Thinkpadders, do NOT Rejoice, WEEP and/or DESPAIR!

[pianowizard]

The original idea for the Retro ThinkPad was quite different in this regard: Originally, it was supposed to have an "invisible" TouchPad. Which would mean a TouchPad without buttons or click functionality at all, only the Touch-part, completely seamlessly integrated into the rubbery palmrest.

Gee, yet another "brilliant" idea from Lenovo. Many cheap consumer laptops have such touchpads. I have tried a few and they are awful: every time I need to use it, I actually have to look for where the darn thing is.

Mimicking consumer-class garbage to "improve" business-class laptops, isn't that ridiculous.

[mydreamlaptop]

Some ideas building on other commenters' in David Hill's blog.

Highlights:
-15.7-inch 3840x2560 (3:2).
-The full PC keyboard. All of it.
-Ultrabay Numerical Keypad.
-All dedicated buttons. No more awkward Fn-key combos.
-Also, dedicated touchpad on/off button.

Yes?

[bhtooefr]

It's worth noting that a full PC layout is 23 U wide. (There's half a U that can be pulled out by bringing the sections closer together, and another half U that can be pulled out of the right side of the keyboard. I'd expect the first, not the second.)

At full size (19 mm per U), that's 437 mm wide. Taking .5 U out, that's 427.5 mm wide.

A 427.5 mm wide 16:10 display is 504.1 mm diagonal, or 19.85". Are you sure you want the FULL PC keyboard?

Now, I could be facetious, and assume you mean the full 5150 PC keyboard. That's 20 U wide, could be 19.75 U wide, and gives a numpad in the layout too (num lock switches between using it for arrows and using it for numbers - that's just how you did things on the 5150, 5160, and 5155). 375.25 mm wide, 442.5 mm diagonal, 17.42" diagonal, that's more sane.

And, to be completely serious, a full tenkeyless layout is 18.5 U, could be 18.25 U. 346.75 mm wide, 408.9 mm diagonal, 16.10" diagonal.

Still, not 15" unless you have a lot of bezel, or go to 16:9 (where it's 397.8 mm or 15.66" diagonal).

[mydreamlaptop]

Hi bhtooefr, the Number pad goes in the Ultrabay (retractable just like a DVD drive).
The laptop itself is then 18 U wide (342mm (13.5") keyboard, 355mm (14") including bezels)
So you could actually make this laptop only 342mm (13.5") wide if you eliminate the bezels but I left them in for durability.
(Edit: not sure what's going on, are you unable to view the image?)

[pianowizard]

http://s8.postimg.org/5po4j7foz/thinkpad024.png

It looks great, especially since I never use the numpad and so I would just toss it (or not buy it in the first place). I have always typed faster on the number row anyway. Not sure how many numpad users would like it though.

For those of you who have never seen a 3:2 screen, doesn't it look much taller than 16:9 or even 16:10? If you like tallscreens, don't settle for 16:10!

[bhtooefr]

OK, that, I kinda like, actually. However, it'd require a custom LCD - in 3:2, the only panels I'm aware of are the 10.8" 1920x1280 panel in the Surface 3, the 12.0" 2160x1440 panel in the Surface Pro 3, the 12.85" 2560x1700 (3:2ish) panel in the Chromebook Pixel, and the 20.0" 3840x2560 panel in the Panasonic Toughpad 4K.

I still prefer my concept of cramming a 13.3" 16:10 2560x1600 panel into a (2 mm wider) X201-sized chassis (small-bezeled ThinkPads were a thing in the past - X4x/X6x had 22 mm total bezel horizontally (246 mm LCD, 268 mm chassis), T2x/T30 had 17 mm total bezel horizontally (287 mm LCD, 304 mm chassis), and my idea would have 11 mm total bezel - aggressive, but doable), but that's pretty nice.

Granted, I suspect most people would prefer the layout that the 15" MBPR uses, with big speakers next to the keyboard. Either that, or the 15.6" 16:9 formula that many laptops nowadays follow, with a full numpad next to the keyboard (but that doesn't even fit in 15.4" 16:10, unless you make the numpad narrower, or pull some out of the main keyboard (which breaks it for Japanese layouts)).

[exTPfan]

There's a rumor that the Surface Pro 4 will include a model with a 14 inch 3:2 screen. Now that would make a nice laptop screen.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft- ... 754.0.html

[Utwig]

Please no more experimenting with keyboard. At one point I was using T42p without winkey, X61s with US short enter and winkey and USB keyboard with x10/x20 layout (big Del and Esc keys) at the same time. That has been enough variety to cause confusion. Also A21p had no forward/backward buttons and black enter key but had been otherwise equal to T4x layout

The best part of keyboard is that it's equal to all other keyboards. Since Win-key is getting more and more use now, I think we should either standardise on _60/_61 /_x00 or on x_10 / _x20 layout and stick to that.

