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Thinkpadders, do NOT Rejoice, WEEP and/or DESPAIR!

T25-Retro specific matters only
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coolcat37
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#511 Post by coolcat37 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:45 pm

calvinb wrote:Your post has some problems.

>Form Factor ... 4:3 (SCNR)

It's been stated that no manufacturer makes 4:3 screens with the right properties - 3:2 is a better, more supported option, but you 4:3 zealots screwed up the poll and now you have widescreen.
Excuse me, us "zealots screwed up the poll"? Kindly take that back would you. Instead of pointing fingers, why not ask yourself why 4:3 was even included, if lenovo has no desire to implement it? That would probably give a glimpse in their tactics, wouldn't it ?

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#512 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:52 pm

calvinb wrote: It's been stated that no manufacturer makes 4:3 screens with the right properties - 3:2 is a better, more supported option, but you 4:3 zealots screwed up the poll and now you have widescreen.
Nope.

If the 4:3 aspect ratio LCDs were really made of inobtanium, they shouldn't have been offered as an option in the first place. This was done on purpose to split the vote in order for 16:10 to win.
> data security!!!

What are you implying with this?
Superfish and the recent BIOS worm, maybe? :roll:
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#513 Post by Bibin » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:46 pm

calvinb wrote:>Linux

You can always install it yourself, and you'd complain about the default distro anyways.
This is completely true. As a Linux user, like many others I wouldn't want to use a pre-installed distro, especially not Ubuntu. The OEM windows license is so cheap you might as well just take it with the computer and wipe over it if you don't like it.
Give your T43/T43p/R52/X41 the SATA it deserves! http://mikejmoffitt.com/sata

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#514 Post by lead_org » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:46 pm

4:3 screens are available, but the cost of using them is around 500 USD per panel at the time of manufacturing, and for warranty purpose Lenovo need also to keep a few in inventory. Lenovo has keep the price of the ThinkPad Retro reasonable and not make it another ThinkPad Reserve edition.
Current ThinkPad: T430u, T430s, X1 Carbon, X1, X230t, X220t, X230, X220, X201t, W520, W701ds, T500, T420 and many more

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#515 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:51 pm

lead_org wrote:4:3 screens are available, but the cost of using them is around 500 USD per panel at the time of manufacturing, and for warranty purpose Lenovo need also to keep a few in inventory. Lenovo has keep the price of the ThinkPad Retro reasonable and not make it another ThinkPad Reserve edition.
I'd be more than happy to pay $600-700 for a *proper* 15" or larger 4:3 IPS screen...not for a 12" though.

With that being said, upgrade cost of roughly $700 per screen is approaching DC territory so the panel would have to be of the similar quality...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#516 Post by hhhd1 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:19 pm

ajkula66 wrote: the recent BIOS worm
:o :o

First time reading about this, I am out of words ...
===

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#517 Post by QWERTY Andreas » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:45 am

ajkula66 wrote: Nope.

If the 4:3 aspect ratio LCDs were really made of inobtanium, they shouldn't have been offered as an option in the first place. This was done on purpose to split the vote in order for 16:10 to win.
They probably included it, because people Wood go crazy if they didn't. The fact that those people didnt read the description and voted for 3:2 instead, is their own fault.
ajkula66 wrote:
Superfish and the recent BIOS worm, maybe? :roll:
Because that was totally in the thinkpad line, oh wait...
Thinkpad W500 (2.53 GHz P8700, 4 GB RAM, FireGL V5700, WUXGA)
Thinkpad T61F 14" (2.53 GHz QX9300, 6 GB RAM, Quadro FX570m 256 MB, SXGA). Advanced dock with AMD Radeon HD7750
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#518 Post by ajkula66 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:08 am

QWERTY Andreas wrote:

Because that was totally in the thinkpad line, oh wait...
Not within the ThinkPad line, but on Lenovo's laptop offerings nevertheless. Twice in less than six months. That might not be a reason for concern in your book but it most certainly is in mine.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

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ansible212
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#519 Post by ansible212 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:29 am

micrex22 wrote:I mildly prefer the latches just because they ensure the lid stays closed no matter what (and the feeling of de-latching the lid). I could live with magnet latches though. I agree on the logo, the 'Pad' should have been in RGB.
I prefer the magnetic catch on my X220 to the latch on my X200s, partly because it is one less mechanical component to break and partly because it's elegant. The downside is that the force with which the lid snaps shut on the X220 has resulted in the corners of the screen bezel cracking and breaking off...

