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Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

T25 Anniversary/Retro
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dr_st
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Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#1 Post by dr_st » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:11 pm

Now, having been using the Thinkpad 25 for almost 6 months, this is what I think:
  • Everything I described in the "First Impressions" thread stands.
  • The touchscreen is a more welcome addition that I would originally believe. I use it frequently to switch between applications by clicking on their windows, tabs or taskbar icons (which are large and easy to hit), sometimes to scroll, and occasionally to zoom.
  • The touchpad I don't use as much (still a trackpoint person), except for two-finger scroll. I set it up so that the scrolling direction is the same as on the screen - feels more intuitive that way. I still never experience the problem of accidentally triggering the touchpad - whatever palm detection or something they implemented, was done well.
  • Being about the same size and weight as the T430s, I find the Thinkpad 25 more pleasant to use and carry around. Its finish is much higher end than the T430s, and when using the T430s I sometimes miss the touchscreen.
Battery life with 3-cell internal + 3-cell external 61 battery (24Wh) is good (~6 hours typical, but can be up to 2 hours more or less, depending on load), but for the rare occasion where I need the extra autonomy, I got the 6-cell external 61++ (72Wh) battery. Battery life is double with this configuration, since you're going from 24+24=48 to 24+72=96 watt-hours. I haven't run the 6-cell down, yet, but the battery gauge usually reflects the expected numbers of ~12 hours on a full charge, which, again, can vary greatly depending on use.

The hinge design for these models prevents extended batteries from extending out the back of the machine, so they extend out the bottom instead, propping the laptop up. It looks weird at first, but you get used to it, and some users might even appreciate the keyboard angle and the screen sitting a bit higher. Past slim models (like X6x and X2xx series) also had cylindrical batteries that protrude from the bottom, but not as much as these ones. The battery, naturally, has its own rubber feet for the laptop to stand on.

With the slim battery 61, my preferred grip carrying the Thinkpad 25 under my shoulder was to hold it across the back, with the thumb against the LCD lid, and four fingers against the bottom, which fit well with the angled base. This is not convenient with the extended battery 61++, so I carry it flipped with four fingers holding the lid, and the thumb resting on the battery curve. It is also possible to use the extended battery as a handle, but I wouldn't advise it, as it would put the entire weight of the laptop on the battery contact points.

I weighed the 3-cell at 132 grams, and the 6-cell at 332 grams - 3 times the capacity at 2.5 times the weight. This brings the total weight of the Thinkpad 25 to a little less than 1.9 kilograms.

Update: I came by a 48Wh 6-cell (61+) as well as fake 3-cell (61). Link to post: viewtopic.php?p=858142#p858142

61 and 61++ batteries compared:
Image Image Image

Back, bottom, and side views of the machine with 61++ installed:
Image Image Image

Side view of the Thinkpad 25, 61 vs. 61++
Image Image Image
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
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Re: Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#2 Post by pianowizard » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:21 pm

dr_st wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:11 pm
The touchscreen is a more welcome addition that I would originally believe. I use it frequently to switch between applications by clicking on their windows, tabs or taskbar icons (which are large and easy to hit), sometimes to scroll, and occasionally to zoom...and when using the T430s I sometimes miss the touchscreen.
You may be only the second person on this forum to have found touchscreen useful on a laptop. As I have tried to explain more than a few times, although the touchscreen is usually not the best interface, in certain scenarios it does beat the trackpoint, touchpad, and external mouse. The key is to learn when to use which input method. It's foolish to think that, for instance, the trackpoint is perfect in all situations and the touchpad is always utter garbage (an attitude that's very widespread on this forum).
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Re: Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#3 Post by theterminator93 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:45 pm

