Windows 10 churning through data, blowing up usage caps

[RealBlackStuff]

Yet another big reason to say NO to installing W10.
You do so at YOUR increased Internet expense!

You'll remember that Don Gibson song, made popular by Ray Charles: I can't stop loving you!
The latest version by Micro$haft is out now, trying their utmost to make it popular : I can't stop $hafting you!

http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10 ... data-caps/

[Ibthink]

Yeah, how dare they let you download it^^

As the article linked quoted a reddit user:

While many have pointed to Windows for churning up data, it seems that blame may be mislaid.

"This isn't the fault of the operating system," said one Reddit user. "This is the fault of the ISP."

These caps are certainly NOT the fault of Microsoft - they are not responsible for the policies of the ISPs and bad infrastructure. If an ISP puts an arbitrary caps on the internet connection, you as the user should probably switch the ISP!

[ajkula66]

Yeah, how dare they let you download it^^

They (MS) are not *letting* users do anything, they are shoveling updates down their throats, along with all the other charming telemetry (spying) stuff that takes place over one's Internet connection.

From the article that RBS posted:

Some have blamed the way the new operating system downloads and installs updates. Prior to Windows 10, users could choose whether or not to install updates, depending on where they were in their billing cycle. But for many who breezed through the setup process, updates install in the background, often without user interaction.

Other reports that have trickled in also blame Windows 10's forced updates.

In the past three weeks since its launch, there have been three cumulative updates available for Windows 10. According to sister-site TechRepublic, some installations -- including drivers -- could use about 5 GB of bandwidth for a typical 64-bit installation.

Based on a snapshot analysis of some data caps on one Reddit thread, that could amount to anything from one-quarter to one-third of a user's monthly data.
Some have added that Windows 10's internet-based system services use up significant amounts of data -- such as the Cortana voice assistant, search, telemetry and diagnostic services, and sharing updates with others (which can be turned off).

These caps are certainly NOT the fault of Microsoft - they are not responsible for the policies of the ISPs and bad infrastructure. If an ISP puts an arbitrary caps on the internet connection, you as the user should probably switch the ISP!

Well, while MS might have not have anything to do with the caps in question, they most certainly are well-aware of them but couldn't care less about the fact that their "new and improved OS" can become costly for their users. As for switching ISPs, not everyone has that option available.

[Ibthink]

They (MS) are not *letting* users do anything, they are shoveling updates down their throats

Yeah, right. The MS Gestapo is coming for you, look out, they will "shove" the Windows 10 update down your throat... They must be knocking at your front door any second now...

Spying? Where is the proof that they are spying on you? As long as you don´t use Onedrive, or their mail service, or things like Cortana and Bing, all your personal data are of no concern to Microsoft...

You once told me in one of our ThinkPad debates that I have to prove what I say, with numbers, statistics, etc. Now its your turn! Again, where is the proof that Microsoft is spying on you, me or anyone else? Where is the proof that the telemetry updates for Windows 7 and 8.1 are enabling some sort of "spying system" in the system? Do you know whats inside the telemetry data?

I guess that whole proof matter is only important when someone argues for Microsoft (or Lenovo for that matter), but not against them. Then its totally fine to make all the wildest assumptions about anything^^

they most certainly are well-aware of them but couldn't care less about the fact that their "new and improved OS" can become costly for their users.

Then tell me, what should Microsoft do about it? Stop delivering updates, because of the ISPs? I don´t think so...

[Dekks]

Then tell me, what should Microsoft do about it? Stop delivering updates, because of the ISPs? I don´t think so...

No be honest with people about what's going, what with this issue and the "were not telling you what's in updates" i'm having 2nd thoughts about updating any more machines.

[ajkula66]

Spying? Where is the proof that they are spying on you? As long as you don´t use Onedrive, or their mail service, or things like Cortana and Bing, all your personal data are of no concern to Microsoft...