On the logo, I prefer the current logo to the alternatives. A coloured logo would be anachronistic.

Whilst on the subject, my ideal 'retro' ThinkPad would be an updated X220, with no UltraNav, 2 or more USB 3.0 and 16:10 wide gamut IPS, keeping the other salient features (7 row keyboard, dual DIMMs, Thinklight, removable battery, docking station support etc).

I like the smaller form factor and prefer 16:10 (see above), but one area the X220 scores over the X200s is the wider surround around the keyboard and thinner screen bezel. It would be interesting to see if a 16:10 13" screen could be accommodated (if they exist), which would have the additional benefit of increasing the depth of the palmrest.

Finally to totally contradict my preference for 16:10, I can live with 16:9 on an X-series as it would spend most of it's time for 'serious' work docked (my X220 drives two 24" 16:10 monitors), and when out and about I want portability and 16:9 does offer more of that compared to 16:10.
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X200s : WXGA : C2D SL9600 : 4GB : 256GB Samsung 830 : Ultrabase

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#520 Post by lophiomys » Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:56 am

lead_org wrote:4:3 screens are available, but the cost of using them is around 500 USD per panel at the time of manufacturing, and for warranty purpose Lenovo need also to keep a few in inventory. Lenovo has keep the price of the ThinkPad Retro reasonable and not make it another ThinkPad Reserve edition.
I am ready to spend extra money for a best quality Classic Thinkpad with a brilliant matte 15inch 4:3 screen ... i.e. a T50.

Of course Lenovo has to keep the price acceptable, and Lenovo also has to factor in the positive advertisement value, such a Classic Thinkpad would yield them. That would practically sell by itself, no Formula 1- or TV-advertisement would be necessary. In the end Lenovo would save a lot of money.

Imagine some smart managers from Apple, HP or Dell observing this discussion, and with the the intend to skim off this premium marked would release a quality black laptop with a matte 4:3 high DPI screen, classic keyboard, a good trackpoint, etc. - this is not rocket science in the 21st century, it is just a decision, if you want to do it.
Acting swiftly on this matter would be the right thing IMHO.
Lophiomys
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#521 Post by bgx » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:06 am

"black laptop", seriously, if they make the perfect thinkpad in white, i would still buy it.

concerning trackpoint, that is the place where it is hard for anyone but lenovo to do the perfect one, as the caps are one of the reason why the trackpoint is so good. All the other trackpoints i ve used (dell, hp,...) are garbage in comparison.

4/3 sure they can do it.

better layout keyboard, they can do it easily, but better feel keyboard, also that's not that easy if you are not lenovo...

So all in all, i think there is more chance lenovo does somethign right (a perfect 1 off or a complete line with better features: kboard and screen being the most important features - and again, that is the easy thing to do).

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#522 Post by bgx » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:08 am

Lead_org, u quote 500 for a 4:3 screen. I guess it would be in the 14" area.

do you know how much would be a 16:10 14"? a 16:9 14"? with good DPI of course.

I guess around 200 and 150...

