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Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

T25-Retro specific matters only
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Goran
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Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#1 Post by Goran » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:58 pm

Hi,

has anyone used the TP25 with this dock? I cannot find it on the list of supported models.

Thanks,
Goran

w0qj
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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#2 Post by w0qj » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:57 pm

[Edit to Forum Moderators, I've accidentally edited the original posting, and cannot revert back to the original posting 10 hours earlier!!]
w0qj wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:57 pm
...ThinkPad compatibly matrix may be useful (Just click on ThinkPad link and download the massive XLS file):
http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/accs-guide
ThinkPad Thunderbolt  3 Dock
40AC0135EU

ThinkPad Hybrid USB-C with USB-A Dock
40AF0135EU

ThinkPad USB-C  Dock
40A90090EU

~There are other older workstation docks supported by ThinkPad 25 (USB Ultradock and Pro-Dock), but we don't think you would be considering these ones as too old...
Last edited by w0qj on Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Daily Driver: X1 Extreme 1st Gen (X1E1): i7 | 16GB | 1TB | IPS
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RealBlackStuff
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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#3 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:21 pm

The Lenovo Dockfinder comes up with this:
For T25 20K7 models it suggests either ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Dock or ThinkPad USB-C Dock.
For T25 20K8 models it is not able to suggest anything.
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Goran
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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#4 Post by Goran » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:08 am

w0qj wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:57 pm
DO NOT get the ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Workstation Dock (230W) 40AN0230xx for your ThinkPad 25; it is physically incompatible!
This ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Workstation Dock (230W) for ThinkPad P1, P52, P72, and X1 Extreme (confirmed compatible with 2018 workstation models, and probably with 2019 workstation models as well).
I'm not talking about the workstation dock but the regular gen 2:

https://support.lenovo.com/be/en/solutions/pd500265

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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#5 Post by w0qj » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:36 am

1. The model you are referring to is:
ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Dock Gen 2, with the 135W AC adapter
40AN0135EU

2. Unfortunately your ThinkPad T25 will not support this Thunderbolt 3 Dock Gen 2, with the 135W AC adapter (40AN0135EU), because:
a) Your below webpage did not list T25 as a supported model (ie: would not support T25), and
b) The Product Compatibility Matrix *XLS (from above posting by yours truly) also confirmed that T25 does not support this model.
Goran wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:08 am
I'm not talking about the workstation dock but the regular gen 2:

https://support.lenovo.com/be/en/solutions/pd500265
Daily Driver: X1 Extreme 1st Gen (X1E1): i7 | 16GB | 1TB | IPS
Current Thinkpads: X1E1 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
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dr_st
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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#6 Post by dr_st » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:37 am

This is really confusing, as it's the same dock (40AN), with just different power supply ratings (0230, 0170 or 0135 watt). However, Lenovo markets it under a different name and claims it's compatible with different Thinkpads.

https://support.lenovo.com/il/en/solutions/pd500265 - 40AN0135** claims compatibility with X1 Yoga 2nd/3rd Gen, T570/T580 and P51s/P52s. Doesn't claim compatibility with T470/T480/TP25, but how something that supports T570 won't support the 14" variant is beyond me.

https://support.lenovo.com/il/en/solutions/pd500252 - 40AN0230**/0170** only claim compatibility with P52, P72, P1 and X1 Extreme. There is at least one testimony of someone who tried this dock on a non-workstation model (maybe even TP25), and it didn't work.

There is probably no technical reason why it won't work. Lenovo may have locked out models in drivers/firmware, and in this case - everything is possible. It remains to be seen whether update drivers/FW for the "Gen 2" dock make it possible to 'unlock' support for the additional models on the 'workstation' dock as well.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#7 Post by dr_st » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:45 am

w0qj wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:36 am
b) The Product Compatibility Matrix *XLS (from above posting by yours truly) also confirmed that T25 does not support this model.
T470 is listed in the XLS as supported, which means TP25 is supported as well, unless Lenovo implements whitelist/blacklists in their Thunderbolt docks based on machine types (which I don't believe for a second).
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

w0qj
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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#8 Post by w0qj » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:49 am

w0qj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:57 am
...ThinkPad compatibly matrix may be useful (Just click on ThinkPad link and download the massive XLS file):
http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/accs-guide
ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Dock
40AC0135EU

ThinkPad Hybrid USB-C with USB-A Dock
40AF0135EU

ThinkPad USB-C Dock
40A90090EU

~There are other older workstation docks supported by ThinkPad 25 (USB Ultradock and Pro-Dock), but we don't think you would be considering these ones as too old...
Daily Driver: X1 Extreme 1st Gen (X1E1): i7 | 16GB | 1TB | IPS
Current Thinkpads: X1E1 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

w0qj
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Location: Hong Kong

Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#9 Post by w0qj » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:03 am

Agree with you that ThinkPad 25 is basically a T470.
ie: Anything that T470 support should in theory be also be supported ThinkPad 25, and this includes the docking stations.

