microsoft Windows for the desktop. Google offers lots of other services for free, and so does Microsoft.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#50 Post by TonyJZX » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:21 pm

dr_st wrote:That is all that matters to me. Do not make me pay, do not devalue my purchases of your products.Microsoft doesn't require you to pay either. You chose to shell out $160 for a retail copy of Win7, and you chose to do it three times, well that's all it was - your choice. Lots of people opted for the much cheaper OEM option (that barely costs anything). Lots of others got it for free.

Not to mention that you are only talking about their operating system. As far as I know, Google does not offer for free anything comparable to Microsoft Windows for the desktop. Google offers lots of other services for free, and so does Microsoft.
Here's the problem with that assumption. I paid in 2009. How was I to know that these things would arise in 2015? Do you have a crystal ball?

Your argument in nonsense otherwise because its not as if they made these practices plain AT TIME OF PURCHASE.

Also your idea of barely costs anything is off kilter: http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... em-prices/

And in fact, they would not have raised a single eyebrow if they put in a tickbox that allows you to opt out. I must ask, why would they do these things unless they have something to hide.

You are correct I am biased against Microsoft, I have reason to be. What is your reason to cheerlead Microsoft? Do you own stock? I suspect your motives. It must be great for Microsoft one of the richest companies in the world to have so many unpaid and paid minions.

What is made clear to me is how so many people want to cheerlead something that has minimal improvement to themselves except for their own low self esteem and how Microsoft are so aware of their own actions. It seems only fools sackride billionaire companies.

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#51 Post by dr_st » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:31 am

TonyJZX wrote:Here's the problem with that assumption. I paid in 2009. How was I to know that these things would arise in 2015?
What "things"? What is wrong with your purchased copy of Win7? Nothing, I guess. It is still just as usable as it was on 2009, in fact much more, with 6+ years of fixes, patches and updates.

Nobody will force Win10 on you. If the nagging bothers you, there are ways to stop it, ranging from disabling updates altogether through manually blocking certain updates, to installing various "GWX killer" utilities, where others have done the hard work for you.

It may sound strange to you, but there are many people out there who would like Windows 10, and would want to get the free upgrade. And, of course, Microsoft also wants, for its own selfish reasons, that as many people move to Win10 as possible. The choice between making the upgrade easy to folks that want it (and may not be tech-savvy), and avoiding annoying some hard-core users who actively don't want it, is pretty clear, from a corporate point of view.
TonyJZX wrote:Also your idea of barely costs anything is off kilter: http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... em-prices/
That is if you buy it in the store. If you buy it preinstalled on your machine (as most folks end up getting Windows), it costs far less in the overall package.
TonyJZX wrote:And in fact, they would not have raised a single eyebrow if they put in a tickbox that allows you to opt out.
I agree.
TonyJZX wrote:I must ask, why would they do these things unless they have something to hide.
They obviously want as many people possible to move to Windows 10 and adopt the auto-update approach. They have also been very open about it multiple times. It is not necessarily because of any evil. It is simply far easier to support one operating system, with 99% of the customers on a common version, than 4 different operating systems, each with a different patch level.
TonyJZX wrote:You are correct I am biased against Microsoft, I have reason to be.
And the reason is? Is there anything beyond what is in this thread?
TonyJZX wrote:What is your reason to cheerlead Microsoft? Do you own stock? I suspect your motives. It must be great for Microsoft one of the richest companies in the world to have so many unpaid and paid minions.
That's the number one favorite approach of all conspiracy theorists and conspiracy theory-lovers out there: if someone disagrees with them, they are immediately suspicious; they must have a hidden agenda, they must be involved with the other ("evil") side, or be paid by them, etc etc. The option that someone just has a different opinion simply does not cross their minds.

Personally, I don't like Windows 10. I am quite wary of some of the privacy-related issues around it. I don't plan to install it in the foreseeable future. I don't ever upgrade my Windows installations. I know how to get my computers to do what I want and to run at the best of their capabilities. I don't go around whining about Microsoft's aggressive marketing / product pushing, simply because I know how, with minimal effort, to make it so that they don't affect me one bit. This is what this topic is about, actually. But it seems like there is no way to have such a thread without a resident Microsoft-hater popping in to rant.

I have never worked for Microsoft. I have never directly owned Microsoft stock. I imagine I own some Microsoft stock via some of the investment portfolios that are managed for me. I have worked in a company that has customers, and provides software to customers, and offers support to said customers. I know first hand how difficult it can be to support multiple different products with tons of different options. I know how much engineering time and effort these things take. I can totally understand why a company like Microsoft would like to reduce the number of different configuration it supports, to make it easier for themselves.