That would be a valid point IF they stopped collecting data when everything gets turned off. They don't. From Ars technica:

Windows 10 seems to transmit information to the server even when OneDrive is disabled and logins are using a local account that isn't connected to a Microsoft Account. The exact nature of the information being sent isn't clear—it appears to be referencing telemetry settings—and again, it's not clear why any data is being sent at all.

http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... microsoft/

You once told me in one of our ThinkPad debates that I have to prove what I say, with numbers, statistics, etc. Now its your turn!

It HAS been proven that the data is being collected even with all the privacy setting in place. Read the article linked above.

Again, where is the proof that Microsoft is spying on you, me or anyone else?

Read my previous sentence.

Where is the proof that the telemetry updates for Windows 7 and 8.1 are enabling some sort of "spying system" in the system? Do you know whats inside the telemetry data?

It doesn't matter WHO the data is collected for. What matters is that is collected without user's knowledge and without their consent.

I guess that whole proof matter is only important when someone argues for Microsoft (or Lenovo for that matter), but not against them. Then its totally fine to make all the wildest assumptions about anything^^

There's also a number of terms used for people who argue *for* someone 10001% of the time that I've refrained from using this far.

Then tell me, what should Microsoft do about it? Stop delivering updates, because of the ISPs? I don´t think so...

Leave the user option of not installing them, just like the case was in the not-so-distant past.

[hhhd1]

These caps are certainly NOT the fault of Microsoft - they are not responsible for the policies of the ISPs and bad infrastructure.

The caps are not the fault of the user either, in many cases those are circumstances that the user is in, many countries around the world have very strict caps, and no alternative ISPs are available.

Even if you do not have caps, you may be hogging internet bandwidth for users.

Even if internet cap/bandwidth is not an issue, you are wasting harddisk space and cpu power at unpredictable times, and this could cause serious instability in some cases.

Those are circumstances where MS should have taken into account, and not burden the user with.

This IS the fault of Microsoft.

[Ibthink]

That would be a valid point IF they stopped collecting data when everything gets turned off. They don't. From Ars technica:

Windows 10 seems to transmit information to the server even when OneDrive is disabled and logins are using a local account that isn't connected to a Microsoft Account. The exact nature of the information being sent isn't clear—it appears to be referencing telemetry settings—and again, it's not clear why any data is being sent at all.

http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... microsoft/

Let me summarize this: There is being data sent, but thats all that is known. The exact nature of this data isn´t known.

Except, it likely is. There is one service in Windows 10 you can´t turn off, even if you are not using Onedrive, or Cortana. Its the "Diagnostic and Usage data":
http://core0.staticworld.net/images/art ... e.idge.jpg

You can´t turn that off 100 %, but you can reduce it to a minimum. What are the informations that are collected and sent to Microsoft, if you select the "basic" mode?

Basic information is data that is vital to the operation of Windows. This data helps keep Windows and apps running properly by letting Microsoft know the capabilities of your device, what is installed, and whether Windows is operating correctly. This option also turns on basic error reporting back to Microsoft. If you select this option, we’ll be able to provide updates to Windows (through Windows Update, including malicious software protection by the Malicious Software Removal Tool), but some apps and features may not work correctly or at all.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... rivacy-faq

These are not informations about your personal files or something...the most personal bit on information thats included there is "what you have installed I guess".

Now I guess you still have to take their word for it...but thats also the case with Windows 7 or Windows 8.1, isn´t it?

Look, I am not, in no way, questioning your personal decision - to each his own. What bugs me is the absurd panic machine thats going on (which the media gladly take part in, cause "Windows is spying on you" articles always get clicks). Without a clear proof that Windows 10 is really spying on you.

I think it all boils down to the conclusion: Either you have some trust in the developer, or you don't. And if you don't, then using their products is probably a bad idea - this is not only true for Windows 10, but also for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 (did you know, many of the privacy settings were also there in Windows 8.1? Most of this "spying issue isn't even new).

There's also a number of terms used for people who argue *for* someone 10001% of the time that I've refrained from using this far.

Yes, that prejudice is really helpful, if you want to ignore counter arguments. However, ist probably not the best way to discuss something...

