Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

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nitrocaster
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#31 Post by nitrocaster » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:29 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:28 pm
can we just get an X25?

12" 3:2
X220 Keyboard
QC ULV Kaby Lake
Intergrated graphics
Upgradeable RAM
Non-upgradeable is fine too, if it's maxed out. There's no point of having memory slots in a compact and expensive machine. You can use that space for more m.2 slots, lithium cells or 2.5" bay.
For those who interested in buying X220/X230 FHD kit: Read this before sending me a PM!
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#32 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:49 pm

If the X301 can cram a DVD-drive, 13.3" LCD, Upgradable RAM, Upgradable HDD, Upgradable wifi-card/WWAN, a power hungry C2D, 3 lithium cells in 18mm tall package andSTILL get 4 hours of battery life, well I don't think getting upgradable RAM will be that big of a deal. Remember, it could end up like the X1C first gen. I bet it could support 16GB, but it wasn't an option and it isn't upgradable. If it came out with a max of 16, but down the road 32 could be come a possibility when prices come down.
Welcome to the jungle, we have FrankenPads
If you want it you're going to bleed, but that is the price to pay
And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
You can see the blinky lights, but you won't get them for free.

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#33 Post by axur-delmeria » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:32 pm

nitrocaster wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:29 pm
here's no point of having memory slots in a compact and expensive machine.
I disagree. What do you do with that compact and expensive machine when the RAM fails?
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#34 Post by Summilux » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:40 pm

Yeah. Having the CPU soldered, okay. But the RAM and SSD should be user-replaceable.
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#35 Post by w0qj » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:22 am

Agree, RAM should be user upgradable. This is the single *BEST* way to future-proof your computer for the future 5+ years down the road, especially when RAM prices come down as Thinkpad4by3 said.
(OK, user replacable SSD/HDD also very useful too).

For example:
We bought X1 Carbon 3rd Generation (X1C3) in 2015, and it maxed out with 8 GB RAM (soldered, which user cannot replace) which we bought.

In 2016, for the same user we had to replace this X1C3 (8 GB RAM) with a new X1C4 (4th Generation X1),
specifically to get that maximum 16 GB RAM (also soldered, which user cannot replace) which we need to speed up our daily work.

Now, if X1 Carbon 3rd Generation had user-replaceable RAM, we would not have bought X1 Carbon Generation for the same user!!
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:49 pm
If the X301 can cram a DVD-drive, 13.3" LCD, Upgradable RAM, Upgradable HDD, Upgradable wifi-card/WWAN, a power hungry C2D, 3 lithium cells in 18mm tall package andSTILL get 4 hours of battery life, well I don't think getting upgradable RAM will be that big of a deal. Remember, it could end up like the X1C first gen. I bet it could support 16GB, but it wasn't an option and it isn't upgradable. If it came out with a max of 16, but down the road 32 could be come a possibility when prices come down.
Daily Driver: X1 Carbon 4th Gen (X1C4): i7-6600U 2.6GHz; 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz; 1TB PCIe-NVMe SSD; 14" WQHD 2560x1440; LTE EM7455 Mobile Broadband; Win7 Pro 64bit
Current Thinkpads: X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#36 Post by nitrocaster » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:13 am

axur-delmeria wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:32 pm
I disagree. What do you do with that compact and expensive machine when the RAM fails?
How often do you experience RAM failures? CPU can fail too. Very rarely, just like RAM, but it can. Why not put CPU in the socket then?
For those who interested in buying X220/X230 FHD kit: Read this before sending me a PM!
X230: i7-3520M | 16GB RAM | 512GB M.2 Micron M600 | LG LP125WF2-SPB4 FHD IPS | 9c Li-Ion | Win8.1 Pro 64