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#523 Post by hhhd1 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:30 pm

I hope that this laptop would be light weight, I do not care too much about thickness, it wouldn't matter that much the few extra mm if it will be in a bag anyway.
===

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#524 Post by brchan » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:56 pm

Overall, if we see the return of a classic 7 row keyboard (chiclet or not), 16:10 screen, and good build quality, this would already be a big step in the right direction. Judging by Lenovo's responses, this seems fairly certain. Clamshell design, thinklight, indicator lights, latches, and X300/X301 build quality would be even better, but those may or may not be in the final design (if the model is built).
Current Thinkpads: W530 (functional classic keyboard mod), X301, T61, T60, T43, A31p, T23, 600X, 770
Other: mk5 Toughbook cf-19, mk1 Toughbook cf-53

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#525 Post by coolcat37 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:45 pm

lophiomys wrote: I am ready to spend extra money for a best quality Classic Thinkpad with a brilliant matte 15inch 4:3 screen ... i.e. a T50.

&

Acting swiftly on this matter would be the right thing IMHO.
Indeed

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#526 Post by Easy Wind » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:40 am

ajkula66 wrote:
calvinb wrote: Superfish and the recent BIOS worm, maybe? :roll:
I'm surprised I am not finding much talk on this site about this latest BIOS/rootkit deal?? -->

http://www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-roo ... e-deleted/
T42 (type 2373)
T43 (type 2668) x2
T60 (type 2007)

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#527 Post by bgx » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:07 am

we dont discuss it here may be because : "Business machines, such as Think-branded PCs, are not affected."

Easy Wind
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#528 Post by Easy Wind » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:17 am

really?

A different Lenovo link is posting a lot of affected laptops:

http://news.lenovo.com/article_display. ... le_id=2013

Lenovo Notebook

Flex 2 Pro 15 (Broadwell)
Flex 2 Pro 15 (Haswell)
Flex 3 1120
Flex 3 1470/1570
G40-80/G50-80/G50-80 Touch
S41-70/U41-70
S435/M40-35
V3000
Y40-80
Yoga 3 11
Yoga 3 14
Z41-70/Z51-70
Z70-80/G70-80
T42 (type 2373)
T43 (type 2668) x2
T60 (type 2007)

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#529 Post by bgx » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:22 am

doesnt see anythinkpad here, even the non classical ones.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#530 Post by JaneL » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:23 am

Easy Wind wrote:really?

A different Lenovo link is posting a lot of affected laptops:

http://news.lenovo.com/article_display. ... le_id=2013
And, still, no ThinkPads in that that list.
Jane
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#531 Post by brchan » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:26 am

So it seems the 'real' thinkpads (if you can call them that today) are not affected: T/W/X series. Even if this is the case, it makes buying anything from Lenovo uneasy. Who knows, maybe there is spyware in newer thinkpads that is buried much more deep and better hidden on their business models.
Current Thinkpads: W530 (functional classic keyboard mod), X301, T61, T60, T43, A31p, T23, 600X, 770
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#532 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:59 am

JaneL wrote:
And, still, no ThinkPads in that that list.
True.

Having said that, it was still a shady move on Lenovo's part and makes one wonder what "bugs" - not necessarily as easy to detect as this one or Superfish - might be shipped within their business-grade offerings, now or in the future.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#533 Post by rambo47 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:47 am

I could get used to any screen size/geometry, with the exception of really small screens (<12") or those really weird short & wide screens on some old ultrabooks.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#534 Post by bhtooefr » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:49 am

brchan wrote:So it seems the 'real' thinkpads (if you can call them that today) are not affected: T/W/X series. Even if this is the case, it makes buying anything from Lenovo uneasy. Who knows, maybe there is spyware in newer thinkpads that is buried much more deep and better hidden on their business models.
The Yogas that are mentioned are Lenovo Yogas (consumer models), not ThinkPad Yogas, for what it's worth.
Current: X201 (i5-540M, 8 GiB, 160 GB), 365XD (120 MHz, 72 MiB, 6.4 GB, 4x CD-ROM, 10.4" TFT)
Past: T61p 15.0" QXGA, T60p 15.0" QXGA, X61 Tablet SXGA+, R51e 14.1" XGA, X21

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#535 Post by Easy Wind » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:55 am

was just going to post about the Yogas. I don't use (or rarely see) them myself but thought this may have been brought up on that particular page --> http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=72

If not and they aren't, then disregard any of my posts
:roll:
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T43 (type 2668) x2
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#536 Post by JaneL » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:57 pm

ajkula66 wrote:True.