[Cigarguy]

Just relax Ibthink, at this stage with Win 10 I'm neither panicking or getting anywhere near panicking. Been doing a lot of reading and gathering info and making up my own mind. However I generally don't like unknowns and stuff being force fed to me. I'd rather MS give me the option of what and when to update/upgrade and if I want to send anything to them. If all this complaining makes MS have second thoughts and decide to accomodate a portion of the people out there, is that really a bad thing?

You make more accusations than present anything factual or even useful opinion. Why someone have so much passion and fanaticism for a product that done put a dime in your pocket is beyond me, unless.... Honestly, don't matter to me if someone uses Apple OS, Linus, Windows or other, it doesn't affect me one bit. MS will still billions regardless and so will Apple.

[Ibthink]

Just relax Ibthink

Oh, thanks, I am quite relaxed.

If all this complaining makes MS have second thoughts and decide to accomodate a portion of the people out there, is that really a bad thing?

It might destroy the "Windows as a Service model" (constant updates), which I quite like, personally, I think it much better to do more and smaller updates, than have one "big update" every 3 years. IMHO that more Fitting to this day and age, and more in line with what most people expect today from a modern operating system.

You make more accusations than present anything factual or even useful opinion.

Which accusation? There is no proof that Microsoft spies on you in Windows 10. That not even opinion, thats fact.

Honestly, don't matter to me if someone uses Apple OS, Linus, Windows or other, it doesn't affect me one bit.

I personally don´t mind a strong Windows ecosystem, as I would rather use Windows than OS X or Chrome OS...

But thats not the point. Thats just my preference, everyone should choose themselfs which OS to use. I was only trying to correct a piece of misinformation, thats going around in the Internet right now. Critisism is needed and good, but saying that Microsoft is a a mean, evil Nazi Company (thats essentially whats going on in some forums) isn´t constructiv critisism, and I doubt they will change anything in Windows 10 based on that....

[hhhd1]

There is no proof that Microsoft spies on you in Windows 10. That not even opinion, thats fact.

Have you read the interesting parts in their license agreement ?

[ajkula66]

Which accusation? There is no proof that Microsoft spies on you in Windows 10. That not even opinion, thats fact.

The *fact* is that Microsoft collects user data. Ars technica's article linked above proves it beyond a reasonable doubt.

The *fact* is also that Microsoft had no problem handing over info to government in the past:

http://venturebeat.com/2013/07/11/microsoft-prism/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/j ... -user-data

http://gizmodo.com/confirmed-nsa-paid-g ... 1188615332

http://www.itproportal.com/2014/05/14/m ... i-and-nsa/

So no, we don't know *for a fact* what the collected data will be used for, but given their past record on the issue at hand MS should simply not be trusted with any of it.

I was only trying to correct a piece of misinformation, thats going around in the Internet right now. Critisism is needed and good, but saying that Microsoft is a a mean, evil Nazi Company (thats essentially whats going on in some forums) isn´t constructiv critisism, and I doubt they will change anything in Windows 10 based on that....

What "piece of misinformation" are you referring to *exactly* ?

[Ibthink]

The *fact* is that Microsoft collects user data. Ars technica's article linked above proves it beyond a reasonable doubt.

Nope, it collects some non-identifiable data, not user data. Read the article again.

The *fact* is also that Microsoft had no problem handing over info to government in the past:

http://venturebeat.com/2013/07/11/microsoft-prism/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/j ... -user-data

http://gizmodo.com/confirmed-nsa-paid-g ... 1188615332

http://www.itproportal.com/2014/05/14/m ... i-and-nsa/

Yes, the are forced to work with the US government. As any US tech company is, sadly. Thats why many people here in Europe argue that we need a European tech company, but then, the situation wouldn´t be better either, I think.

Do you really think any of your data is safe if you use Linux? If the NSA want something, they have plenty of ways to get it. The Linux code-base is so huge as of today, building in a backdoor somewhere should be very easy for them.

Better disconnect from the web altogether, if you really don´t want them to spy on you. And don´t use phones either, or even letters.

What "piece of misinformation" are you referring to *exactly* ?