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#37 Post by nitrocaster » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:17 am

w0qj wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:22 am
For example:
We bought X1 Carbon 3rd Generation (X1C3) in 2015, and it maxed out with 8 GB RAM (soldered, which user cannot replace) which we bought.
8GB is not 'maxed out'. 3rd gen Intel supports up to 32GB of memory. What I siggest is to put maximum amount of memory from the very beginning so that you won't ever need to upgrade it. 2 SO-DIMM slots consume a lot of space and in 2017 we need that space for other things.
For those who interested in buying X220/X230 FHD kit: Read this before sending me a PM!
X230: i7-3520M | 16GB RAM | 512GB M.2 Micron M600 | LG LP125WF2-SPB4 FHD IPS | 9c Li-Ion | Win8.1 Pro 64

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#38 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:53 am

^ It doesn't solve the problem of "what to do when the RAM goes bad"? I've had to change RAM sticks twice in one of my Thinkpads.
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#39 Post by nitrocaster » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:20 am

How do you solve the problem of "what to do when the CPU goes bad"?
axur-delmeria wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:53 am
I've had to change RAM sticks twice in one of my Thinkpads.
That doesn't mean anything. I've had to change motherboard twice because of PCH failure. Does that mean we should put PCH in socket? And what about USB ports? They can break much easier. Does that mean we should put every external port on its own sub-board that is easy to replace?
And what about the soldered CPU? You can't upgrade the CPU, right? See, there are so many similar cases with other parts. They are not user replaceable because there are good reasons for that. What makes RAM so special that you want it to be replaceable so much?
For those who interested in buying X220/X230 FHD kit: Read this before sending me a PM!
X230: i7-3520M | 16GB RAM | 512GB M.2 Micron M600 | LG LP125WF2-SPB4 FHD IPS | 9c Li-Ion | Win8.1 Pro 64

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#40 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:51 am

nitrocaster wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:13 am
axur-delmeria wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:32 pm
I disagree. What do you do with that compact and expensive machine when the RAM fails?
How often do you experience RAM failures? CPU can fail too. Very rarely, just like RAM, but it can. Why not put CPU in the socket then?
How many times have I had a CPU fail? Once, on a T42p that got hit right in the fan grill with soda. How many times have a had RAM die, well..... why not take a little trip to my graveyard of RAM.
Welcome to the jungle, we have FrankenPads
If you want it you're going to bleed, but that is the price to pay
And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
You can see the blinky lights, but you won't get them for free.

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#41 Post by w0qj » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:53 am

Agree, that's exactly our point, that soldered RAM is shooting yourself in the foot, and is antithesis to future-proofing your laptop!
Because newer higher capacity RAM modules become available over time, so one by definition cannot "max out" one's RAM at the point of manufacturing.
Moreover, upgrading to maximum RAM 3-5 years down the road is a cheaper and more cost effective method.
[Caveat: the UEFI/BIOS must allow support for additional RAM. Some manufacturers "hard code" maximum RAM the motherboard can support.]

Hence soldered RAM is shooting yourself in the foot, and is antithesis to future-proofing your laptop!
nitrocaster wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:17 am
w0qj wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:22 am
For example:
We bought X1 Carbon 3rd Generation (X1C3) in 2015, and it maxed out with 8 GB RAM (soldered, which user cannot replace) which we bought.
8GB is not 'maxed out'. 3rd gen Intel supports up to 32GB of memory. What I siggest is to put maximum amount of memory from the very beginning so that you won't ever need to upgrade it. 2 SO-DIMM slots consume a lot of space and in 2017 we need that space for other things.
Last edited by w0qj on Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#42 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:55 am

I remember when my T430s got maxed out to 16GB of RAM in 2012. That kit cost ALOT of money in 2012. Now, that kit cost less than 100$
Welcome to the jungle, we have FrankenPads
If you want it you're going to bleed, but that is the price to pay
And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
You can see the blinky lights, but you won't get them for free.