Having said that, it was still a shady move on Lenovo's part and makes one wonder what "bugs" - not necessarily as easy to detect as this one or Superfish - might be shipped within their business-grade offerings, now or in the future.
Well, I never said they weren't thick-headed about stuff like this.
Jane
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#537 Post by rambo47 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:09 pm

JaneL wrote:
Easy Wind wrote:really?

A different Lenovo link is posting a lot of affected laptops:

http://news.lenovo.com/article_display. ... le_id=2013
And, still, no ThinkPads in that that list.
Nor my Yoga 3 Pro. I'll say it: "This shady crap never happened on IBM's watch." There.

I think the Yoga is popular with the education market. Seton Hall University issues them every two years to all students. My son's Yoga is the S1 Edge and it's a pretty good model for standard university issue, especially for a general business student. Maybe I'd expect more for Computer Science majors, but for banging out quick 5-page papers in English or Econ it's just fine.
- - - - -
Yoga 3 Pro, 13.3" touchscreen, CoreM 5Y70 @ 1.2GHz, 8GB RAM, Intel Broadwell-U Integrated Graphics, Linux Mint 17.3 (64-bit)
ThinkPad W500, 15.4" WSXGA+, T9400 @ 2.53 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 / Intel GMA 4500MHD, Windows 10 (64-bit)

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#538 Post by jcvjcvjcvjcv » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:49 pm

bgx wrote:not sure of the test with e sata, but with proper drivers and USB 3.1, the random read seems good enough to me.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/19 ... tests-show

not sure what you are comparing too. Withthe vanila driver, usb 3.0 is probably not good at driving an external drive for a lot of access to small files, but in this case, just get good drivers.
You don't have to test anything special with eSata. eSata is as fast as Sata, so for any SATA device, eSata is by logic the fastest way to connect it externally. No reason to settle for a buggy *new* port with crappy drivers that then gives half the performance at double the CPU load while the port that does it all better is already there in the chipset.
Ibthink wrote:As for newer models (W540/W541/P50), there is Thunderbolt, which is much faster and far more capable.

Sure, that's still not very nice if you already have eSATA HDDs....but nobody can deny that this standard never really was successful, due to the huge success of USB 3.0.
jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:Dell and HP still have it.
Dell does, but HP dropped eSATA with their ZBook models in 2013. I guess Dell will drop it this year, but we will see about that...HP only has one on their docks.
Lol, eSata was there a looong time before USB 3.0 arrived. I'd been making backups over eSata with an average of 75 MB/s four years before any USB 3.0 appeared in the wild...

The reason why it wasn't successful is because some idiots implemented it the wrong way in most cases and motherboards tend to default to settings where it's not hot-swappable. Combine that with general user stupidity and the total absence of marketing... and voila. The fact they made it non-powered at first was a big mistake too. That way it was not as user friendly for 2.5" drives.
W520
T61

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#539 Post by Dekks » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:42 am

Easy Wind wrote:I'm surprised I am not finding much talk on this site about this latest BIOS/rootkit deal?? -->

http://www.zdnet.com/article/lenovo-roo ... e-deleted/
Its not a worm/rootkit, its just a BIOS security feature that Lenovo as usual unleashed their sub par programmers to create some nightmare dreamed up by some marketing droid.

??? why does n-i-g-h-t-mare come out as Overused???
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#540 Post by Puppy » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:49 am

I haven't read this long thread from top to bottom, so is there any information when it can be available (if ever) ? My X220 is going to be out of extended warranty in April 2016. I am unable to choose anything from current Lenovo production, T450s is probably the least unacceptable one but there are design issues (CPU whine etc.) that can not be fixed other than replace it over and over. No Windows 10 interest yet. Currently my idea is to build a microtower PC to have something up to date and warranty covered and use the X220 until it dies as a second/mobile/spare machine. Most of the time I use the X220 docked anyway.
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