Thanks for the photos and insights into the 6 cell removable battery. I had been considering getting one but haven't pulled the trigger yet; I don't use the system as much as I could, probably because I've not yet developed much of a fondness for Windows 10 yet.
T480 with T25 keyboard | T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T601F T9900·NVS 140m·LED AFFS UXGA
T420 IPS FHD | X220 IPS FHD | T61p·T61·43·42p|X220T·301·41T·24·23·22|G41|A31p·22m|i1200|TransNote
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Re: Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#4 Post by Tasurinchi » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:49 am

pianowizard wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:21 pm
You may be only the second person
Add my as the third :D

While definitely not a keyboard replacement, I find a touchscreen very useful in many situations, I normally use it a lot for scrolling, or in tight spaces light planes and trains. Also many of the web pages I normally use are optimized for touch devices so is easy for me to navigate them with the touchscreen instead of the trackpoint/touchpad.
IBM Convertible 5140/L40SX/220/240/240X/2*340CSE/360PE/365XD/380D/380E/380XD/380Z/390/560E/560X/2*570/2*600/600E/750Cs/755C/760CD/760EL/760XD/770E
A20p/A22p/A31/i1600/G40/R50p/R61i/S30/SL510/2*T22/4*T4x/11*T6x/6*T40x/6*T5x0/3*W5x0/W700/3*X2x/4*X3x/3*X4x/5*X6x/3*X6xT/12*X2xx/4*X30x/Z60m/3*Z61x

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Re: Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#5 Post by dr_st » Sat May 15, 2021 9:16 am

Recently the external Battery 61 (3-cell, 24Wh) on my corporate Thinkpad 25 had failed, showing <1Wh full charge capacity. My employer ordered one through their vendor. Unfortunately, the vendor probably found the cheapest genuine-looking one on eBay/AliExpress, not knowing that modern fake ones often disguise themselves as genuine. I also didn't immediately realize it was a counterfeit, although in hindsight it should have been obvious.

What I did notice, is that does not fit smoothly. A close inspection showed that the battery is warped in the middle section between the two latches, and that is why it is very tight on insertion. The vendor actually had another one just like it, which was also warped. :evil: This suggests it is a common fault of these fake batteries, and another reason to stay away from them. With enough force it can be inserted, and works, but no way am I running something as sensitive as a battery when its bloated and stresses the connector.

The fake battery came in a nondescript cardboard box, with black foam padding and an anti-static bag. The second one I got had a BAT001 sticker (the first one had no such sticker). There is also a warranty sticker by the vendor. The tell-tale sign (serial on battery does not match serial in battery EC as read by Power Manager / Lenovo Vantage) is also there.

Eventually we found a different vendor, which offered either the Battery 61 (3-cell, 24Wh) for $130 or a Battery 61+ (6-cell, 48Wh) for $63. Twice the capacity for half the price? Heck, yeah! The real battery comes in a cardboard box with a Lenovo seal, a Lenovo sticker with many details, white foam padding and a regular plastic bag.

The interesting thing is comparing the Battery 61+ (6-cell, 48Wh) with the Battery 61++ (6-cell, 72Wh), which I also have. Strangely, it is exactly the same size, and almost the same weight (292 grams versus 332 grams). 67% of the capacity for 88% of the weight? Not a good tradeoff. It seems that Battery 61+ makes little sense, and that is probably why it's so much cheaper.

Pictures below are provided for reference. Note the comparison between the real Battery 61 (straight seam) and the fake one (warped seam).

Image Image Image

Image Image Image
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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Re: Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#6 Post by Tasurinchi » Mon May 17, 2021 9:13 am

I use my T25 sparely, but few weeks ago Windows reported that my 61 battery (which was the original delivered battery) was dead and needed replacement.

