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T25-Retro specific matters only
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PandorasThinkpad
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#481 Post by PandorasThinkpad » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:56 am

@ dr_st: I agree....and i hope this
2) produce the model with the features that have been deemed the most popular in the surveys - many are bound to end up disappointed, but the model may still sell well enough to justify producing more variants down the road
will happen....when the first model....they are going to launch...will not going to be something for me...

So let's wait and see and hope...

Kindly,

PAnDorA
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#482 Post by bgx » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:18 am

If this product sees the light of day (still uncertain), it will have 7 row keyboard. Else i agree with you there is no point, but it was very very clear from the vote, it was stated by David. I think we have no fear to have on that one.

It may or may not have chicklet keyboard, but with 7 rows and the comment i read (i didnt really use the chicklet keyboard more than a 5min try), it is not a problem and may actually even improve the typing experience, as long as they key travel is big enough - but I also feel that it is pretty clear what thinkpaders are asking is NOT the slimmest possible machine, and everyone can live with a not super slim machine as long as it has some counterpart (no throttling, more servicability/repairability/accessibility, full ports, more key travel). The X301 reference is a good indication, as it had all this checked.

On aspect ratio, i also think we are 99% safe that we will not see a 16/9 screen.
98% we will see a 16/10; which is still better.


To sum up, i strongly believe what emerged pretty clearly and will be done (if this machine sees the light of day):
-7 row
-no 16/9 (most probably 16/10)
-not the slimmest machine ever
-dedicated trackpoint buttons

that will be a good start, and a machine i will buy with high probability to replace my X60.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#483 Post by lead_org » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:58 pm

i had look at the blog that is about to be released. The result looks very interesting, in terms of what people prefer about the hinges and the logo.
Current ThinkPad: T430u, T430s, X1 Carbon, X1, X230t, X220t, X230, X220, X201t, W520, W701ds, T500, T420 and many more

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#484 Post by murak » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:48 pm

lead_org wrote:i had look at the blog that is about to be released. The result looks very interesting, in terms of what people prefer about the hinges and the logo.
Tease tease :P

So, any word on when this blog post will be.. posted? My F5 key is getting worn :D
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#485 Post by bgx » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:07 am

Guess it will be in 1 hour like when the other post were releashed...

On a side note, the Skylake 28W 2C with iris pro graphic + 64MB of cache will be released only in Q1 2016, while the 15W will be realeased in september.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#486 Post by Utwig » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:31 am

I hope we don't get drop down hinges.

On a side not, after less than 2 years of use screen frame on T540p has started to open up on the side near right hinge.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#487 Post by lead_org » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:57 am

i got a message saying the blog is released on Monday.
Current ThinkPad: T430u, T430s, X1 Carbon, X1, X230t, X220t, X230, X220, X201t, W520, W701ds, T500, T420 and many more

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#488 Post by Summilux » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:25 pm

bgx wrote:I think we have no fear to have on that one.

It may or may not have chicklet keyboard, but
There's no "but": it's an instant drop. Project discarded. 6 rows, 7 rows, 6 million rows, it's all the same rubbish as long as it doesn't feature classic keys.

At least that's my opinion and that of many others.


And in other news:
Lenovo plans to lay off over 3000 employees and put Motorola in charge of mobile

Lenovo is quickly becoming part of the long list of legendary brands struggling for profits in today's vast tech branch. The Chinese giant is far from sinking, but both its PC and smartphone businesses haven't been doing well recently and the latest fiscal report from Q1 2015 paints a gloomy picture.
(Source)

Well, well, well... what were we saying about Lenovo's failed Apple-copying strategy? And about D. Hill's timely backpedalling from the post-*20 "innovations"? :twisted:
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#489 Post by Bibin » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:14 pm

Summilux wrote:
bgx wrote:I think we have no fear to have on that one.

It may or may not have chicklet keyboard, but
There's no "but": it's an instant drop. Project discarded. 6 rows, 7 rows, 6 million rows, it's all the same rubbish as long as it doesn't feature classic keys.

At least that's my opinion and that of many others.
I agree as well. Both the layout and the key size/shape are important to me. Since David Hill's very first mockup took cues from the X30* including the keyboard (more or less) I expect it will be like the X220/T420/etc keyboard.

:%s/expect/hope
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#490 Post by jcvjcvjcvjcv » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm

Summilux wrote:
bgx wrote:I think we have no fear to have on that one.

It may or may not have chicklet keyboard, but
There's no "but": it's an instant drop. Project discarded. 6 rows, 7 rows, 6 million rows, it's all the same rubbish as long as it doesn't feature classic keys.