eg: Thunderbolt Firmware Update for Windows 10 (64-bit) - ThinkPad T470, ThinkPad 25
http://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/produ ... s/ds121681
dr_st wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:45 am
w0qj wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:36 am
b) The Product Compatibility Matrix *XLS (from above posting by yours truly) also confirmed that T25 does not support this model.
T470 is listed in the XLS as supported, which means TP25 is supported as well, unless Lenovo implements whitelist/blacklists in their Thunderbolt docks based on machine types (which I don't believe for a second).
Daily Driver: X1 Extreme 1st Gen (X1E1): i7 | 16GB | 1TB | IPS
Current Thinkpads: X1E1 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

Goran
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Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#10 Post by Goran » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:02 pm

dr_st wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:45 am
w0qj wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:36 am
b) The Product Compatibility Matrix *XLS (from above posting by yours truly) also confirmed that T25 does not support this model.
T470 is listed in the XLS as supported, which means TP25 is supported as well, unless Lenovo implements whitelist/blacklists in their Thunderbolt docks based on machine types (which I don't believe for a second).
Basically, that's (part of) my problem. I know what the compatibility matrix claims, but also that what T470 can use should be usable on the TP25. So I wanted to know if anyone used the dock in the subject with it.

(Another part is that I want/need a dock that will be compatible with another T series Thinkpad of the unknown type that will have certain drivers preinstalled, but I don't know which, but that's another story.)

w0qj
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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#11 Post by w0qj » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:36 am

Looks like the one you should get is the European version of this (ie: with the European power prongs):

ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Dock (40AC0135EU), which comes with 135W AC adapter:
www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-mo ... 40AC0135US

***This webpage explicitly states that ThinkPad 25 is supported by this docking solution.
w0qj wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:49 am
w0qj wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:57 am
...ThinkPad compatibly matrix may be useful (Just click on ThinkPad link and download the massive XLS file):
http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/accs-guide
ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Dock
40AC0135EU
Daily Driver: X1 Extreme 1st Gen (X1E1): i7 | 16GB | 1TB | IPS
Current Thinkpads: X1E1 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

Goran
Posts: 32
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Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#12 Post by Goran » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:10 pm

40AN0135EU works with TP25 and another model which is not listed under supported models. However, I had only limited time to test so far.

Also, it looks to me as if all the thunderbolt gen 2 docks are the same and that the difference is in PSU only. I could be wrong, of course.

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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#13 Post by chx1975 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:03 pm

Everything docks can be found at https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/wiki/newdocks

tl;dr: yeah it works but using a Thunderbolt dock with a T series laptop is a waste of money in almost all cases because of the Alpine Ridge LP chip. The difference between a 20 dollar USB C dock and a 200 dollar Thunderbolt dock is you can get USB 3.0 with Thunderbolt while running a 4K @ 60 Hz monitor and only USB 2.0 without. However, for the TP25 for about 40 bucks you can get a Pro dock from eBay which allows the same without any of the complexity Thunderbolt involves...

Here are some real reasons to Thunderbolt on the TP25: eGPU and 10GbE support. In other words, cherish the two external PCIe 3.0 lanes, they were missing for many generations since ExpressCard was dropped (and EC was only giving you one lane and the old ones were only 2.0 -- some workstations had one 3.0).

The USB C port is also useful for on-the-go monitors with higher res than the HDMI port allows.

It can also be used with real small GaN chargers although 4X90U45346 will convert USB C to slim tip. (Useful for me, my Galax 1060 eGPU doesn't charge my laptop, boo. When at home, I have the Pro dock charging it but on the go it's enough to haul this box of an eGPU 'round and it's mighty useful to be able to charge from the slim tip.)

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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#14 Post by dr_st » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:27 am

Great write-up, and thanks for sharing.

One comment on the DisplayLink docks. Their limitations are known, but one thing they can be great about is as a second dock for expanding to more physical screens at the same time (you can use DisplayLink for screens that mostly depend static / low-bandwidth images).

One question about the laptops that have both TBT/USB-C and a bottom-mounted mechanical dock connector (TP25/T470/T570) - can you drive two 4K (2160p) monitors at 60Hz if you use the mechanical dock and the USB-C port at the same time? I know the AR LP chip can only give you one, but I'd expect the mechanical dock pins do not route through it, but go straight to the chipset.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

chx1975
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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#15 Post by chx1975 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:34 am

I haven't tested that in a while but my memories is that the HDMI port is the one that cuts off if you connect something to the dock not the USB C port so yes that should work.

w0qj
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Re: Thunderbolt dock gen 2 (40AN0230EU)

#16 Post by w0qj » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:38 pm

Here is a very detailed matrix on different docking stations and how many external display monitors it can support (and at what resolution/frequency):

http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd029622

Hope this helps!
Daily Driver: X1 Extreme 1st Gen (X1E1): i7 | 16GB | 1TB | IPS
Current Thinkpads: X1E1 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

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