I actually was carrying Thinkpad USB keyboard with me when I had to take IT exams or use other people's computers for a long time, so that I didin't have to switch to standard PC keyboard (same layout but different due to taller keys).

[Summilux]

http://s8.postimg.org/5po4j7foz/thinkpad024.png

It looks great, especially since I never use the numpad and so I would just toss it (or not buy it in the first place). I have always typed faster on the number row anyway. Not sure how many numpad users would like it though.

For those of you who have never seen a 3:2 screen, doesn't it look much taller than 16:9 or even 16:10? If you like tallscreens, don't settle for 16:10!

Looks sexy indeed! It would be a nice addition to the X/T-sized Classic machine.

[bhtooefr]

How about this (admittedly sloppy) photoshop?



That's my idea, should fit in a 297x210 mm footprint.

[brchan]

I'd like to see a modern 770 or a31p, but they are probably too chunky looking for most people. Amazing machines even today...

[Summilux]

How about this (admittedly sloppy) photoshop?

[img]

That's my idea, should fit in a 297x210 mm footprint.

The screen is a nice upgrade from the current X line. The additional real estate and slim borders are appealing.

The status LEDs are most welcome. The rightmost four of them should also be visible on the back of the lid like on my late T60.

I have a slight preference for enlarged Esc and Del keys but could definitely live with that keyboard. A slightly larger middle-click for the trackpoint would be more ergonomic (the one on your pic looks smaller than what I have on my X220).
I'm not fond of the logo and would prefer the on in the W92 posted above.

[bhtooefr]

I merely used David Hill's T92 concept's trackpoint buttons, and don't think I got them aligned properly (the top got cut off). Those would be the same as an X220 I think. I've not actually used that generation of TrackPoint button extensively, though, so I can't say how good it'd be. (Previous generations (the X2x/anything3x/4x, and the 6x-era buttons) are what I've used extensively.)

That W95 concept's logo is pretty nice actually, I agree - I just wanted to try my logo idea.

[bhtooefr]

Found elsewhere, the ThinkPad "Ultra Classic" 780ZXL+:

http://i.imgur.com/BZ4hQZi.png

[Norway Pad]

That made my day. My and I wife are still laughing.

[MrMaguire]

http://s8.postimg.org/5po4j7foz/thinkpad024.png

It looks great, especially since I never use the numpad and so I would just toss it (or not buy it in the first place). I have always typed faster on the number row anyway. Not sure how many numpad users would like it though.

For those of you who have never seen a 3:2 screen, doesn't it look much taller than 16:9 or even 16:10? If you like tallscreens, don't settle for 16:10!

I like it. My one complaint would be the switch for the TrackPad. I can imagine accidentally pressing it while using the TrackPoint, and that'd get annoying pretty quick.

[ajkula66]

Found elsewhere, the ThinkPad "Ultra Classic" 780ZXL+:

http://i.imgur.com/BZ4hQZi.png

I've literally spat my coffee...thankfully not on the laptop...

[jdrou]

Found elsewhere, the ThinkPad "Ultra Classic" 780ZXL+:

http://i.imgur.com/BZ4hQZi.png

"x2 SCSI" -- there was a time I'd have paid a lot to have that on a laptop.
True "classic" would have no USB ports at all, just 16-bit PCMCIA slot for expansion.

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

Some ideas building on other commenters' in David Hill's blog.

Highlights:
-15.7-inch 3840x2560 (3:2).
-The full PC keyboard. All of it.
-Ultrabay Numerical Keypad.
-All dedicated buttons. No more awkward Fn-key combos.
-Also, dedicated touchpad on/off button.

Yes?

The screen; yes, but rather 15" 2560x1700 so scaling problems aren't off the chart.

The full PC keyboard? Are you kidding? Complaints of off-centre alphanumeric keyboard incoming...

Utrabay numpad; sure, why not. They already had that in the past too.

All dedicated buttons; not going to happen, don't want it either. Somethings are just easier to keep the keyboard completely in finger's range. Like @$$! requires a combo with shift.

Dedicated touchpad on/off; how often would you need that?

Don't make silly demands. Just a *20 series with current hardware and 16:10 will do.

[Summilux]

David Hill's blog post has now passed the 3000 comments mark.

That doesn't bind him or Lenovo to any action, but it is yet another proof that interest in pre-*30 (aka Classic) Thinkpads hasn't died off, that there's a consensus on what made these machines desirable, and what the traditional user base persists in seeing as design choice failures on Lenovo's part.

[bgx]

sounds great for sure.
not sure what it means on their current sales though..

have been stuck on my X60s for a while. considered buying x201s as it seems the best thinkpad so far (ligher of all, acceptable 16:10, resolution and great keyboard/trackpoint), but very hard to get (and the TN screen sucks).

was considering X250, X1C 3rd, T450s.
A bit pricy considering i am not totally sold to the 16:9, the keyboard, etc... but at least it was a good step wrt the *40 serie...