Or for example:
- You saying that Windows 10 spies on users (there is still no proof for it - only the vague suspicion. Again, you were the one who once said that one has to proof accusations/assertions)
- People saying Microsoft would delete their (pirated) games in Windows 10 (which is really funny, because these reports were based on an old EULA, which is not even about Windows - its about XBox Live accounts)
- Or maybe the FUD that the upgraded Windows 10 would cost something after one year

That happens if someone takes everything thats written in the media, proven or not, for a fact.

Have you read the interesting parts in their license agreement ?

Yes, I have, and the most interesting parts apply not to Windows, but to Microsoft services like Bing, Cortana or Onedrive.

[ajkula66]

The *fact* is that Microsoft collects user data. Ars technica's article linked above proves it beyond a reasonable doubt.

Nope, it collects some non-identifiable data, not user data. Read the article again.

I did.

The data *is* being collected. That much is certain. Which data, and for what purpose is open to speculation.

Yes, the are forced to work with the US government. As any US tech company is, sadly.

There's a difference between volunteering support - which is *exactly* what MS did - and being forced to surrender user data.

Thats why many people here in Europe argue that we need a European tech company, but then, the situation wouldn´t be better either, I think.

I'm not well-versed enough about the legal aspects of the whole thing when it comes to EU so I'll keep quiet on that topic.

Do you really think any of your data is safe if you use Linux? If the NSA want something, they have plenty of ways to get it. The Linux code-base is so huge as of today, building in a backdoor somewhere should be very easy for them.

If NSA and the likes of them want something, they're certainly more than likely to get it. That doesn't mean that I should be offering them *my* data on a silver platter.

Better disconnect from the web altogether, if you really don´t want them to spy on you. And don´t use phones either, or even letters.

The thought of disconnecting from the web has crossed my mind more than just once, but I'll stay around for the time being.

As for the phones and letters, I hope to see the day when checking on these will be subject to the 4th Amendment rights once again.

What "piece of misinformation" are you referring to *exactly* ?

Or for example:
- You saying that Windows 10 spies on users (there is still no proof for it - only the vague suspicion. Again, you were the one who once said that one has to proof accusations/assertions)

OK, let me use a different approach:

1) MS collects data.

2) MS has turned over data to the likes of NSA in the past.

3) Please fill in the blanks and let me know what terms one should use when their data ends up with NSA courtesy of Microsoft.

FTR, I'm just as upset at AT&T, VZ, Apple and the rest of the merry crew for doing the dirty work for the government. However - unlike Microsoft - some of them have tried to fight back, though.

[erik]

The data *is* being collected. That much is certain. Which data, and for what purpose is open to speculation.

to be fair, data collection and reporting have been active since Windows Update was introduced in Win 2000.   this is by no means a new phenomenon.

consumers are crying about a process that has been in place for 15+ years.   enterprise admins have had to pay attention to it for the last decade or more to meet modern HIPAA/SOX/PCI compliance since certain levels of telemetry (dating back to XP and Vista) can violate regulations.   if windows can get on the internet and data collection hasn't been disabled (at least in part) via group policy, the OS will send system topology data to microsoft.   2000, XP, vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10, iOS and most commercial flavors of linux are not immune from this.   rest assured that redhat and ubuntu, just to name two, collect data despite the general assumption that linux is inherently immune from such actions.

i've not seen any definitive evidence that Win 10 Enterprise and Server 2016 break HIPAA/SOX/PCI regs if set up correctly, although i certainly welcome any input here.   if 10 is transmitting personally-identifiable enterprise data that escapes the best deep-packet inspection then they'll be on lawyers' radars in short time.

personally, i'm far more concerned with forced updates.   that's much harder to control in the field without resorting to a WSUS server or hardware firewall with blocking rules.   the privacy stuff is arguably easier in comparison.

[Ibthink]

to be fair, data collection and reporting have been active since Windows Update was introduced in Win 2000. this is by no means a new phenomenon.

Absolutely. I remember back when XP launched this was a big topic as well, and there even were tools like XPAntiSpy released.