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#43 Post by nitrocaster » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:44 am

w0qj wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:53 am
Agree, that's exactly our point, that soldered RAM is shooting yourself in the foot, and is antithesis to future-proofing your laptop!
Because newer higher capacity RAM modules become available over time, so one by definition cannot "max out" one's RAM at the point of manufacturing.
It does not work that way. Maximum size of memory is CPU limitation. Even if the CPU is socketed, the motherboard still can not be made to support further generations. For example, you can't put 16GB modules in X230, no matter they are available or not.
For those who interested in buying X220/X230 FHD kit: Read this before sending me a PM!
X230: i7-3520M | 16GB RAM | 512GB M.2 Micron M600 | LG LP125WF2-SPB4 FHD IPS | 9c Li-Ion | Win8.1 Pro 64

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#44 Post by nitrocaster » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:50 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:55 am
I remember when my T430s got maxed out to 16GB of RAM in 2012. That kit cost ALOT of money in 2012. Now, that kit cost less than 100$
That cost probably $250, while the machine itself had a price starting at $900 or something like that. ThinkPads never were cheap and there's no way they will be cheap. That being said, saving $150 to upgrade 5-6 years old laptop is not a valid argument here.
For those who interested in buying X220/X230 FHD kit: Read this before sending me a PM!
X230: i7-3520M | 16GB RAM | 512GB M.2 Micron M600 | LG LP125WF2-SPB4 FHD IPS | 9c Li-Ion | Win8.1 Pro 64

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#45 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:01 am

I never said I was upgrading it. My point was that RAM has gotten significantly cheaper. The C2D DDR2 Thinkpads were never available with 8gb because it was just plainly too expensive. Now you can upgrade it for 80$.

RAM prices go down. I dont want to spend money for 32gb when I dont need it now and it will be cheap in 5 years when I DO NEED it.
Welcome to the jungle, we have FrankenPads
If you want it you're going to bleed, but that is the price to pay
And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
You can see the blinky lights, but you won't get them for free.

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#46 Post by w0qj » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:49 am

Amen !
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:01 am
...RAM prices go down. I dont want to spend money for 32gb when I dont need it now and it will be cheap in 5 years when I DO NEED it.
Daily Driver: X1 Carbon 4th Gen (X1C4): i7-6600U 2.6GHz; 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz; 1TB PCIe-NVMe SSD; 14" WQHD 2560x1440; LTE EM7455 Mobile Broadband; Win7 Pro 64bit
Current Thinkpads: X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !


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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#48 Post by Lomax » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:54 pm

IdealPad:
  1. 7-row "traditional" keyboard
  2. TrackPoint only palmrest
  3. 13" 4:3 or 5:4 screen
  4. Low-voltage CPU
  5. Magnesium composite chassis
  6. Rubberised exterior
  7. ThinkLight
  8. No gimmicks
  9. $1,500 price tag
Basically, a 600 series ThinkPad with a 15W Kaby Lake i7 and SXGA/SXGA+ screen. Sold!
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#49 Post by Dragunov » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:56 pm

nitrocaster wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:53 am
https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comme ... ad_design/
leadorg wrote:When i first pitched the idea for the ThinkPad Retro, i told David that we wanted Lenovo to design the perfect machine for us. He told me that it will cost about 2 to 3 million USD to design a ThinkPad from scratch, produce all the necessary plastic mouldings and test it for the necessary CE compliances.

Maybe instead of letting Lenovo design the ideal retro thinkpad, we should just pay for the design, and let Lenovo produce it for us. We keep the same chassis design for subsequent generation of CPU upgrades, etc.

David said he could even design the ThinkPad with butterfly keyboard.
I'd be happy just getting the T420 keyboard, and reading light back. :(

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#50 Post by gofishus » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:50 pm

I think I would just go for the X61 with a Full HD IPS panel, modern ports (VGA can be kept but remove modem, PC card and firewire for HDMI and Thunderbolt 3), and upgraded internals (8th gen CPU, 16GB RAM, SSD).

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#51 Post by Lomax » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:52 pm

gofishus wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:50 pm
I think I would just go for the X61 with a Full HD IPS panel, modern ports (VGA can be kept but remove modem, PC card and firewire for HDMI and Thunderbolt 3), and upgraded internals (8th gen CPU, 16GB RAM, SSD).
Yeah, the X60/61 is about the perfect form factor for a laptop; I still use my X61s almost daily (with Windows 7) and its 4:3 screen always feels like a revelation, despite only being an XGA panel. That said, the 600/E/X is only a marginally larger (13.3" screen, 30x24x4cm, 2.2kg) yet manages to squeeze in an optical drive. Couldn't care less about the optical drive personally, but the slightly larger screen is great, I'd say it sits right at the "sweet spot" between portability and readability (1400x1050 on a 12.1" screen is too high IMO). The build quality of the 600-series is also the highest of any ThinkPad I've owned (see sig for list), with even the palmrest made from magnesium composite - and the keyboard is just incredible. Someone posted a 2017 "retrospective" review of the 600X here: https://thinkpads.com/146/thinkpad-600x ... ive-review