Now, i am sure to wait for this classic thinkpad to go out.

my personal wishes:
1) 3:2 would be perfect (sadly, i dont believe in the return of 4:3) "3:2" sounds like future rather than going in the past, so I believe. 16:10 i could live with it, as long as the bezel is not super big (the bezel of the x250 is just awful. the X1C bezel is ok, but we can still fit a 16:10 or 3:2 screen inside without changing the form factor)
2) VGA and ethernet without adapter would be a big plus - the back could be bigger to accomodate and the front slimmer, that would be perfect. But i am afraid it wont happen.
3) non solder ram, 2 channels, exchangeable battery.
4)slim bezel around the screen (dell infiniscreen is perfect)
5) slim bezel around the keyboard (x40-x60 style).

[600X]

2) VGA and ethernet without adapter would be a big plus - the back could be bigger to accomodate and the front slimmer, that would be perfect. But i am afraid it wont happen.

VGA will not be possible anymore, as Intel and AMD are dropping the support for it.

[bgx]

i saw that skylake is suppose to retire vga.

but what does that mean exactly? not even possible to get vga throught DP adaptor as is possible today? they are going to drop the tmds?

what will happen with all the projector and all the vga cable out there?

it might be good to go to another standard (dp through usb C connector?) to be future proof, and dropping everything will create chaos for 2 years before everyone go on ship... but i am curious to see how it will work.

[bhtooefr]

Skylake integrated graphics will not output a VGA signal, only TMDS (DVI, HDMI) or DisplayPort protocols.

A VGA port can only carry analog RGB signals, and therefore won't really be a thing any more on Skylake platforms (unless a manufacturer puts a converter chip in).

A DVI port supports both analog RGB (in DVI-A or DVI-I) and TMDS (in DVI-D or DVI-I). A DVI to VGA adapter or a (very rare) DVI-A monitor simply tells the graphics controller to output a VGA signal on the DVI port, and that won't work on Skylake. A DVI-D (digital, TMDS) monitor is unaffected

An HDMI port can only carry TMDS signals, so nothing's changed there, it works exactly as it used to. An HDMI to VGA adapter will still work, because as far as the graphics controller's concerned, it's TMDS, not VGA.

DisplayPort can carry either TMDS or DisplayPort signals - a passive DisplayPort to DVI adapter tells the graphics controller to output a TMDS signal on the DisplayPort, that'll work as it used to. A DisplayPort monitor will obviously work as it used to, too. And, a DisplayPort to VGA adapter looks like a DisplayPort monitor to the controller, and that will also work as it used to.

Summary: VGA no, DVI to VGA no, HDMI to VGA yes, DisplayPort to VGA yes.

[pianowizard]

Don't make silly demands. Just a *20 series with current hardware and 16:10 will do.

Why is it silly to petition for a 3:2 screen? There are already two laptop-sized 3:2 panels to pick from: 12.0" 2160x1400 made for the Surface Pro 3, and 12.85" 2560x1700 made for the Chromebook Pixel. And like exTPfan said above, there might be a 14.0" 3:2 panel soon.

There aren't many more laptop-sized 16:10 panels out there, so if asking for 3:2 is silly, asking for 16:10 is just a little less silly.

16:10 is noticeably taller than 16:9 and is therefore more useful for text-based work, but it's still a fairly small difference. 3:2 would be a significantly better upgrade.

4:3) "3:2" sounds like future rather than going in the past, so I believe.

I agree, but ironically, for standard laptops, 3:2 (the 15.2" Powerbook G4) predates 16:10. Some handheld PCs such as Toshiba's Librettos and Sony's Picturebooks had 16:10 and other wider aspect ratios before the Powerbook G4, but the G4 was the first standard laptop to have a widescreen.

[bgx]

Skylake integrated graphics will not output a VGA signal, only TMDS (DVI, HDMI) or DisplayPort protocols.

A VGA port can only carry analog RGB signals, and therefore won't really be a thing any more on Skylake platforms (unless a manufacturer puts a converter chip in).

A DVI port supports both analog RGB (in DVI-A or DVI-I) and TMDS (in DVI-D or DVI-I). A DVI to VGA adapter or a (very rare) DVI-A monitor simply tells the graphics controller to output a VGA signal on the DVI port, and that won't work on Skylake. A DVI-D (digital, TMDS) monitor is unaffected

An HDMI port can only carry TMDS signals, so nothing's changed there, it works exactly as it used to. An HDMI to VGA adapter will still work, because as far as the graphics controller's concerned, it's TMDS, not VGA.