Maybe the issue at hand is that Microsoft now more openly says which data is collected and now has visible controls to control certain privacy options - people might not have been aware that former Windows versions already always collected some data.

personally, i'm far more concerned with forced updates. that's much harder to control in the field without resorting to a WSUS server or hardware firewall with blocking rules. the privacy stuff is arguably easier in comparison.

Agreed, that certainly a serious issue for some people, and a very valid concern. I do hope that MS will offer more options here in the future. We will see. Maybe there is a way to find a compromise between the need to keep the machines up to date and giving people more options when to update.

Right now the only options for people are to either delay updates 8 months (in Pro/Enterprise) or install them right away (which is mandatory in home). Only Enterprise LTBS (which is a special Enterprise version) offers the option to use one certain build of Windows 10 for a couple of years before updating is required.

[pianowizard]

What bugs me is the absurd panic machine thats going on (which the media gladly take part in, cause "Windows is spying on you" articles always get clicks).

That happens if someone takes everything thats written in the media, proven or not, for a fact.

I agree with you 1000%. The media is no longer objective like it used to be (or so I've been told -- that was before I was born), and is now only interested in sensationalism, reporting news VERY selectively and using highly misleading language. It's so sad that many people don't understand how to properly interpret news reports, resulting in riots, stock market crashes, and other serious consequences. Online forums often make things even worse.

The article in question got me curious how much more info Windows 10 sends out compared to Windows 7. Thus, I conducted the following experiment:

OBJECTIVE: Test the hypothesis that Windows 10 sends much more info than Windows 7.

MATERIALS & METHODS: Information submitted from a Windows 10 Pro 64bit machine was compared with that from a Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit machine, both of them connected to the internet through Ethernet. On both computers, all telemetry that could be disabled was disabled (e.g. location information, synching of calendars, etc.). I performed the exact same tasks on both computers, namely, 15 min 30 sec of internet browsing. On each computer, I used Internet Explorer 11 to load 31 web sites, and stayed on each site for 30 sec. The same 31 sites were loaded on both computers, although some sites' contents could have varied somewhat because the two computers were tested about an hour apart. The amount of information submitted was monitored through Windows' Network and Sharing Center.

RESULTS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit sent 5,720,035 bytes and received 70,740,682 bytes, whereas Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit sent 5,012,736 and received 53,953,041. Some sites caused the "sent bytes" value to skyrocket, whereas other sites caused a small increase initially and then hardly any further change over the rest of the 30 seconds.

DISCUSSION: Windows 10 sent 14.1% more information than Windows 7, although statistical significance of this difference could not be assessed since only one trial was performed. Regardless of whether this difference was significant, it is probably safe to conclude that Windows 10 does not send much more information than Windows 7, under the conditions of this study. The amount of information submitted depended heavily on which web site was being viewed, and the "bytes sent" value barely increased during the viewing of certain web sites. This suggests that both versions of Windows was sending just a small amount of information in the background, while the vast majority of information submitted was requested by certain web sites. Thus, if you are paranoid about being spied on, you should worry more about web sites spying on you, rather than Microsoft spying on you.

I will let someone else repeat this study with Windows 10's default data sharing left untouched. Naturally, with Cortana and most other telemetry enabled, the 10 vs. 7 difference would widen. So, if you want to avoid exceeding your data quota, just disable them.

[MisterB]

It is a funny world. I can burn as much data as I want a month, but only at 1.5mbs. That fact alone has kept me from being tempted to download the Windows 10 upgrade. I'd have to tie up my connection too long. And then I read about all the privacy issues which extend to some recent Windows 7 and 8 updates. I'm right now manually removing the updates in question from all my Windows 7 Thinkpads. Not a big hassle because all the computers I'm doing real work on run Xp and Vista. The Windows 7 machines are all being used for experiments--personal R & D--or entertainment. I got the docking station for my X201t and found it does great with external monitors and it has turned into a great little media player.

[ajkula66]

The data *is* being collected. That much is certain. Which data, and for what purpose is open to speculation.

to be fair, data collection and reporting have been active since Windows Update was introduced in Win 2000.   this is by no means a new phenomenon.

I'll agree that it's not a new phenomenon. However, the times have changed, as has MS.

