The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

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The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#1 Post by hhhd1 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:02 am

Pretty much, the worst thing about windows 10, is not only its privacy options, but for microsoft to change privacy settings and reducing your control over your PC over time, which their license allow them to do.

http://winaero.com/blog/microsoft-locks ... ry-update/

Quote:

Today, we surprisingly discovered that Microsoft has secretly changed the availability of some Group Policy options in Windows 10 version 1607. Windows 10 version 1607 "Anniversary Update" has reduced the control via Group Policy that you have in Pro edition. Pro edition users have lesser options available compared to version 1511, so many behaviors of the OS cannot be controlled.

Example:

"Turn off Microsoft consumer experiences"
Using this option, you could prevent Windows 10 from automatically downloading and installing promoted apps like Candy Crush Soda Saga, Flipper, Twitter, NetFlix, Pandora, MSN News and many other potentially unwanted apps and games. Now you can't prevent these apps from being automatically downloaded and installed if you are using Windows 10 Pro or Home editions. The policy setting (or Registry setting) has no effect in these editions.
===

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#2 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:39 am

Oh wow.

Thank you for posting this.

I've given up on the idea of installing W10 on any of my systems quite some time ago, but this development should be a show-stopper for just about anyone who prefers to be in control of their own PC on any meaningful level...
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#3 Post by Cigarguy » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:29 am

MS is going Apple+Google. Not necessarily the best of each either.

As a cigar loving, scotch and beer drinking guy I'm not a fan of corporations or governments telling me what they are doing is for my own benefit. I believe myself and 90% of my friends are smart enough to make good decisions for themselves when presented with options and a little bit of facts.

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#4 Post by bit_twiddler » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:51 pm

I'm going back to 8.1. The only thing that is making me want to stick with Windoze at this
point is that GIMP is not competitive with PS at this time. Hopefully, by 2023 that will
all be sorted out.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#5 Post by Kilkenny » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:45 am

Microsoft's sliminess with W10 has surprised even me, and I have enjoyed a healthy hatred of that company for years and years. Between the privacy catastrophe and all the underhanded ways in which they try to trick you into installing it, this has been Microsoft at its worst, and that's saying a lot. I will not buy anything from Microsoft for the rest of my life.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#6 Post by TonyJZX » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:53 pm

I think the biggest disappointment to me is the legions of people who will defend Microsoft to the very end, even on this forum.

Win7 has the same problem XP had, its too good, its good enough, I dont need anything better than this, I dont need no "anniversary update".

The more I use Win10 the more I realise that its not worth paying any money for since it always seems like a trojan horse for Microsoft to sell more 'services' to you while surreptitiously take away control from you... for $100? No thank you.

Saying that if you need to use Windows, stick with Win7. It'll be here for a long time... I suspect long after 2020 which is their EOL.

I worked for many companies, multinaitonals that invested 10s if not 100s of millions into Win7 and they wont stand by with just 3yrs left.

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#7 Post by micrex22 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:47 am

TonyJZX wrote:I think the biggest disappointment to me is the legions of people who will defend Microsoft to the very end, even on this forum.
Heh, you'll notice the usual Win10 defenders on here aren't saying anything now :lol:

They couldn't be convinced the Win 10 EULA had issues or that Win 10 had privacy issues (that were difficult to deal with), now we have this. Well I hope everyone enjoys their copy of Windows 10 Professional. *cough*

I guess an operating system with a dreaful UI deserves a crippled gpedit. As someone in the I.T. industry though, let's say I had the NEED to use gpedit for something client-specific that Microsoft blacklisted, well I'm scr*wed now.

But hey! Since I have "nothing to hide" I should just bend over, submit to CEIP (that never fixes any of the bugs I encounter in Windows anyways), and allow my computer to torrent updates to other computers handicapping my upload. Sounds fantastic. Oh yeah, don't forget about automatic updates that cannot be indefinitely deferred, I love being interrupted on my professional work or allowing my computer to restart when it's not convenient.

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#8 Post by shawross » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:44 am

I recently installed the Windows 7 Convenience update on a old dual core Dell desktop I have. Install seemed to go well but after the update I couldn't connect to the internet with Chrome but I could with Internet Explorer. A system Image was restored and back to normal.

Hmm, this desktop had all the prerequisites but failed. Obviously I won't be using that update procedure for my Thinkpads. I have now disabled Windows Updates on my Windows 7 machines as I don't trust MS.

I am not ready to go to Linux and somethings I do require Windows. I am between the Devil and the deep blue sea. This is why I have digitally signed most of my computers to Windows 10.