DisplayPort can carry either TMDS or DisplayPort signals - a passive DisplayPort to DVI adapter tells the graphics controller to output a TMDS signal on the DisplayPort, that'll work as it used to. A DisplayPort monitor will obviously work as it used to, too. And, a DisplayPort to VGA adapter looks like a DisplayPort monitor to the controller, and that will also work as it used to.

Summary: VGA no, DVI to VGA no, HDMI to VGA yes, DisplayPort to VGA yes.

thanks for the great explanations.

so it probably going to go more to the adaptor for everyone side than anything (at least in the begining, till a standard impose itself - so far, hdmi and DP cancel each other strength - hope we can have usb C to dP (that's a done deal) and mor eimportantly usb C to hdmi - everyone switch to usb C for everything and then end of adaptor), and my major reason not to take a carbon will be gone as no new laptop will have a vga adaptor anyway (ethernet is nice, but it is less and less useful lets face it).

[bhtooefr]

Actually, no, 16:10 predated 3:2 on laptops, I think, anyway - there may've been something not PC compatible that did 3:2, like maybe a Mac clone laptop (512 / 342 is 3:2ish). Edit: Nope, the Mac clones went 640x400 instead.

640x400 was rather common on laptops in the 1988-1990 era. (It didn't last long because then VGA took off, though. And, a lot of those 640x400 laptops ran 4:3 displays (with non-square pixels), but some (the Toshiba T1000SE comes to mind) did run 16:10.)

Oh, and also, DVI to HDMI adapters and HDMI to DVI adapters basically always work (at single-link DVI speeds), because they're the same protocol (but with different speed limits and links, so on big (bigger than 1920x1200) LCDs, there may be problems). And, where I say "DisplayPort to DVI", DisplayPort to HDMI is the same thing. Also, there's both passive and active DisplayPort to DVI/HDMI adapters - the passive ones can only go up to 1920x1200 typically, as they're limited to single-link DVI speed, and if you want to go faster, you need an active adapter (which speaks DisplayPort and then sends either dual-link DVI or faster HDMI to your monitor).

[Sleepy664]

Disclaimer: W520 is the first ThinkPad I own. I bought it used (because I'm cheap) and I'm not in a market for a new laptop (because I'm cheap ). I don't have a stash of old ThinkPads and parts in my basement but I always liked ThinkPads...so you could call me the average user with a ThinkPad affinity.

Just a few random thoughts I have:

1) Keyboard: I would keep keyboard the same across all "Thinkpad Classic" models (I hope there won't be only one...). Only one SKU is necessary and that would keep the costs down. Hypothetical 17" models would get the same keyboard + additional numpad...like on a W700/701 (neat idea, BTW). I believe I'm not the only one who can not stand the off-center keyboards. And please, make the keyboard more resistant so it doesn't become shiny after six months of use.

2) Construction - external: Get rid of all plastic covers. When you hold both EliteBook and ThinkPad in your hands, guess which one feels the cheaper and which flexes the most? Old ThinkPads often had their covers made of magnesium and it would be nice to have it back. Palmrest should be made without the large hole where the keyboard goes – that would eliminate keyboard flex (see how it is done on Dell M4800: http://img2.parts-people.com/products/30X9Va.JPG). Powerful ThinkLight is a must.

3) Construction - internal: It is about time to get two separate coolers for GPU and CPU. No more soldering RAM modules. No more soldering of the GPU either – that is why MXM has been invented. Put all USB connectors on separate boards so in case you break one, you don't have to replace the whole motherboard. Structural magnesium covers would also render the rollcage unnecessary, probably leaving more space inside for...let's say some JBL speakers from the Y series – there is no reason a business class notebook should sound badly.

[600X]

probably leaving more space inside for...let's say some JBL speakers from the Y series – there is no reason a business class notebook should sound badly.

I agree and I have pledged for this before. However, I think lenovo should partner with Dynaudio instead, because they have delivered some impressive results on MSI notebooks. But then of course, pretty much anything would be better than what ThinkPads currently have.

[bit_twiddler]

2) Construction - external: Get rid of all plastic covers. When you hold both EliteBook and ThinkPad in your hands, guess which one feels the cheaper and which flexes the most? Old ThinkPads often had their covers made of magnesium and it would be nice to have it back. Palmrest should be made without the large hole where the keyboard goes – that would eliminate keyboard flex (see how it is done on Dell M4800: http://img2.parts-people.com/products/30X9Va.JPG). Powerful ThinkLight is a must.

Dell made a decision with their workstation-class laptops (if there really is such
a thing) to go for structural integrity, whereas Lenovo and Toshiba decided to go
for lighter weight. The same goes for different fans for the CPU and GPU.

Personally, I would prefer that Lenovo stay in the light weight category and just find
incremental ways to improve their products (starting with going back to the W510/W520
keyboard and bringing back 16:10, of course.)