"Collecting data" when W2K was released meant a whole different thing from what it means right now. I'm not saying that it's MS' fault - the change of times, that is - but they've done very little to reassure their user base that its privacy is respected, which is a legitimate concern nowadays, as well as a growing one...

  if windows can get on the internet and data collection hasn't been disabled (at least in part) via group policy, the OS will send system topology data to microsoft.   2000, XP, vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10, iOS and most commercial flavors of linux are not immune from this.   rest assured that redhat and ubuntu, just to name two, collect data despite the general assumption that linux is inherently immune from such actions.

Any OS that allows updates via Internet collects some data, that much is certain. What exactly gets collected and who it gets shared with is the entire point of my side of this argument.

I would *strongly* suggest comparing - to stay within the realm of Windows - EULAs for W2K, W7 and W10 when it comes to the topic of data collection and sharing.

personally, i'm far more concerned with forced updates.   that's much harder to control in the field without resorting to a WSUS server or hardware firewall with blocking rules.   the privacy stuff is arguably easier in comparison.

Forced updates are a very troubling parts of the W10 story indeed and have seemingly already started to wreak havoc on certain system configurations.

Maybe the issue at hand is that Microsoft now more openly says which data is collected and now has visible controls to control certain privacy options - people might not have been aware that former Windows versions already always collected some data.

The problem is that "some data" from W2K days has turned into "all data" - unless one is careful - in W10. Yes, a *lot* of the stuff can be turned off, but not nearly enough to get one back to the comfort zone of previous Windows versions, at least in my book.

[erik]

Any OS that allows updates via Internet collects some data, that much is certain. What exactly gets collected and who it gets shared with is the entire point of my side of this argument.

no arguments there.   even if one is able to lock down 10 via the aforementioned methods, the privacy stigma created by recent press will be hard for MS to escape.   i'd love to see an Enterprise P version with privacy on full lockdown straight out of the box.

I would *strongly* suggest comparing - to stay within the realm of Windows - EULAs for W2K, W7 and W10 when it comes to the topic of data collection and sharing.

no arguments there, either.   the only catch with that is EULAs have become moving targets and typically contain verbiage to cover revisions without notice.

Forced updates are a very troubling parts of the W10 story indeed and have seemingly already started to wreak havoc on certain system configurations.

forcing updates has its merits in a SaaS environment where most users don't follow good update practices.   the problem is for us power users and sysadmins.   it's a tough balance.

[laowai]

i agree this issue has been overhyped. i'm not a HUGE fan of MS, in fact I have hated on them for a long time. but i am liking win10 after tweaking it. if you speed through installs of anything you get what you deserve. "i care about my security and im outraged that not paying attention has resulted in something i dont like". that's the mentality here. the ISP is to blame in the first place as it is. If you are dealing with stuff that needs to be secure, you airgap. If you don't want to airgap and are paranoid and still want to run win, you have a hardware firewall block everything you don't like.

for an AVERAGE user, if the updates are not done automatically, they will never be done. which results in unsecure systems. that's what this is about. I am not 100% against it. what i AM against is the way that this can be used to force malware by the NSA, but they have been able to do that for quite some time.

[pianowizard]

I can burn as much data as I want a month, but only at 1.5mbs. That fact alone has kept me from being tempted to download the Windows 10 upgrade.

Assuming the download is 2,500 MB, it would take 3.7 hours at 1.5 Mbps (0.1875 MB per sec). Just leave the computer on overnight.

I would *strongly* suggest comparing - to stay within the realm of Windows - EULAs for W2K, W7 and W10 when it comes to the topic of data collection and sharing.

Keep in mind that part of the difference probably merely reflects a change in the way lawyers write these documents. Each time a company gets sued, its lawyers learn from the experience and add stuff to the document to try to avoid future troubles. When EULA says "we will use the data this way, that way, and potentially additional ways", it doesn't necessarily mean Microsoft is actually doing more data sharing than before.

but i am liking win10 after tweaking it.