At least that's my opinion and that of many others.
7 row, T420-like keyboard; off the shelf design; zero "newness" costs and done.
Summilux wrote: And in other news:
Lenovo plans to lay off over 3000 employees and put Motorola in charge of mobile

Lenovo is quickly becoming part of the long list of legendary brands struggling for profits in today's vast tech branch. The Chinese giant is far from sinking, but both its PC and smartphone businesses haven't been doing well recently and the latest fiscal report from Q1 2015 paints a gloomy picture.
(Source)

Well, well, well... what were we saying about Lenovo's failed Apple-copying strategy? And about D. Hill's timely backpedalling from the post-*20 "innovations"? :twisted:
I hope they fire those behind dropping 16:10, those behind dropping the trackpoint buttons and those behind the 6 row keyboard. And please fire Gavin O'Hara. Just his author ship of that certain blogpost should be enough reason to fire him w/o compensation package or anything of that kind. I guess they could also fire the guy that thought dropping eSata was cool.

Fire a bunch of those, revert their actions and end up where you were a few years ago; with better products.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#491 Post by JaneL » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:10 pm

I like Gavin O'Hara despite that blog post.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#492 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:18 pm

JaneL wrote:I like Gavin O'Hara despite that blog post.
You're a better human being than I'll ever be... :jhem:
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#493 Post by fb1996 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:11 am

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:I guess they could also fire the guy that thought dropping eSata was cool.
eSATA is pretty much dead - why should they keep it?
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#494 Post by bgx » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:06 am

Summilux wrote:
bgx wrote:I think we have no fear to have on that one.

It may or may not have chicklet keyboard, but
There's no "but": it's an instant drop. Project discarded. 6 rows, 7 rows, 6 million rows, it's all the same rubbish as long as it doesn't feature classic keys.
Care to elaborate?
Again, i have been using primarily classic keys for the last 11 years, and been using chicklet for only 5 min of test on a friend's machine. I dont have any strong opinion about it.

I read reviews which were fair (pointing out the flaws the TP had), but they say the chicklet style of keyboard help them reduce the number of mistype cause the keys where not so close of one another (and i still find myself mystyping quite abit on my X60s - surely, the keyboard is not full size - that may play a role).

That's why i would not feel betrayed if it was chicklet (grandted the 7 row layout and reasonable course/size). Of course, classic keys would be fine for me as well. I d like to know what's your experience with chicklet and why u dispise them. I may or may not agree with you, i d just like to understand.

esata was nice back then, but with usb3 and/or TB3, there is no point now.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#495 Post by fb1996 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:20 am

By the way, the new blog is released on Monday:
#retrothinkpad Look for a new blog about the retro ThinkPad concept Monday morning at 7:00 ET.
https://twitter.com/dwhilldesign/status ... 6021906432
Yoga 260

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#496 Post by jcvjcvjcvjcv » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:55 am

fb1996 wrote:
jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:I guess they could also fire the guy that thought dropping eSata was cool.
eSATA is pretty much dead - why should they keep it?
Because still twice as fast as USB 3.0 for small files transfer. (That's with HDD's!) Makes 0 sense to leave SATA lanes from the chipset unused and use an externa SATA drive on a highly inefficient USB port.

Takes no space either; the EUHP like on the W520 can be used as USB just as well;
Image

Dell and HP still have it.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#497 Post by bgx » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:56 pm

not sure of the test with e sata, but with proper drivers and USB 3.1, the random read seems good enough to me.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/19 ... tests-show

not sure what you are comparing too. Withthe vanila driver, usb 3.0 is probably not good at driving an external drive for a lot of access to small files, but in this case, just get good drivers.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#498 Post by Ibthink » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:13 pm

As for newer models (W540/W541/P50), there is Thunderbolt, which is much faster and far more capable.

Sure, that's still not very nice if you already have eSATA HDDs....but nobody can deny that this standard never really was successful, due to the huge success of USB 3.0.
jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:Dell and HP still have it.
Dell does, but HP dropped eSATA with their ZBook models in 2013. I guess Dell will drop it this year, but we will see about that...HP only has one on their docks.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#499 Post by Summilux » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:45 am

bgx wrote: Care to elaborate?
Again, i have been using primarily classic keys for the last 11 years, and been using chicklet for only 5 min of test on a friend's machine. I dont have any strong opinion about it.

I read reviews which were fair (pointing out the flaws the TP had), but they say the chicklet style of keyboard help them reduce the number of mistype cause the keys where not so close of one another (and i still find myself mystyping quite abit on my X60s - surely, the keyboard is not full size - that may play a role).

That's why i would not feel betrayed if it was chicklet (grandted the 7 row layout and reasonable course/size). Of course, classic keys would be fine for me as well. I d like to know what's your experience with chicklet and why u dispise them. I may or may not agree with you, i d just like to understand.

esata was nice back then, but with usb3 and/or TB3, there is no point now.
The subject's been beaten to death but in a nutshell, chicklets don't give you the same feel as classics.

Whilst they may reduce the mistypings, in return, they hamper the fluidity of moving your fingers around the layout. That's my experience and that's unlikely to be alleviated anytime soon, since it's inherent to the chicklets design.

There was also the horrible key travel, but chicklet users say this particular pain point has been dealt with.

