And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

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And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#1 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:35 pm

And here's another reason to avoid Micro$haft's crapware W10:
Microsoft cuts off Windows 10 support early for some PCs :twisted:
If Microsoft sticks to its announced support deadlines, any device running Windows 10 version 1607 will stop receiving updates in early 2018. In some cases, this cutoff date will be only three years after those devices were placed in service.

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#2 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:49 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:And here's another reason to avoid Micro$haft's crapware W10:
Microsoft cuts off Windows 10 support early for some PCs :twisted:
If Microsoft sticks to its announced support deadlines, any device running Windows 10 version 1607 will stop receiving updates in early 2018. In some cases, this cutoff date will be only three years after those devices were placed in service.
All aboard the Titanic 2, now known as the Windows 10 Boat. Microsoft is artifically creating icebergs and blaming it on the ship being a few years old.

All aboard the linux train!
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And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#3 Post by TheAuldMan76 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:00 pm

Madness!!!
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#4 Post by ArtShapiro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:04 pm

Balderdash! I'm sure most of us have no machines using that extreme low-end CPU; the announcement is completely irrelevant to anyone likely to frequent this forum.

Art

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#5 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:08 pm

ArtShapiro wrote:Balderdash! I'm sure most of us have no machines using that extreme low-end CPU; the announcement is completely irrelevant to anyone likely to frequent this forum.

Art
What about all of us Core 2 Duo Lovers. Plenty of us use FrankenPads. It depends if they count manufacturing date or raw power?
Welcome to the jungle, we have FrankenPads
If you want it you're going to bleed, but that is the price to pay
And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
You can see the blinky lights, but you won't get them for free.

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#6 Post by ArtShapiro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:35 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:08 pm
What about all of us Core 2 Duo Lovers. Plenty of us use FrankenPads. It depends if they count manufacturing date or raw power?
When I read the article, I thought it was referencing a very low-end Atom processor, period. Core 2 Duo is perfectly "safe". Someone correct me if my recollection of the article is faulty.

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#7 Post by shawross » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:47 pm

Yes it is only for the Atom processor 2 in 1 machines but personally I feel it may not always be a bad thing unless some serious exploits emerge.

Windows Updates can be painful and on lower powered machines would grind everything to a halt.

As long as you run a decent anitivirus software like Avast and do weekly scans with malware bytes you should be ok. WMMV

Microsoft will undoubtedly correct this so they can get their spyware back up and running on these machines. LOL
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#8 Post by ZaZ » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:15 am

shawross wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:47 pm
As long as you run a decent anitivirus software like Avast and do weekly scans with malware bytes you should be ok.
I haven't used anti-virus since the early 2000s and always disable Windows Update, though I do use a firewall. I've never had a problem.

I'd say Microsoft handed out their product they spent a lot of money to develop for free. Take it as such and maybe they should have read the EULA if it was that important. They can always go back to the old OS if they're concerned about updates.
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#9 Post by dr_st » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:14 am

This is nothing new.

Microsoft always EOLd support for an older service pack / RTM release a short time after the newer service pack came out. The latest service pack has always received the full 5+5 year (mainstream + extended) support.

The only difference with Win10, is that "Service packs" are now "milestone releases" and Microsoft plans to continue release them continuously (~twice a year). Windows 1607 has been superseded by 1703. This will, in turn, be superseded by the next drop (Redstone 3), etc.

The problem is that some hardware that may be running 1607 suddenly "cannot run" 1703. This needs to be investigated. I am not sure there were cases in the past where fundamental hardware incompatibilities blocked a Windows service pack, when the previous release (of the same OS) ran. Maybe there was something between Win8 and Win8.1?
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#10 Post by TPFanatic » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:27 am

"The best antivirus is you." - reddit people

Windows 10 is STUPID compared to 7. The Metro apps (eg. Settings, Start Menu) are prone to graphical errors, lag, and glitches. They're designed for touchscreens so keyboard shortcuts/navigation is impossible. The Cortana Search is incredibly slow and stupid with its first results being, "Search Bing!" Vista's search is far superior.

Have I ranted on this forum about 10's redundancy yet? There's a Windows 7-style Control Panel AND the Windows 10 Settings App that give you two different GUIs for the same things like uninstalling programs, and sometimes each one lists different programs! Some programs aren't listed at all.

Then if you want to change the screen resolution... RMB on desktop, click Personalize to open Settings, then find the little "Advanced Display Settings" button to open the Control Panel. Then you can change the screen resolution. Ridiculous.

