Synaptics Trackpoint stops responding on E15

[asiniv]

Hello,

I have a E15 with Windows 10 Pro (fully updated) and I use Photoshop and Lightroom extensively.
Personally I don't like the Trackpad so it's disabled and I use only the Trackpoint (and the 3 keys below it).

Occasionally when I use Lightroom the Trackpoint suddenly freezes and stops responding.
I have no idea what is causing it; though I can still use the keyboard and even enable the Trackpad, which works.
Though in order to get the Trackpoint to work again I need to restart the laptop.

I'd appreciate any advice on this issue as it's really annoying when it suddenly happens.

Thanks in advance!

[asiniv]

Hi again,
Even after removing the drivers and making sure I install the latest ones, it still freezes sometimes while using lightroom.

I'd really appreciate some advice on the matter.

Thanks in advance!

[dr_st]

I recall having such issues on my Thinkpad 25 with Win10 Pro (not related to Lightroom, as I don't use it), but had weird behaviors when I go between docked and undocked, with external mouse or not, and either suspending or hibernating and resuming.

I never got down to the root cause, and tried random drivers. Now with Synaptics driver 19.3.4.226, I haven't had the issue for quite some time.

[asiniv]

Hmmm...
I'll compare my drivers version (mine is updated to the latest) and try...

Thanks!

[asiniv]

Hi dr_st

So I completely deleted the driver for a number of times, though it seems to reinstall the latest driver version 19.5.19.75 by itself.
(I also had an external mouse connected to try and avoid that but it still did it anyway).

If I try to install the latest drivers from lenovo support - n2ist11w.exe - it says that latest drivers are installed and installation does not continue.
So I ddl your recommended version 19.3.4.226 - n1mgx37w.exe and tried installing that - this time it continued with the installation successfully.
However upon restart when I check the synaptics pointing device driver version it still says 19.5.9.75

So I'm a little confused - did I remove and install the driver correctly and successfully?

Please advise when possible, thanks in advance!

[dr_st]

Which method did you use to delete the driver?

It is possible that the newer driver 19.5.9.75 is inbox (part of the OS), so it cannot fully be uninstalled.

[asiniv]

This is a print screen of how I deleted the drivers:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SmD0di ... sp=sharing

This is a print screen of the corresponding events more or less:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h18kJH ... sp=sharing

Did I perform this correctly?
Anything else that needs to be checked or can be verified?

[dr_st]

It looks correct and doesn't look like it's an inbox driver.

A few things you can try:

* delete, refresh, then delete several times (sometimes multiple copies of the same driver can exist)
* use rollback driver instead
* use 'update driver' with 'browse my computer' then 'let me pick' to install a specific driver version you want (even if it's older than the one currently installed).

[asiniv]

Gr8.

Thanks for the tips.
One small request:
When searching for the specific driver version you suggested, I could only find the exe installation files from lenovo.
Perhaps are you able to send me or refer me to the specific inf files?

Thanks in advance.

[dr_st]

When you run the .exe from Lenovo, it first unpacks the driver somewhere (default location is probably C:\DRIVERS\WIN\UNAV). By pointing the device manager to that folder it should pick up the INF file.

[asiniv]

Great.
I'll perform some additional work in the next few days and see if it happens after the current delete and installation.
If this persists I'll switch again as per your last direction.

Thanks!

[makeMyComputerWorkPls]

I'm having the same problem. The trackpoint does not move the cursor. It was working fine and suddenly just stopped working. I have checked the BIOS and the trackpoint is enabled there. The latest trackpoint driver is installed. I rolled back the driver to a previous version and when I rebooted, the trackpoint worked for a few seconds and then stopped again. When I open the Synaptics Trackpoint control panel, the toggle to turn the trackpoint on/off shows that it is disabled AND the toggle itself is grayed-out/disabled, so I can't turn it on.

[makeMyComputerWorkPls]

I rolled back the version of the trackpoint device driver and when I re-boot, the trackpoint works BUT for only a few minutes. I can move the cursor, etc. but 5 minutes later it freezes. Have repeated re-boots with same result. Any help for this problem from anyone?

[asiniv]

Hi dr_st,
So after it happened again I thought I'd try all the steps that you mentioned one by one:

I removed all the mice and other pointing devices drivers (making sure to check delete drivers), to the point where no pointing device worked, including an external USB mouse.
After restart windows reverts to native drivers, so the external mouse works. Then I tried installing the .226 version by choosing the 'have disc option' you mentioned.
It did complete the installation but then I had a new problem: the Track-point was disabled and greyed out (see image link below), as you may see it also created a mess in the installed devices.
So I removed everything again, which caused a side-effect (that might have occurred in the previous step, I'm not sure):
The Conexant audio services could not be found, since it relies on the Synaptics audio drivers.
From this, at least I think I can infer that I did delete all the drivers, due to the audio problem that was appeared.
After a restart I also noticed that by default windows reverts to the latest Synaptics driver 19.5.19.75 - as if it cannot be completely removed and is natively installed in the system.
In any case, frustrated that I might be messing with it too much, I manually installed again the latest drivers for both Synaptics audio and pointing device.

Now I'm back with latest drivers - audio is working and Trackpoint is working.

HOWEVER I fear that the original problem will surface again, because all in all I'm not sure if I actually changed anything to begin with...

I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter...