Edit: Thinking about it, a modern motherboard designed to fit in the 600 chassis, and a replacement 1400x1050 screen, would be all that's needed to create the perfect "retro" ThinkPad. Can't be done you say? Think again: http://neo900.org
600E - 600X - 770X - X31 - X32 - T43p (SATA) - T60p - X200t - X61s - X200s - X201s (PVA) - Z Pro 9228

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#52 Post by theterminator93 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:13 pm

nitrocaster wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:13 am
axur-delmeria wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:32 pm
I disagree. What do you do with that compact and expensive machine when the RAM fails?
How often do you experience RAM failures? CPU can fail too. Very rarely, just like RAM, but it can. Why not put CPU in the socket then?
I see RAM failures more or less monthly. I have only ever seen one CPU failure.

Granted, the RAM I see dying is usually cheap junk, and is several years old... but all the same, much more common than CPU failure.
Daily: T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T420 i7-2640M·NVS 4200m·IPS FHD | X220 i7-2640M | T601F T9900·NVS 140M·IPS UXGA
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#53 Post by axur-delmeria » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:32 am

theterminator93 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:13 pm
Granted, the RAM I see dying is usually cheap junk, and is several years old... but all the same, much more common than CPU failure.
There's a malfunctioning Samsung 8GB DDR3L-1600 on my desk, which used to be in a friend's T440. Date code is 1415 (15th week of 2014). It's a stark reminder of how "rare" RAM failure is supposed to be, at least, according to nitrocaster.
Daily driver: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M

In reserve: X61 T7500, X60 T2300
In pieces: X60s CS U1300 [board only], two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#54 Post by nitrocaster » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:32 pm

Many motherboard with dead CPUs and PCHs are being thrown in the garbage, but that does not mean we must have socketed CPUs and PCHs. The fact that you have a dead RAM stick means that RAM can die. I don't think you know what exactly happened to it causing the failure, so you can't say RAM fails so often that we need it to be replaceable.
For those who interested in buying X220/X230 FHD kit: Read this before sending me a PM!
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#55 Post by axur-delmeria » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:13 am

nitrocaster wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:32 pm
Many motherboard with dead CPUs and PCHs are being thrown in the garbage, but that does not mean we must have socketed CPUs and PCHs. The fact that you have a dead RAM stick means that RAM can die. I don't think you know what exactly happened to it causing the failure, so you can't say RAM fails so often that we need it to be replaceable.
So, you're going to throw away an otherwise working system board just because the RAM failed, adding to e-waste like tablets and smartphones?
Daily driver: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M

In reserve: X61 T7500, X60 T2300
In pieces: X60s CS U1300 [board only], two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#56 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:40 am

Lomax wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:52 pm
gofishus wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:50 pm
I think I would just go for the X61 with a Full HD IPS panel, modern ports (VGA can be kept but remove modem, PC card and firewire for HDMI and Thunderbolt 3), and upgraded internals (8th gen CPU, 16GB RAM, SSD).
Yeah, the X60/61 is about the perfect form factor for a laptop; I still use my X61s almost daily (with Windows 7) and its 4:3 screen always feels like a revelation, despite only being an XGA panel. That said, the 600/E/X is only a marginally larger (13.3" screen, 30x24x4cm, 2.2kg) yet manages to squeeze in an optical drive. Couldn't care less about the optical drive personally, but the slightly larger screen is great, I'd say it sits right at the "sweet spot" between portability and readability (1400x1050 on a 12.1" screen is too high IMO). The build quality of the 600-series is also the highest of any ThinkPad I've owned (see sig for list), with even the palmrest made from magnesium composite - and the keyboard is just incredible. Someone posted a 2017 "retrospective" review of the 600X here: https://thinkpads.com/146/thinkpad-600x ... ive-review