Here is an example of 10's DYNAMIC IDIOCY. There's a feature called "Click Delay" that disables mouse clicks for a set time after pressing any key. This is necessary if you use a touchpad and unnecessary if you use Trackpoint. Now, this feature has been around a LONG time in Thinkpads. Have you ever seen that vague "Optimize for Trackpoint and Keyboard input" checkbox in the Ultranav settings? It enables a click and motion input null-period on the touchpad only.

In 10 it enforces "click delay" on both the Trackpoint and touchpad buttons. Also in the Creator's Update they changed the name of the "click delay" setting so you can never find it; they merged it with the "Touchpad Sensitivity" option in Settings with ZERO mention of the click delay aspect. Took me awhile to figure this out! STUPID.
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#11 Post by w0qj » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:53 am

We plan to use Windows 7 until the bitter end in 2020, when support ends for it.
[Edit: Year 2020 !]

Problem is, what to do after that?
We still have programs that must run on Windows.

Not crazy about that spyware Windows 10, and a few (rare?) forced Windows Update(s) which suddenly breaks program support.
Last edited by w0qj on Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#12 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:25 pm

If you must, use W7 in a VM or similar, or rather:
make the switch to Linux and run your Windows-depending program(s) under Wine.

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#13 Post by w0qj » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:08 am

This is starting to digress from OP's original topic (Sorry!!),
but just one quick question:

1. What flavour of Linux should we look into? We have just 3 requirements:
a) Easy Linux installation (no command lines!). <<We can do Thinkpad Win7 Product Recovery, so we're sorta technical>>
b) Linux should mimic Windows 7 as much as possible.
c) We need to run Windows Emulator for Windows 7 (Wine, VM, etc. etc.)
RealBlackStuff wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:25 pm
If you must, use W7 in a VM or similar, or rather:
make the switch to Linux and run your Windows-depending program(s) under Wine.
Daily Driver: X1 Carbon 4th Gen (X1C4): i7-6600U 2.6GHz; 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz; 1TB PCIe-NVMe SSD; 14" WQHD 2560x1440; LTE EM7455 Mobile Broadband; Win7 Pro 64bit
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#14 Post by lophiomys » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:49 am

By coincidence I just migrated one T60 T5500 from Linux Mint KDE (a LTS release from 2016)
to Manjaro 17.0 KDE and I am absolutely happy.
Manjaro 17 is fast and absolutely hassle free so far.
Its tested rolling release model gives me a good balance between quick software patches and stability.
HTH
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#15 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:02 am

@w0qj:
Read the above Linux link I gave.
Alternatives:
- https://itsfoss.com/windows-like-linux-distributions/
- https://www.lifewire.com/best-windows-l ... es-2201177
- http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/best-linux ... ndows-mac/
And plenty more info if you search the web...

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#16 Post by Dekks » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:15 am

shawross wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:47 pm
Windows Updates can be painful and on lower powered machines would grind everything to a halt.
That was the issue that made me move to Linux on everything bar 1 gaming box.

FWIW those cpus were delayed by approx 2 years due to driver issues so its not surprising the GMA gfx chipset is causing more problems.

Win10 is free so it's not surprising fringe/legacy support cases are the first to be left behind as the ship sails on. Don't forget as it's free they have to minimise support costs and montarise it somehow hence the telemetry/spyware [however you see it]. That will tell them roughly how many users come into this case and they obviously have decided to take the pain.
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#17 Post by TheAuldMan76 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:56 pm

How about using Windows 8.1, with third party utilities??? Just wanted to throw that out there, as it's supported by Microsoft until January 10th, 2023 so it has an additional three years worth of support from Microsoft and you should, in theory, be able to to prevent any information grabbing via third party utilities. Okay it's not the greatest of Windows Operating Systems out there (IMHO) but at least it shouldn't be as bad as Windows 10...what do you think???
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#18 Post by dr_st » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:10 pm

We think that Windows 8.1 is not bad. We think that Windows 10 is also not bad.
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#19 Post by TheAuldMan76 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:18 pm

dr_st wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:10 pm
We think that Windows 8.1 is not bad. We think that Windows 10 is also not bad.
Really??? ;-)
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#20 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:25 pm

TheAuldMan76 wrote:
dr_st wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:10 pm
We think that Windows 8.1 is not bad. We think that Windows 10 is also not bad.
Really??? ;-)
I think there both AWFUL!!!!!!

Text size isn't exaggurated, its an understatement.
Welcome to the jungle, we have FrankenPads
If you want it you're going to bleed, but that is the price to pay
And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
You can see the blinky lights, but you won't get them for free.

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#21 Post by TheAuldMan76 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:29 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:25 pm
TheAuldMan76 wrote:
Really??? ;-)
I think there both AWFUL!!!!!!