I find Windows 10 to be more user-friendly than all previous versions. I started to put Windows 10 on my computers as soon as it came out on July 29th. Stability was a major issue in the first couple weeks, with most of my computers suffering blue screens, some of which even required Windows to be reset. But I don't recall having major problems in the past week or two. The "eject" icon in the system tray is still unreliable on most computers, but everything else has been pretty smooth. Hopefully additional Windows Update fixes will further polish things up.

if you speed through installs of anything you get what you deserve. "i care about my security and im outraged that not paying attention has resulted in something i dont like". that's the mentality here.

I mostly agree. However, there are lots of settings to disable, more than all previous Windows versions COMBINED. It feels like it takes 5 - 10 minutes to disable all optional telemetry for each computer. I have put Windows 10 on only nine computers, but am already kind of annoyed by the process. IT staff who do this on hundreds of computers would really hate it.

[MisterB]

I can burn as much data as I want a month, but only at 1.5mbs. That fact alone has kept me from being tempted to download the Windows 10 upgrade.

Assuming the download is 2,500 MB, it would take 3.7 hours at 1.5 Mbps (0.1875 MB per sec). Just leave the computer on overnight.

I find Windows 10 to be more user-friendly than all previous versions. I started to put Windows 10 on my computers as soon as it came out on July 29th. Stability was a major issue in the first couple weeks, with most of my computers suffering blue screens, some of which even required Windows to be reset. But I don't recall having major problems in the past week or two. The "eject" icon in the system tray is still unreliable on most computers, but everything else has been pretty smooth. Hopefully additional Windows Update fixes will further polish things up.

if you speed through installs of anything you get what you deserve. "i care about my security and im outraged that not paying attention has resulted in something i dont like". that's the mentality here.

I mostly agree. However, there are lots of settings to disable, more than all previous Windows versions COMBINED. It feels like it takes 5 - 10 minutes to disable all optional telemetry for each computer. I have put Windows 10 on only nine computers, but am already kind of annoyed by the process. IT staff who do this on hundreds of computers would really hate it.

Internet connection speed is not the only reason I hesitate to do any Windows 10 upgrades. You actually pointed out a couple of others. One, the system is not yet completely finished and stable, the other is I don't really feel like tweaking a new system right now. Not being able to control the update process is also one. I tell my computers when to download updates, not the other way around. Limited bandwidth makes this problematical and I don't have any software upgrading itself automatically.

The real deciding factor is the privacy issue. Apparently the settings only do so much and they can be overridden remotely. Not good.

[laowai]

Internet connection speed is not the only reason I hesitate to do any Windows 10 upgrades. You actually pointed out a couple of others. One, the system is not yet completely finished and stable, the other is I don't really feel like tweaking a new system right now. Not being able to control the update process is also one. I tell my computers when to download updates, not the other way around. Limited bandwidth makes this problematical and I don't have any software upgrading itself automatically.

The real deciding factor is the privacy issue. Apparently the settings only do so much and they can be overridden remotely. Not good.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2953132/ ... -pace.html

there ya go.

Seriously, a lot of this smacks of going out of the way to find things to whine about. The simple fact is that it's more than possible to modify and control things. It's just not setup that way by default. Even with a *nix system, you're going to be spending a good long time in setup and tweaking the system. In this day and age... limited bandwidth? That's not the fault of MS and if it's a problem, then you should change your ISP to one that isn't horrible.

I'm finding a few bugs here and there in win10, but it is most likely related to my kerjiggering and the way I updated rather than fresh installed... and the way I took my pirate 8.1 drive out of the T60, put it directly into the T420s and booted it up. But it handled it all just fine. If it's a massive issue, just grab a copy of enterprise and you can manage it all the way you want to out of the box with zero tweaking required.

[ajkula66]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2953132/ ... -pace.html

there ya go.

Doesn't work on LAN. Ethernet can NOT be set as metered connection in W10.

[Puppy]

While I see the point being worried about privacy I am wondering how many of these Windows 10 privacy doomsayers uses an Android device that is billion times worse when it comes to privacy, security, control and stability. Some of these Windows 10 telemetry features can be turned off (there is good local article about it, automatic translation to english almost works). Microsoft does not need your private data (yet) they can make profit by other things, Google does as it generates the only income by targeted ads. All these "relevant" information about "Windows 10 sending home every keystroke" are based on a single article published on well-known russian propaganda site that can not be taken seriously, at least it has started that way over here.