Although ATM my daily driver is currently running Win 7 with updates disabled. Using Avast and with regular scans of Malwarebytes coupled with commonsense will hopefully keep me protected.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#9 Post by TPFanatic » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:57 pm

I'm going to add my testament to Windows 10's inability to perform basic functions to the same effectiveness as prior Windows. Apparently there was a new cumulative rollup update for the end of August, but the piece of crap update has to uninstall / revert itself every time.

Next there's a high disk usage issue inherent to Windows 10's Anniversary Edition which slows down everything, the "start menu", explorer, the desktop itself, all rendered unusable. I'm trying to set up an R500 with latest 10 and this makes it impossible. There is no solution to this issue! The previous version of 10 doesn't have this issue I don't think, but there's no way to get that.

Never Ten.

edit: I just disabled the "Get updates from Microsoft, and get updates from and send updates to PCs on my local network" feature and the disk usage dropped. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.
Do NOT enable this fundamentally flawed "feature", and if it is enabled you can disable it from Settings->Update and Security->Windows Update->Advanced Options->Choose how Updates are delivered and disable it.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#10 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:32 am

If anybody comes to me with a W10 problem, I turn them away, unless they want to go back to W7.
Micro$haft will never force W10 onto me or my family!
I put a test-HDD with minimal W7-Pro in my T420 and then DOWNgraded to W10-Pro, just to get it registered for W10, then wiped that HDD.
If I ever sell that T420 to someone with W10 aspirations, they can at least get W10 for free.
Because free is all that W10 is worth and even that is a gross exaggeration!

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#11 Post by Dekks » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:49 am

These changes are what you get with free product in order to minimise support costs everything is being pushed into a minimal set of configurations that telemetry and automation can fix instead of human intervention. Plus it smacks of forcing SME businesses onto the enterprise version.

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#12 Post by w0qj » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:20 pm

Folks, we're about to pull the trigger to buy another ThinkPad notebook that has Win'10 Pro 64-bit, albeit with Win'7 Pro 64-bit downgrade rights.

We plan to use Win'7 Pro 64-bit until the bitter end in the year 2020.

But what happens after Win'7 support expires in 2020 ??

This is a nightmare for those of us actually (attempting) to manage corporate computers, thanks to Win'10 :(
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#13 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:24 pm

Start re-schooling your staff on Linux.
But, come 2020, you may get a chip implanted in your wrist which automatically connects to your eyeballs and voicebox.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#14 Post by hhhd1 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:01 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:But, come 2020, you may get a chip implanted in your wrist which automatically connects to your eyeballs and voicebox.
That is not the worst issue of win10, the built-in instability is the real issue, ..
the update process that auto updates important system services and drivers at any time, and some time NEW installations not just updates, makes it less usable for serious work.

Enterprise editions may be usable, although they may require allot of configuring before being stable.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#15 Post by TPFanatic » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:48 pm

A good number of people still use XP and isn't Britain still paying MS to update XP?

So if that OS is still kicking Windows 7 should remain very usable after 2020. The biggest problem with 7 is MS destroying the Windows Update system. They sort of fixed it in 7 but didn't bother fixing it in Vista, so that's the only reason Vista remains unusable now. So it takes hours to get Vista updates where 7's comes in a lot faster when it's working - when it's broken it also takes hours for 7.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#16 Post by jaspen-meyer » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:41 pm

TPFanatic wrote:A good number of people still use XP
My numbers show 1.5 - 3.2% of browsers are running on XP.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#17 Post by exTPfan » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:25 pm

Netmarketshare is showing the following figures for desktop operating systems:
XP 9.1%; W7 48.3%; W8 9.6%; W10 22.5%.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#18 Post by evening_hunger » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:49 am

bit_twiddler wrote:I'm going back to 8.1. The only thing that is making me want to stick with Windoze at this
point is that GIMP is not competitive with PS at this time. Hopefully, by 2023 that will
all be sorted out.
I would appreciate if you could present me with any manipulation done in PS that I cannot reproduce with GIMP. Ideally, the proof package should consist of: original image(s), manipulated image, and some time.
Then we talk.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#19 Post by Kilkenny » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:12 am

shawross wrote:I recently installed the Windows 7 Convenience update on a old dual core Dell desktop I have. Install seemed to go well but after the update I couldn't connect to the internet with Chrome but I could with Internet Explorer. A system Image was restored and back to normal.

Hmm, this desktop had all the prerequisites but failed. Obviously I won't be using that update procedure for my Thinkpads. I have now disabled Windows Updates on my Windows 7 machines as I don't trust MS.

I am not ready to go to Linux and somethings I do require Windows. I am between the Devil and the deep blue sea. This is why I have digitally signed most of my computers to Windows 10.