Thanks in advance!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RNNRvG ... sp=sharing

[makeMyComputerWorkPls]

I had a Lenovo tech remote into my computer. He removed all the mice and other pointing devices - not the drivers per se, but the devices themselves in Device Manager. Then he rebooted and the mice/pointing devices were automatically added back along with their drivers. The trackpoint device driver is currently 19.5.19.75. I don't know how the device drivers were automatically installed on reboot. The trackpoint still does not work.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, at one point I was able to roll back the trackpoint device driver to the previous version. I rebooted and the track point worked - for about 5 minutes - then it froze again, did not work to move the cursor. I replicated this result more than once. Today, I wanted to again try uninstalling and re-installing the Synaptics device and installing a different previous driver. So, I removed the Synaptics device in Device Manager and re-booted and now the Synaptics device does NOT re-appear in Device Manager - it did not get automatically detected and installed.

I also found a Synaptics setup program in drivers/win/unav - when I look at the file properties it says it's "Synaptics Pointing Device Driver" dated 25 Jul 2014 - when I run it, it fails with the error "Synaptics device not found"!

Note that I also have a wireless external mouse and keyboard, if that is meaningful to the problem.

Lenovo is saying I should replace the physical keyboard which includes the trackpoint!

[dr_st]

Lenovo is saying I should replace the physical keyboard which includes the trackpoint!

It may in fact be the solution.

[asiniv]

Hi again,

So it still happens occasionally -
mainly while working in Lightroom (an external HDD which my work is performed on is connected, though I'm not sure if it's relevant).
Perhaps it is somehow related, as lightroom creates at times a heavy workload on the system...
It might still happen on other occasions (as mentioned above), but this seems to be rarer.
I can still continue work, by using the Touchpad or external mouse, but a restart is required to 'release it'.

It is annoying, and I really don't know how to solve this.

I'd really appreciate any further advice on the matter...

Thx in advance!

[asiniv]

Hi again,
So as noted in my last post.
This still might happen occasionally.
Perhaps it does have something to do with the fact that the source when processing images is an external HDD,
Or maybe when the work load is high on the CPU it increases susceptibility for something like this?
I'm really not sure...
Anyone?

[RealBlackStuff]

Swap that external HDD out for an SSD.

[asiniv]

Can this be related?
Any information or known issues for a similar setup?
I've had an instance though where it happened while just browsing with firefox, but I can not remember what I was doing beforehand (whether I edit some images as per the above) or if the HDD was connected or not...

[And the internal drive is SSD, but only 256gb, so I needed an external addon (budget is limited)]

[RealBlackStuff]

After non-use for a certain time, HDDs can go to sleep.
Waking up takes time, literally!
SSDs don't have this problem

[asiniv]

Hmmm... Not sure if it's 'sleeping related'.
You can see in the discussion in this thread that when it happens it's usually while working on images located in the external HDD...

[dr_st]

I don't think it's related to any of this.

There is a chance your trackpoint is simply faulty...

[asiniv]

How do I test that?

I mean I use it 100% of the time (navpad is disabled);
And I only experience this occasionally in this specific scenario. Otherwise on casual work it is in order.
So from this I think I can infer that mechanically it is solid, and perhaps under certain conditions there's a software issue...

[dr_st]

From your posts I don't see a specific scenario, though. You said it usually happens in Lightroom, but doesn't happen every time. And that sometimes (rarely) it may happen in other flows as well.

So it is hard to see a strong software component responsibility here.

An idea I just had: perhaps while working in Lightroom, you're using the trackpoint more intensively, compared to other workflows? And perhaps that is why it is more likely to trigger whatever fault there is at the trackpoint?

Another idea - when the trackpoint stops working suddenly - could you check the system event log (eventvwr.msc) for any error events by the Synaptics driver?

[asiniv]

From your posts I don't see a specific scenario, though. You said it usually happens in Lightroom, but doesn't happen every time. And that sometimes (rarely) it may happen in other flows as well.

By scenario I meant the instances more or less it happens on - no specific step to reproduce it on purpuse.

So it is hard to see a strong software component responsibility here.

An idea I just had: perhaps while working in Lightroom, you're using the trackpoint more intensively, compared to other workflows? And perhaps that is why it is more likely to trigger whatever fault there is at the trackpoint?

I'm not sure about that, as I use the trackpoint all the time, I would expect that if there was a mechanical fault I would have experienced it on a regular basis...

Another idea - when the trackpoint stops working suddenly - could you check the system event log (eventvwr.msc) for any error events by the Synaptics driver?

Haven't thought about that, when this happens again I'll make sure to check that
(now just need to see it again, it's sporadic so cannot know in advance when it happens).

I'll update here as needed after I have some results (might take some time).
Thanks for that tip!

[asiniv]

Hi,

so it happened again, just when working in lightroom.
I could not locate anything related in the event viewer.
Though I'm not entirely sure I'm looking at it correctly.
I've exported all the events (from application and system) just after it happened and then after a restart.

Might I please ask you to take a look and tell me if you see something related to my issue?

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... p=sharing

Thanks in advance!

[dr_st]

Hm... Like you I couldn't find anything related. There are some events from SynTpEnhService, but they appear to be informational (not errors), and from earlier times. Peculiar...

[asiniv]

I see,
So this issue is very peculiar.
What can I do to isolate it?
Can it have something to do with lightroom itself in some way and the fact that I'm working in an external hdd?
What can I do about this?
Now I'm not about to do factory reset because of this specific problem, but it quite frustrating after all I tried with the drivers as explained above...

Hey thanks for looking, and I'd appreciate any advice.

[dr_st]

What can I do to isolate it?
Can it have something to do with lightroom itself in some way and the fact that I'm working in an external hdd?
What can I do about this?

Well, you can try to isolate it, as you said.
(1) try not to work in Lightroom for a couple of days
(2) try to not work on an external HDD for a while

Of course, actually trying this may be hard if you are using it regularly for your work.