I think there are more serious Windows 10 Home and Pro flaws (forced Windows Updates, lack of UI options etc.) than these telemetry data. BTW Mozilla does it for many years as well.

[pianowizard]

Not being able to control the update process is also one. I tell my computers when to download updates, not the other way around. Limited bandwidth makes this problematical and I don't have any software upgrading itself automatically.

I would think that Windows 10's more frequent updates of smaller sizes are more favorable to your limited bandwidth than Windows 7's less frequent but humongous updates. Even at work where I get 940 Mbps (both download and upload), I often had to wait 5 minutes or more for Windows 7's "Patch Tuesday" updates to complete. I used to spend that time going to the restroom and/or getting breakfast. Thanks to Windows 10, that inconvenience is now gone.

The real deciding factor is the privacy issue. Apparently the settings only do so much and they can be overridden remotely. Not good.

Did you see our discussions earlier in this thread, including the experiment I did?

Seriously, a lot of this smacks of going out of the way to find things to whine about.

People who are biased against Microsoft will make a big deal out of minor issues. As an analogy, if you dislike a certain person, everything s/he does seems wrong.

It is fashionable to bash Microsoft, and many people like to do whatever happens to be trendy.

In this day and age... limited bandwidth? That's not the fault of MS and if it's a problem, then you should change your ISP to one that isn't horrible.

In some areas, even in advanced countries, there is only one ISP available. Another thing you need to know is that internet service in the U.S. is outrageously costly. Many people opt for slow ISPs to save money; the same amount of money would get you super fast connections in China. In fact, at home, I just use my smartphone, or tether it to my computers.

[MisterB]

Where I live there are just 2 ISPs plus cellular data plans which are expensive and have monthly data caps. Of our two dedicated ISPs, I choose the more expensive and reliable one. Their network management and security practices are excellent and the downtime I've experienced over the last year can be measured in minutes. The other choice is faster and cheaper but they are notorious for outages that last for days and have a reputation for being sloppy in the way they run things.

Some of us have higher standards for privacy than others. Privacy issues at the OS level are a serious concern. When they come from an unwanted third party, they are referred to as root kits.

I will at some time do a test install of Windows 10 in a computer that isn't being used for anything else but I have no intention of upgrading any working and functional Windows 7 systems to Windows 10. In regards to forced updates, I could simply block access to the MS servers on my router and allow them to happen when I want to but I prefer to just do them manually when I chose like in previous versions of Windows and not have to bother with such work arounds.

[exTPfan]

I mostly agree. However, there are lots of settings to disable, more than all previous Windows versions COMBINED. It feels like it takes 5 - 10 minutes to disable all optional telemetry for each computer. I have put Windows 10 on only nine computers, but am already kind of annoyed by the process. IT staff who do this on hundreds of computers would really hate it.

Turning off these options only means that MS no longer automatically accesses your files. You have still given it permission to access all your files if, for example, it (perhaps wrongly) suspects you are pirating its software or doing something that might jeopardize its ability to operate in China.

[pianowizard]

Turning off these options only means that MS no longer automatically accesses your files. You have still given it permission to access all your files if, for example, it (perhaps wrongly) suspects you are pirating its software or doing something that might jeopardize its ability to operate in China.

I guess you mean this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comm ... /?sort=old

Yes, Microsoft could access your files if it wants to, or if it is ordered by the NSA to. Microsoft could do this even if the EULA (of Windows XP, for example) doesn't explicitly mention this possibility. Like I said, over time, lawyers keep adding stuff to the EULA to protect Microsoft from new liabilities that they think of. To me, this means virtually nothing. If you have time, scan over the comments on the above site. Some of the posters made excellent points.

I understand that some people are more sensitive and are concerned about events that could happen. But trillions of things could happen on any day, the vast majority of them with infinitesimal probabilities.