Text size isn't exaggurated, its an understatement.
In that case I shall slowly retreat back to my pint glass at the bar!!! ;-)
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#22 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:32 pm

TheAuldMan76 wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:29 pm
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:25 pm

I think there both AWFUL!!!!!!

Text size isn't exaggurated, its an understatement.
In that case I shall slowly retreat back to my pint glass at the bar!!! ;-)
Your pint glass probably runs a better Operating System than windows 10 :) . Atleast It doesnt spy on you.
Welcome to the jungle, we have FrankenPads
If you want it you're going to bleed, but that is the price to pay
And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
You can see the blinky lights, but you won't get them for free.

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#23 Post by dr_st » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:35 pm

TheAuldMan76 wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:18 pm
dr_st wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:10 pm
We think that Windows 8.1 is not bad. We think that Windows 10 is also not bad.
Really??? ;-)
Yes, we do. But we cannot speak for them. :)
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#24 Post by n2ri » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:51 pm

maybe MS never used a good old IBM TP like the Txxx, Wxxx series that keep up way better than most desltops made the last decade even for lots of gamers. anything core duo 2g and up is fine for most. heck I still use a Rugby 2 flip phone daily as I dont see the need for a so called "Smart phone" the size of a tablet hanging on my clothes ripping seams hehe. I use a phone to talk to others far off. all other apps work and seen better on My laptop. also hate pics taken on phones. use a real camera.

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#25 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:59 pm

n2ri wrote:maybe MS never used a good old IBM TP like the Txxx, Wxxx series that keep up way better than most desltops made the last decade even for lots of gamers. anything core duo 2g and up is fine for most. heck I still use a Rugby 2 flip phone daily as I dont see the need for a so called "Smart phone" the size of a tablet hanging on my clothes ripping seams hehe. I use a phone to talk to others far off. all other apps work and seen better on My laptop. also hate pics taken on phones. use a real camera.
Maybe MS doesnt care, because if they did, we wouldnt be in this mess right now.
Welcome to the jungle, we have FrankenPads
If you want it you're going to bleed, but that is the price to pay
And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
You can see the blinky lights, but you won't get them for free.

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#26 Post by Andrew479 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:45 am

Why should the end of support for W7 discourage anyone from using it on classic Thinkpads even after 2020?

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#27 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:16 am

Andrew479 wrote:Why should the end of support for W7 discourage anyone from using it on classic Thinkpads even after 2020?
I like to use XP from time to time even tho its out of support. Still a great operating system. I doubt its support is going anywhere. Most programs still support it.
Welcome to the jungle, we have FrankenPads
If you want it you're going to bleed, but that is the price to pay
And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
You can see the blinky lights, but you won't get them for free.

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#28 Post by dr_st » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:31 am

Andrew479 wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:45 am
Why should the end of support for W7 discourage anyone from using it on classic Thinkpads even after 2020?
Some people subscribe to the notion that one day after Microsoft officially announces that it will no longer release patches for a system, it will automatically be attacked by 100 different types of malware and will be completely compromised without any recourse.
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Past: Z61t 9440-A23, T60 2623-D3U, X32 2884-M5U

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#29 Post by w0qj » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:03 am

@RealBlackStuff, wow, many thanks, will look into this!
(REALLY active forums here, away for just 24 hours, so many replies!)

<Our official comment on Linux in below URL link, but that is off-topic so will discuss in Linux Forum instead!>
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 32#p803632

- - - - - - - - - -
RealBlackStuff wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:02 am
@w0qj:
Read the above Linux link I gave.
Alternatives:
- https://itsfoss.com/windows-like-linux-distributions/
- https://www.lifewire.com/best-windows-l ... es-2201177
- http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/best-linux ... ndows-mac/
And plenty more info if you search the web...
Last edited by w0qj on Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Daily Driver: X1 Carbon 4th Gen (X1C4): i7-6600U 2.6GHz; 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz; 1TB PCIe-NVMe SSD; 14" WQHD 2560x1440; LTE EM7455 Mobile Broadband; Win7 Pro 64bit
Current Thinkpads: X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

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Re: And another reason to avoid Micro$haft's W10

#30 Post by Andrew479 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:05 am

dr_st wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:31 am
Andrew479 wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:45 am
Why should the end of support for W7 discourage anyone from using it on classic Thinkpads even after 2020?
Some people subscribe to the notion that one day after Microsoft officially announces that it will no longer release patches for a system, it will automatically be attacked by 100 different types of malware and will be completely compromised without any recourse.
Good thing I unsubbed many years ago :lol:

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