Although ATM my daily driver is currently running Win 7 with updates disabled. Using Avast and with regular scans of Malwarebytes coupled with commonsense will hopefully keep me protected.
Most people I know who run Linux dual boot it with Windows, so that might be an option if you aren't ready to go to it full time. If you don't want to mess with partitioning, I'd recommend just getting a 2nd HDD or mSATA SSD if your laptop supports it. Windows is only going to get worse.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#20 Post by TPFanatic » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:28 am

evening_hunger wrote:
bit_twiddler wrote:I'm going back to 8.1. The only thing that is making me want to stick with Windoze at this
point is that GIMP is not competitive with PS at this time. Hopefully, by 2023 that will
all be sorted out.
I would appreciate if you could present me with any manipulation done in PS that I cannot reproduce with GIMP. Ideally, the proof package should consist of: original image(s), manipulated image, and some time.
Then we talk.
Yes, draw a circle.

(jk I like gimp too)
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#21 Post by TonyJZX » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:23 pm

Most people I know who run Linux dual boot it with Windows, so that might be an option if you aren't ready to go to it full time. If you don't want to mess with partitioning, I'd recommend just getting a 2nd HDD or mSATA SSD if your laptop supports it. Windows is only going to get worse.
just buy another laptop... remember what forum you are on.

This place seems to represent a significant percentage of the world's running Thinkpad fleet.

On my main work laptops, I use Win7. I just want these units to boot to a clean desktop with no stock prices, temperatures or idiotic news I dont need.

I have other laptops running Win10 and Mint.

I dont mind if Win10 infects one of my play testing whatever laptops as its not critical. However yes, I do find it abhorent that MS can charge $160 for an o/s and THEN push Candy Crush Saga and whatever nonsense to you at will.

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#22 Post by jdhurst » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:13 pm

you could prevent Windows 10 from automatically downloading and installing promoted apps like Candy Crush Soda Saga

Use Remove-AppxPackage from an admin Powershell command to remove apps you do not want.

I have also found that apps removed from the start menu and not used do not do anything.

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#23 Post by hhhd1 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:35 pm

jdhurst wrote:you could prevent Windows 10 from automatically downloading and installing promoted apps like Candy Crush Soda Saga

Use Remove-AppxPackage from an admin Powershell command to remove apps you do not want.

I have also found that apps removed from the start menu and not used do not do anything.
That is not the point, the point is that without asking, MS will install/upgrade any app/driver at any time.

what to do when those apps installs on hundreds of PCs in an office ?

you will have to be continuously cautious about what they will add whenever they feel like it.

for example, the driver MS supplys through windows update for intel wireless is not stable, but the ones available at either intel or lenovo website are fine.
now i do NOT want MS updating the driver through the update.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#24 Post by micrex22 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:35 pm

jdhurst wrote:you could prevent Windows 10 from automatically downloading and installing promoted apps like Candy Crush Soda Saga

Use Remove-AppxPackage from an admin Powershell command to remove apps you do not want.

I have also found that apps removed from the start menu and not used do not do anything.
However simply uninstalling them won't prevent them from being reinstalled in the anniversary update or subsequent updates (which is the whole problem outlined at winaero and many other places). The security permissions need to be changed, it's explained here:
http://winaero.com/blog/stop-windows-10 ... nted-apps/

Personally that's just unacceptable, I don't want to see advertisements on lock screens and applications pushed to my computer with whatever MS deems fit. Not to mention things constantly change with each update making it more and more difficult. Soon as MS finds out what people have done to forcefully turn off certain things, they pull the rug from under you, causing you to rinse and repeat and modify your installation with yet more workarounds.

I'm not budging off Windows 7 (which is still the most-used OS as it stands). I'm waiting to see where the Win10 train is going and the increasing 'issues' people have with the forced updates. :twisted:

I think it's time for the POWER8 workstations with Linux to get more momentum so we can get off of x86 and Windows:
https://www.raptorengineering.com/TALOS/prerelease.php

But ThinkPads are not POWER8 based you might say--not to worry. There are no more IBM ThinkPads so users who care will just continue to use T601s as mobile devices while the whole world degrades to lesser technology. I try and try to come to terms with Lenovo ThinkPads but every one is a SCREW UP in some form or another. They have no care for QUALITY and don't understand IBM's thought process behind features.

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#25 Post by jdhurst » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:57 am

I'm not budging off Windows 7 (which is still the most-used OS as it stands). I'm waiting to see where the Win10 train is going and the increasing 'issues' people have with the forced updates

If you run the newest versions of Windows 10, you do have some flexibility of when to install updates. I have my own Windows 10 machines and clients' Windows 10 machines to update outside the hours of 7am to 7pm. This generally works.

Windows 10 now has about 25% market share and Windows 7 is less than 50% so the train is roaring down the track.

The forced updates ultimately were caused by users who turned updates OFF, ignored security, hosed their machines and then complained to Microsoft about their foolishness. It would have been silly to expect any different outcome.