I don't think Microsoft engineers are all geniuses, nor are they all dumb. Microsoft is a huge company, and has some of everything. Some things they do great, some things they do terrible, and some are in between. I've seen samples of all. They are not evil. They do not do things so different from other similar companies. They just happened to, in the past, through a combination of many factors (a lot of which is 'being in the right place at the right time') managed to establish themselves a position of power and profit in a particular niche, and they will do all that is in their power to keep on using their position for continued profitability. Just like any for-profit corporation is expected to do.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#52 Post by UMPC2024 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:41 am

I feel like this post has gotten off topic and is more in line with the "Why I don't prefer Windows 10" one....

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#53 Post by Norway Pad » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:06 am

dr_st wrote:
TonyJZX wrote:I use youtube maps and gmail anonymously and I enjoy their free services.
So do I. You may be surprised to find out how much Google actually knows about you just from using these things "anonymously". And how the heck does one use Gmail anonymously? You sign your messages "Sincerely, Incognito"?
I was wondering about that too.. As soon as you have people email you, using your name and their own name, there is really no way to anonymously use Gmail.

Even though I decided to let my Win10 computer sit unused for a while, I'm getting there. At least it's been used a couple of times now. But I kind of contradict myself on the privacy issue when I use an Andriod phone. If I was really concerned about privacy, that device would be the first thing to get rid of.
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#54 Post by Norway Pad » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:15 pm

I wasn't aware I posted the last post here. Anyway, just wanted to mention one little thing.

I took a picture of the list of updates in the first post, and keep it on my phone so I have it accessible to me where ever I go. So I check it every time I do updates on any of the 5-6 computers I use regularly. Particularly with regards to the Win10 upgrade preparation updates, as I think being nagged about upgrading to Win10 is so unnecessary. With regards to most of these updates, I was sure that I had hidden all of them by now, and except for the latest one that was added recently, I assumed this was all gone now. But today I ran updates on the R61 and the Frankenpad, and realized that update KB2952664 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation) was listed again. So if you are equally concerned about this as I am, make sure to still check this list. I can't say it for sure, but I am pretty sure I hid this specific update once already, hence it might seem that Microsoft tries one more time..
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#55 Post by Cigarguy » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:36 pm

I do the same thing Norway Pad. What's annoying is that a few of the updates reappears even though I've hidden them a few times. Just need to be diligent and careful.

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#56 Post by nikki605 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:25 pm

I'm wondering if KB3083710 should be added to this list: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3083710

Several topics I've read seem to indicate that it is responsible for stopping the Taskbar Update Notification balloon;

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... 79d4baf46e

http://www.infoworld.com/article/299247 ... 83710.html

I'd like to get the Update Notification balloon back and do have this KB installed on 2 Win7 Pro PCs. Both are set to check for updates but not to download or install them. I used to rely on the notification to tell me when updates were available.

Thoughts on uninstalling it?
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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#57 Post by freeagent » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:22 am

I used GWX Control Panel on a few machines that I look after . It gets rid of those Win 10 annoyances for those who have no desire or need to up- (or is it down-) grade to Win 10.

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#58 Post by nikki605 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:12 pm

I forgot to mention that I do have that installed: http://i63.tinypic.com/27xlzpx.jpg

I'm just not sure if that's all I need to do. I'm waiting for the next release of Win7 updates from MS to see if I get the update notification balloon.
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IBM: T21 (2647-47U) | PIII 1GHz | 512MB | 60GB 5400rpm | 3Com Mini PCI Ethernet/56K | DVD-RW | WinXP Pro SP3 | Full System Specs

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#59 Post by nikki605 » Wed May 04, 2016 6:46 am

YES! [fist pump] I was waiting for this day. The lost "New Updates" icon and balloon re-appeared on the Task Bar this morning. :banana:

Looks like I finally killed off all the forced Windows 10 junk.

Edit: Just looked at the updates (only 2) and one of them is KB3035583!! :lol: [Gary quickly clicks on Hide Update]
Gary A.

lenovo: T410 (2516-CTO) | i7-620M | 8GB | 320GB 7200rpm | WXGA+ | WiFi 6300 | Bluetooth | Webcam | DVD-RW | 9 Cell | Win7 Pro x64 | Full System Specs
IBM: T21 (2647-47U) | PIII 1GHz | 512MB | 60GB 5400rpm | 3Com Mini PCI Ethernet/56K | DVD-RW | WinXP Pro SP3 | Full System Specs

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Re: Don't want W10? Concerned about privacy? Make sure to kill/uninstall these updates...

#60 Post by Cigarguy » Wed May 25, 2016 10:00 am

For those wanting to stay with Win 7 or 8.1, it's getting more and more tricky.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376962

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