Edit: Thinking about it, a modern motherboard designed to fit in the 600 chassis, and a replacement 1400x1050 screen, would be all that's needed to create the perfect "retro" ThinkPad. Can't be done you say? Think again: http://neo900.org
I don't like the X61s. I despise the cramped keyboard though it has a great form factor and screen layout. An X301 with 1920x1200 LCD IPS & upgraded internals would be awesome, espiecially with the X301's superior keyboard that is nearly as springy as the 600x one.
Welcome to the jungle, we have FrankenPads
If you want it you're going to bleed, but that is the price to pay
And you're a very rare mobo, very hard to get
You can see the blinky lights, but you won't get them for free.

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#57 Post by theterminator93 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:45 am

nitrocaster wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:32 pm
you can't say RAM fails so often that we need it to be replaceable.

I can, and I certainly do. :)

Now you on the other hand, are free to do as you please, as all are entitled to their own opinions. Allow me the same courtesy, please.
Daily: T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T420 i7-2640M·NVS 4200m·IPS FHD | X220 i7-2640M | T601F T9900·NVS 140M·IPS UXGA
Wife's: T61p T9500·2010 FX570m·WUXGA | X220T i7-2640M
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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#58 Post by FryPpy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:10 pm

Summilux wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:42 pm
How about ThingPast, because, duh, now that's really retro 8)
Or may be ThinkPast like a DreamPast... Dream about decades of ThinkPad glory ;)

Why? Because it will not be built;( 10 great ThinkPadders that involved in this forum topic can't make single decision - what is the classic ThinkPad. TrackWrite (Butterfly) or classic 7 row. Bulky 600 or slim ultrabook (X301-like) with soldered RAM. 4:3 or 3:2, 12" or 13" screen. Thinkpads are so different so we are thinking different. There is no single classic Thinkpad for all of us. Crowdfunding is a good idea, but it is near impossible (IMHO) to make whole serie of classic thinkpads from 12" ultraportables to 15" workstations. Configurability can help crowdfunded Thinkpad gaine more bakers. But it assumes interchangable parts (RAM, storage, screen, palmrest, ultrabay, docking solutions keyboard?). That makes thinkpad heavier and more expensive.

So any concept can acquire only half of die hard ThinkPad fans and this is not good.

On the other hand ThinkPad 25 have only single configuration. But this design unify all of us, as we all thing that it is not 100% Classic ThinkPad.

As for me Classic is the T60 with small Esc and Del keys (because this is my first and beloved ThinkPad). It can have cutoff corner (like 30 series) or gray keys from 40 series or not swipe fingerprint reader from 440 series or have nothing of this. I don't like soldered RAM and CPU (but what is the alternative - barebones with desktop CPUs;) I can eat backlight keyboard without ThinkLight (but not island style), touchpad (but trackpoint must be), 16:10 (but not 16:9), even i can eat black color from T440 ;) I like big screen and the size and weight is not a problem for me at all.

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#59 Post by amardeep » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:04 pm

A 'real' Thinkpad Classic that all can agree on ...

• the 'proper' keyboard.
• a really good screen.
• a chassis that doesn't have acres of space around the screen.

I think that's the minimum, and although there'd be grumbling about other features (status lights, aspect ratio etc etc), this is the core requirement. I suppose the other big bone of contention would be screen size. Well ... 14". Suck it up, it'll be the most popular / a compromise most can live with !

There you go, I've done it :-)
Last edited by amardeep on Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Time to crowdfund the real ThinkPad: let's see how badly we want it

#60 Post by TPFanatic » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:24 pm

RAM is prone enough to failure that it needs to be replaceable / upgradable. No point in socketing the CPU, it can't be upgraded out of its generation and is only used to make money.
Daily driver: lenovo T500 P9700, WUXGA, 8GB
Ultraportable: IBM lenovo X60s
Home theater: lenovo T420

Enable advanced features on older Synaptics touchpads with the registry: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=122612

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