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#26 Post by micrex22 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:13 pm

jdhurst wrote: If you run the newest versions of Windows 10, you do have some flexibility of when to install updates. I have my own Windows 10 machines and clients' Windows 10 machines to update outside the hours of 7am to 7pm. This generally works.

Windows 10 now has about 25% market share and Windows 7 is less than 50% so the train is roaring down the track.

The forced updates ultimately were caused by users who turned updates OFF, ignored security, hosed their machines and then complained to Microsoft about their foolishness. It would have been silly to expect any different outcome.
The division at Microsoft that decided upon the forced updates actually thinks that everyone should just be 'up to date' since they cannot conceive that anyone else would want otherwise. Many employees internally at Microsoft itself don't agree with that course of action and they have a thread going back and forth about it.

Windows 10's usage (presently) is actually the same at where Windows 8 was when it was first released; so its adoption hasn't been any better. Windows 7 usage has been consistently in a decline since 2012 prior to Windows 10's release. The fact that Windows 7 usage is as high as it is, speaks for itself.

Limited flexibility still does not let you permanently turn off candy crush and future applications Microsoft may push to the OS that you don't want (installed in the background without your permission). Not to mention if an update were to be pushed to my computer and brick it due to some driver incompatibility and required to reinstall the OS / that would be HIGHLY inconvenient for me with the software I run on my main desktop. It's just not an option / the anniversary update (which cannot be deferred) is such an example.

This could have been excused if it only accounted for *minor* updates and *no* programs being pushed to your OS. And not having settings reset would be nice, too.

Windows 10 has other issues, Nate Lineback covers a lot of it:
http://toastytech.com/guis/win10.html

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#27 Post by TPFanatic » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:33 pm

My biggest problem with Windows 10 is the extensive HDD usage. My T500 running 7 right now blinks the HDD light maybe every 5-10 seconds?

On Win10 it's always a steady flickering with 5 minutes of pegged HDD usage after every power cycle: startup, wake from sleep, reboot. I hate this so much.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#28 Post by micrex22 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:09 pm

TPFanatic wrote:My biggest problem with Windows 10 is the extensive HDD usage. My T500 running 7 right now blinks the HDD light maybe every 5-10 seconds?

On Win10 it's always a steady flickering with 5 minutes of pegged HDD usage after every power cycle: startup, wake from sleep, reboot. I hate this so much.
That could be due to the "fast startup" where Windows 10 persistenly uses a hibernation file and never actually 'shuts down' / this causes loads of problems if you want to reset a local password on the SAM database with ntpasswd. You can disable the pseudo-always-present-hibernation and the hibernation file by running this in CMD as admin:

Code: Select all

powercfg -h off

REG ADD "HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Power" /V HiberbootEnabled /T REG_dWORD /D 0 /F
Re-enabling it is as follows:

Code: Select all

powercfg -h on

REG ADD "HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Power" /V HiberbootEnabled /T REG_dWORD /D 1 /F 
Although I accept no responsibility if your Windows 10 installation becomes volatile and self-combusts as a result of disabling "fast" startup :lol:

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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#29 Post by TPFanatic » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:58 pm

Hah, it already committed suicide once. :lol: I'll try that, thanks. The only other problem I'm having is the better looking Lenovo Battery Gauge bundled together with the Settings patch vanished so I'm stuck using the older inferior version that lacks mouseover info.
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Re: The worst has happened: MS removing GroupPolicy options for Win10pro

#30 Post by micrex22 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:43 am

TPFanatic wrote:Hah, it already committed suicide once. :lol: I'll try that, thanks. The only other problem I'm having is the better looking Lenovo Battery Gauge bundled together with the Settings patch vanished so I'm stuck using the older inferior version that lacks mouseover info.
I did some research as I found that interesting (I didn't know Lenovo released a "companion app" for the battery under Windows 10, Lenovo system update didn't seem to push it through just the classic one). Apparently the problem can be due to a malformed .MSI of earlier versions. But what's even more interesting is that the main page for the 'battery gauge' gives a 404 and people are saying Lenovo discontinued the battery gauge companion / which would explain why system update doesn't deploy it. I also didn't notice it present on a fresh X1 Tablet running Windows 10.

Here's where the plot thickens, most people are posting this version of the battery gauge:
https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/mo ... 10ww23.exe

However... for fun I was going through higher numbers and noticed later versions are present (I was wondering if a newer version had been released since most posts talking about this are from a few months ago):
https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/mo ... 10ww45.exe

So... I guess... try seeing if 4.5 of battery gauge works?

I wonder what the 'ww' means in the executable's name: 'bg' is for battery gauge, '10' refers to Windows 10. Maybe it stands for WindoWs, or 'Why Windows?' or maybe even 'Windows is not OS/2 Warp'.

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