Chicklets just aren't and cannot be the same.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#500 Post by lead_org » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:02 pm

Lenovo can add anything you want on the retro thinkpad, provided that enough people are interested in the same features.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#501 Post by Systematician » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:01 am

Really? Anyone with me on large, flat-surfaced arrow keys, then?

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#502 Post by Temetka » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:07 am

I think my T410 is pretty much perfect. Here's my wishlist

Backlit classic keyboard
4xUSB 3 (duh) Dual Thinklights - I think that looks awesome
14.1" 16:10 IPS/AFFS LCD with 95% Adobe RGB
Dual mSATA ports
External 9-Cell battery
Black rubberized paint like were used to
Build quality like my T410 or old 770.

My T410 doesn't sqeek, crack, or anything. It just works. Day in and day out.

As long as I can get parts for this machine, I will use it. Take your 16:9 LCD's and shove 'em.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#503 Post by coolcat37 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:44 am

fb1996 wrote:By the way, the new blog is released on Monday:
#retrothinkpad Look for a new blog about the retro ThinkPad concept Monday morning at 7:00 ET.
https://twitter.com/dwhilldesign/status ... 6021906432
New content here : http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-th ... -to-think/
Is "new blog" a synonym for "new blogpost" nowadays?
Btw nothing controversial or wow about the new blogpost. Basically it's give us more time.
Bit of an anti-climax imo

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#504 Post by bhtooefr » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:55 am

The split in display closure methods is interesting. (It's worth noting that I voted for latchless magnetic closure, for what it's worth - I quite like it from my actual use of it on non-Lenovo machines.)

Also, interesting that the status quo logo got a majority. I actually liked the ThinkPad, although it would've been better as ThinkPad to get the homage right. I also liked the underlined logo that was posted elsewhere, but that wasn't used.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#505 Post by bgx » Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:17 pm

as i said on the blog post, and already got 9 approval, is that if the big survey at least allow to put back 7 row and taller screen on all the X/W/T serie, we would have helped restablished some good pont in TP and made them better

90% of the people who voted agreed with that... and there were 13.000 of them.

I think that simple message could be heard.

of course i d like more sturdiness, more servicability, more leds, etc, but it would be already a good part of the road done.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#506 Post by bgx » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:07 pm

david answered that, which makes me hopeful:

"Lenard, Thanks for the feedback. I can assure you that the ThinkPad team is evaluating all the comments in terms of both this project and the bigger picture."

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#507 Post by micrex22 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:21 pm

bhtooefr wrote:The split in display closure methods is interesting. (It's worth noting that I voted for latchless magnetic closure, for what it's worth - I quite like it from my actual use of it on non-Lenovo machines.)

Also, interesting that the status quo logo got a majority. I actually liked the ThinkPad, although it would've been better as ThinkPad to get the homage right. I also liked the underlined logo that was posted elsewhere, but that wasn't used.
I mildly prefer the latches just because they ensure the lid stays closed no matter what (and the feeling of de-latching the lid). I could live with magnet latches though. I agree on the logo, the 'Pad' should have been in RGB.

What's interesting is David's surprise at the preference of TrackPoint cap. The "soft rim" caps are favoured by most since they provide the best accuracy. And everyone else prefers "cat's tongue", I get shivers every time I use one.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#508 Post by theterminator93 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:28 pm

As far as trackpoint caps.. just include all three that way the end user can decide which they prefer - or if they're a new TP user they can try all three and decide for themselves which they prefer. Over half the people who voted want either the textured dome OR all three.

I'm neutral on the logo - I'm 50% towards the current style and 50% towards one of the colored styles with the colored "pad" being the most preferred out of all the colored variety - but the problem is that no single colored variety gets a greater preference than the current one - hence my vote.

Definitely prefer the latch over the magnetic clasp, but it's not a major issue for me. I like the security to know the lid will STAY closed if I put the laptop somewhere for transport.

Hopefully the team can draw some overall conclusions about how to proceed next fairly quickly - at least before the target market has had a chance to change its mind. :)
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#509 Post by lophiomys » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:36 pm

They just try to distract you with side topics as logo color and trackpoint caps.

The really hot topics are:

Form Factor ... 4:3 (SCNR)
robust Clam Shell with latches
matte screen, high DPI
classic 7 row keyboard (the true classic is without Windows Keys)

quality rubber coating
Think lights
build quality and serviceability

data security!!!
coreboot
Linux

...
Lophiomys
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#510 Post by calvinb » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:58 pm

Your post has some problems.

>Form Factor ... 4:3 (SCNR)

It's been stated that no manufacturer makes 4:3 screens with the right properties - 3:2 is a better, more supported option, but you 4:3 zealots screwed up the poll and now you have widescreen.

>classic 7 row keyboard (the true classic is without Windows Keys)

On Windows *and* UNIX desktops, they're extremely useful shortcut keys.

> data security!!!

What are you implying with this?

>Linux

You can always install it yourself, and you'd complain about the default distro anyways.
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