This surprised me a little, I have older batteries from the xx40 and xx50 generations and they still work. Luckily these are not difficult to source, I manage to but two 61+ models just in case. I wonder if there was a battery recall or if this is a generic issue with this specific battery model...
IBM Convertible 5140/L40SX/220/240/240X/2*340CSE/360PE/365XD/380D/380E/380XD/380Z/390/560E/560X/2*570/2*600/600E/750Cs/755C/760CD/760EL/760XD/770E
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Re: Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#7 Post by theterminator93 » Mon May 17, 2021 10:46 pm

How much do you use the system off AC? I wonder if our cell manufacturers are the same. Mine has experienced the typical degradation but I don't often use it away from an outlet and I still get plenty of battery when I am.

I did notice though that the original 3 cell in my FrankenPadded T480 was basically dead only a few months after I got it too (I got a 61++ to replace it not long ago - 26 hours on a single charge is nuts!!). I'll have to load it up and see which cells it has in it too.
T480 with T25 keyboard | T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T601F T9900·NVS 140m·LED AFFS UXGA
T420 IPS FHD | X220 IPS FHD | T61p·T61·43·42p|X220T·301·41T·24·23·22|G41|A31p·22m|i1200|TransNote
600|770Z|770|760XD|760EL|701C|755C

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Re: Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#8 Post by Tasurinchi » Tue May 18, 2021 2:32 am

theterminator93 wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 10:46 pm
How much do you use the system off AC?
Well, I honestly don't track this too much, :oops: From gut feeling I would say ~70% in AC. I don't remember which cells this old battery had...
IBM Convertible 5140/L40SX/220/240/240X/2*340CSE/360PE/365XD/380D/380E/380XD/380Z/390/560E/560X/2*570/2*600/600E/750Cs/755C/760CD/760EL/760XD/770E
A20p/A22p/A31/i1600/G40/R50p/R61i/S30/SL510/2*T22/4*T4x/11*T6x/6*T40x/6*T5x0/3*W5x0/W700/3*X2x/4*X3x/3*X4x/5*X6x/3*X6xT/12*X2xx/4*X30x/Z60m/3*Z61x

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Re: Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#9 Post by theterminator93 » Tue May 18, 2021 3:58 pm

Looks like the original removable 3 cell in my TP25 is an LG. The internal is from SMP. The removable LG has 65 cycles and has about 70% of its design capacity remaining. The internal SMP has 47 cycles and is at about 85%.

For the T480, the removable 3 cell that came with it is from "Celxpert", and has 64 cycles and about 40% capacity (though it dies randomly). It is branded as a Lenovo but I suspect it may be counterfeit. The internal 3 cell is an LG, as is the 9 cell I recently purchased. The internal 3 cell has 34 cycles and about 80% capacity. The 9 cell actually shows a full charge that's 105% of design capacity; it has 7 cycles on it.
T480 with T25 keyboard | T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T601F T9900·NVS 140m·LED AFFS UXGA
T420 IPS FHD | X220 IPS FHD | T61p·T61·43·42p|X220T·301·41T·24·23·22|G41|A31p·22m|i1200|TransNote
600|770Z|770|760XD|760EL|701C|755C

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Re: Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#10 Post by dr_st » Wed May 19, 2021 1:55 am

theterminator93 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 3:58 pm
For the T480, the removable 3 cell that came with it is from "Celxpert", and has 64 cycles and about 40% capacity (though it dies randomly). It is branded as a Lenovo but I suspect it may be counterfeit.
Check if it is warped like in the pics I showed earlier. Also you can find out pretty confidently if it's counterfeit or not by comparing the serial on the battery to what Vantage / Power Manager show.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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Re: Thinkpad 25: 6 months and a 6 cell battery later (PICS)

#11 Post by cadillacmike68 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:52 am

They really went through some lengths to fake that 61 battery!
600 600X
760LD FUBARd
T21 2647 T22 2647 1@ 1GHz SXGA+ 4 more; T23 2647 1@ 1.2GHz SXGA+ 3 more
T30 2366-88U 2GHz; 2366-83U 1.8G; 5@ 2366-LU0/66U; 2367-KU6 FUBARd
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T500 2
T530 W530

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